Organized crime in Ireland?

When I hear this expression I think, some well dressed olive skin continentals with slicked back hair.

I mean, Ireland and it's culture just doesn't really come across as an "organized crime" type of nation.....

Or does it?

We've all heard of some gang feuds in Dublin etc., that sucks but so many people piled on top of each other in council housing etc., that type of territorialism is bound to emerge.

Throughout the entire country however, length and breath, what kind of activity would fall within the classification of, or could be characterized as "organized crime"?

i.e. unscrupulous or exploitative business practice, something to that effect?

Technically there is a relatively thriving drug trade, so the Irish Times has us believe at least; that being said much of that is confined to the internet in contrast to community suppliers etc., so technically in my mind it's not really "Irish" based or emergent organised crime.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239394/organized-crime-in-ireland

In my perception, organized crime is going down in Ireland, not up. However, it's quite possible that Ireland is still an entry point for drugs into the EU and the UK, especially if long coast lines are not patrolled efficiently. Who knows if there are fishermen out there in need of extra cash?

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239394/organized-crime-in-ireland

By using the term Ireland and its Culture you have summed up organised crime in Rural Ireland.

Organised Crime in rural Ireland revolves around Drugs , Drugs are destroying all parts of Ireland these days - Overdoses, Suicides, Brain Aneurysm deaths , family & domestic violence , burning down houses , intimidation etc etc

Other than drugs, burglaries of homes and Businesses is number 2 crime for organised crime families .

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851791#Comment_118851791

Do you think the Guards are ill equipped or ill trained to deal with the matter?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851791#Comment_118851791

This could be true but the nature of this crime is not really "Irish".

Apart from maybe one or two go-getters with a few mari-juana plants in their sun room, as I understand it Ireland isn't exactly a hot bed for drug manufacture or distribution (nor does its culture really lend itself to such).

If I understand what you're alluding to correctly, the nature of this drug problem would be largely imported by way of the internet where you get some rural Ireland hill-billy's using the Pablo Escobar alter ego to impress the locals.

Contrast with a country like the Netherlands (which is one of Europe's primary manufacture and distribution outlets), their culture and national framework, being more advanced, is equipped to accommodate manufacture and supply, but it's less of an issue in that country as their culture/national-framework has superior regulatory control, manages it as a whole, much better.

Owing to better law enforcement, city and district council protocols, generally superior and more progressive national policies (even if they lack that Irish-charm).

But coming back to contemporary Ireland, say one characterized "organized crime" as thriving business of a controversial nature that operates outside the remit of government oversight;

What else would we be looking at?

BrianD3

Diesel laundering? Maybe less prevalent and lucrative now as afaik there are different markers used in the fuel that are more difficult to remove.

Some very unsavoury characters involved in this "business".

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852009#Comment_118852009

Drugs are so easily available, I’m not sure which planet you’re living on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852264#Comment_118852264

Not to turn this into a discussion on this specific aspect but, how ANYONE would ever trust in the quality being provided from some street hustling riff-raff that couldn't tell you a molecule or ionic bond from last Tuesday, positively mystifies me.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853884#Comment_118853884

I 100% agree with you on that point.

zg3409

There are protection rackets in cities, door security, construction site security, monthly not getting burnt down fees. Many legitimate shops pay these routinely.

Some "gangs" terrorise their local area.

A massive issue is dis organized crime where drug addicts have drug debts that need to be repaid. This creates hundreds of house burglaries for petty cash, and sometimes shootings and assignations are used to pay back debt and encourage others with debt to also rob friends and family to get the money to pay their debt. Pipe bombs on doorsteps are somewhat common.

There is also other underground gangs such as Chinese gangs in Dublin involved in gambling, cash businesses, employing illegals.

There is an underground grow house market renting houses, growing cannabis, and those looking after crops often don't speak English or even know where they are.

The red light businesses and people trafficking are also here too with Russian gangs etc.

Northern Ireland has an even bigger history in recent history, all similar with certain gangs 100% owning their area of control.

While they may all be somewhat dis organized, they do work as a team or clan or group typically with one family or person at the top. The Gardai leave some alone, if they don't rock the boat, and others are hard to prosecute beside the low level grunts.

The massive mark up on drugs generates insane cash in short periods.

Strumms

As long as the risk is put into context and the reward outweighs the risk…

considering the absolute blight on society that the drug trade perpetrates.

every level of it needs to be attacked. Dealers, upper levels criminal suppliers, facilitators of every respect..

a dealer found with 36,000 worth of cocaine in Ballincollig got four years with two suspended … his fourth conviction for the same offence…

But he’s free after what, one and a bit ? Is that a deterrent ?

washman3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854065#Comment_118854065

No, it's not a deterrent by any means but guess what? he's making a hell load of dosh for those in the legal business (sorry legal industry) That's all that matters to these vermin. Not much use to them locking up this guy for 20 years (which should happen). Who would fund their film-star lifestyles then.?? 😉

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854065#Comment_118854065

Should be made legal. Put them out of business, it's the only way.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854065#Comment_118854065

Some countries like Thailand have the death penalty for drug-trafficking, but I know from personal experience that people still buy and sell drugs in that country. Cocaine dealers sell to consenting people, they don't trick or force you to buy it. A "blight on society" that's a bit over the top, anytime I see people taking coke they're getting enjoyment from it. A lot of high-achievers have used it. Why not give legalization a try, if it doesn't work out revert to prohibition.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854137#Comment_118854137

in theory fine, reverting back would where the cluster fück happens.

legalizing would increase addiction and the associated health problems… health services are already fûcked… doubt legalising cocaine would help.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854133#Comment_118854133

Often hear that but how would it work? Have shops selling heroin,cocaine,grass, tablets to anyone? Would it not be just the current dealers running the shops?

Assume price’s the same so junkies still doing petty crimes to get the money to buy?

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854161#Comment_118854161

Cocaine is not addictive, the last time I did it was October bank-holiday and you don't know there would be more addictions unless you have a crystal ball. Health services might benefit from the savings on policing, legal costs etc it and the tax take from it.

Bigmac1euro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854228#Comment_118854228

interesting take on one of the most moreish substances in the world.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854228#Comment_118854228

cocaine is addictive, ask any neurobiological expert and they will confirm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854065#Comment_118854065

Yes that's the solution.

More drugs on the table... Dealers in cuffs... That'll get those evil drugs off the street.

It's something we haven't tried as a society, neither anywhere else... Maybe we need to try that, surely we'll see a reduction in users, dealers, murders and all that comes with it.

Strumms

What about all the extra societal and health problems with addiction and use ? Longer hospital waiting lists, even more addicts clogging up hospitals and waiting lists then are already

more users = more addicts.

the only benefits from legalizing is slightly safer product due to quality control…

there would still be an illegal drugs trade, less lucrative but it won’t go away.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854391#Comment_118854391

There you go again with your crystal ball, using the word "will" when talking about the future, that's just your opinion, it can't be a fact 'cos it hasn't happened yet. If cocaine is so addictive, how come I'm not an addict or any of the other users I know. A tiny minority do take too much but they often have underlying issues in their live and prohibition hasn't prevented that.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854405#Comment_118854405

Yeah, imagine, boards.ie and someone expressing an opinion. whatever next

Here in addition to opinions are facts, they include addiction numbers. The ‘treatment’ numbers as a result of cocaine use are shocking.

https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/17308/1/Cocaine%20Factsheet_March_2022.pdf

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854406#Comment_118854406

Opinions are fine as long as you don't try to pass them off as facts. According to your link, if I read it correctly, 72,000 people in Ireland have used coke in the last 12 months. 42 people died from it in 2016 and 53 in 2017, 228 people were treated for non-fatal overdoses in 2019. That is a tiny minority of 72k.

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854172#Comment_118854172

I have more sympathy for an innocent young lad like Anthony Campbell who was shot in cold blood with defensive marks on his hards, due to rival drug gangs who were enabled to get to that level by drug dealing, than I would for some person who went into a shop and bought heroin and OD'd.

Quitelife

WE had Head shops which sold lots of Drug Poppers and tablets about 15 years ago , these had to be closed down as that crap became normalized and hundreds of youngsters became addicted over a very short time and there was a significant spike in mental health problems for users .

How would cocaine/heroin shops/clinics be any different?.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854623#Comment_118854623

They were closed down because they were unregulated.

Donald Trump

I knew a fella who used to specialise in selling Filofaxes to all manner of dodgy people so that they could properly streamline and manage their activities.

He worked in very organised crime.

I'll get me coat

(Joke robbed from some comedian whom I can't remember)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854413#Comment_118854413

so you are only interested in overdose and death ?

because drug abuse / use never caused any other health or societal issues ? Umm ok.

not trying to pass anything off as fact, it’s all in black and white :).

Since this has gone completely toward the "drug use" side of organised crime:

• A study with Rats indicates they'll use drug compulsively (dopamine reinforcement), ahead of food, water, shelter, sex etc.
• The study was repeated when the Rats were in a non-clinical environment (i.e. out in the wild, natural environment vs an emotionally suppressive environment like a glass box in a laboratory).
• The Rats abandoned drug use almost entirely
• Conclusion - people use drugs when they're discontent with the state of their lives and environments
• The determinant of this is their emotional well being.

So is it a surprise drug use is rampant in overcrowded and built up suppressive living environments (council housing).

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854413#Comment_118854413

I have attended three funerals already this year which were all deaths due to cocaine use - one was a brain anneryism in a 50 year old, one was suicide due to their life going pear shaped over their drug use and the other was a suicide because they were so afraid over a drug debt they couldnt pay a threatening drug dealer they killed themselves . The real reasons of these deaths will not be on any death certificate for various reasons.

These are all in a small town in munster. None of these will feature on any official numbers.

Someone mentioned "door security" as being an organised crime racket.

.....

Is it possible there's truth to this?

What about prostitution?

It's certainly outside the scope of government oversight and legislation/licensure?

Say, there's probably about between five and sex six hundred prostitutes operating around Ireland at the moment, both north and south of the border.

By no means am I suggesting this is a grand mal endeavor in human trafficking but, when it comes to their transport, accommodation, provision of security, general organisation, well there's an entire contingent of unlicensed individuals managing that without government oversight.

Does that not fall into the category of "organised crime"? (technically I think prostitution itself is legal, it's just potentially being run by unlicensed organised crime rackets and outfits).

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118855571#Comment_118855571

When you talk about the future, it's not black and white, it's usually unpredictable. I think it's important to highlight the low number of deaths, it's not the killer drug some people think it is, even though it's illegal and unregulated. According to Ask About Alcohol that drug is directly responsible for 88 deaths per MONTH.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118856546#Comment_118856546

I empathise 'cos I had a relative who died that way. He smoked cannabis but I wouldn't blame that substance for his death nor do I want it to remain illegal. Your third example about the threatening drug-dealer is another reason why it should be legal.

cafflingwunts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859195#Comment_118859195

It was always put to me that Private Security in Ireland was originally mostly run by IRA-affiliated companies and if not affiliated, directly involved.

They would put their men on the door, take note of the lads dealing the gear inside and then tax them at a later date or just have them sell their gear instead.

Nowadays, security is a different type of organized crime altogether.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862572#Comment_118862572

No idea if this is true or just you validating your screen name.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

Recently the leader of an organised crime group in Kilkenny was sentenced for Racketeering and intimidation of loads of businesses in the town, mostly around the Hebron road area with the big industrial estate there.

Going on for years apparently but the guards were only able to nab them when a manager of one of the stores targeted had enough and gave evidence in court. So it does happen all over the country.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853884#Comment_118853884

Because they for the most part aren’t manufacturers, they’re distributors.

What would be the point in poisoning your customer base with bad product? You’ll make no money as word gets around that you’re selling dodgy stuff, not to mention you’d probably have a good few people after you for deliberately selling them dodgy stuff.

It’s in the interest of both the dealer and consumer that the quality is good.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864384#Comment_118864384

How ees posible.... they get away with it for so long?

Would one not imagine they'd just file a Garda report at the first sign of intimidation?

Is that not the point of living in a civilized society, that An Garda/La-Politia manage these matters so citizens don't have to go all "rogue justice"?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865565#Comment_118865565

Intimidation is just that. Intimidated into not going to the guards for fear of having your premises burnt to the ground, or your family harmed, or worse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864879#Comment_118864879

Yeah I'm sure Johnny-bad-ass with the burberry cap stood on the street corner prioritizes quality.

I mean that's certainly their reputation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865594#Comment_118865594

Neutralize the threat?

I mean that's what the source mentions, they were eventually brought to heel cause one target was cognizant enough not to fall for their bad-boy charade and filed a Garda statement?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865606#Comment_118865606

Bit naive to think that that target is not now an even bigger target.

I absolutely agree that intimidation and racketeering like this should be reported, but until you’re on the receiving end is easy to say.

many people put a high value on their kneecaps.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865629#Comment_118865629

Could well be right, maybe I am inexperienced/naive to these types of affairs.

Quite simply cause my experience with town billy-bad-ass type is that when they themselves are confronted for real, they literally piss themselves, then go cry about it.

The fact that a legitimate tax paying business could be coerced by this type indicates to me something is either wrong, or terribly incompetent along the chain of command.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865646#Comment_118865646

I guess part of the problem is that after you make your complaint to the Gardai, it takes 2-3 years for anything to happen, and you, your business, your family are all exposed to the individual concerned, and indeed their colleagues.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865596#Comment_118865596

Speaking from experience are you?

I didn’t say they’re prioritising quality, I said it’s not in their interest to poison their own customers, which is true

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

I think most people and businesses just pay up and get on with it. Sometimes its easier to just pay instead of dealing with the hassle AndrewJRenko mentions above.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866261#Comment_118866261

Is this actually true?

Exactly what type of businesses are paying?

We can't possibly be talking something entirely legitimate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866237#Comment_118866237

Perhaps it's not always immediately apparent, but sound rationale and good decision making is not always that class of persons strong-suit.

Another thing.

When was the last time you've ever heard of someone being knee capped?

Wouldn't it be in the papers?