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Irish immigration and 'working from home'

  • 19-03-2022 3:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭


    Not sure if this is allowed or not.

    A friend (Irish but resident in Australia) and his Australian wife want to come to Ireland for a short(3-4weeks) holiday. While here, she might need to do some 'work from home' for her Australian employer. But the immigration service website says you are not allowed " Do work (paid or unpaid) of any kind" with a short stay visa

    Would that clause bar her from being contacted by her Australian employer ( essentially work related) ?

    Or does it only apply to employment for an Irish employer?

    To be clear, she has o intention of staying here to seek employment.

    Thanks



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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,627 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    I am not sure what you are asking?


    Is she trying to use this clause so as her employer cannot ask her to do work while during her time off from her job? Surely she does not need bit of legalese to say to her employer: "I am out of the office and uncontactable during my time off"


    Or is she worried about it from the Irish Authorities perspective??? Why would she even be mentioning to anyone that she is logging on to do a bit of work for her employer, albeit during her time off (her choice I guess!!)


    What are you actually asking/saying????



  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    OP you/her are over thinking this. Who is going to know she's logging on and doing a couple of hours of work?

    I logged on to check emails on holiday in Prague. Nobody knew.

    If they're staying in a hotel, an unsafe WiFi connection will be more of an issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭rock22


    Thanks for the responses

    @Dav010 Is there any reason why she would inform the Irish authorities about online work during her visit?

    Not particularly. But they would prefer not to do anything illegal.

    @amdublin Or is she worried about it from the Irish Authorities perspective??? Yes this. Shew will bring laptop and possibly other work related documents with her. As she is not seeking work ( or residency ) here she gave no thought to it until someone pointed out the information on the Irish immigration website. She assumed that working for her Australian employer would not be a problem but the Irish immigration site seems unequivocal.

    I think , just a general worry about doing the right thing.

    @shar01 OP you/her are over thinking this. I logged on to check emails on holiday in Prague. Nobody knew. Perhaps , but I get the impression that it will be more than just a few email. She can , at the moment, work from home(in Australia) and her plan , agreed with her employer, is that she will continue to do this work, but remotely in Ireland, while she is here on holiday. At least for part of the time she is here.

    What I am getting from the responses is that it is probably against the immigration rules to do what she was intending to do. Would that be correct? I feel that se would rather not come at this time if what she is doing could be illegal. At the moment it is simply that the Irish partner wants to travel to see family after lockdown etc. but she is unable to get away from work at time which suits, hence the need to "work from home". They could postpone until 2023.

    Thanks again for all the time to respond.

    Is there someone or some service which could give us a definitive answer? i was thinking of going to Citizens Information Bureau or perhaps Gardai.

    Thanks



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  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭ClaudeVercetti


    The only real concern should be with her employer as they'll have more capabilities to find out where an employee is logging in from. The fact that she's already agreed this with the employer and they're happy with the arrangement means there's no issue at all here.

    Realistically Immigration isn't going to spend time and resources going for someone who logged in to do a bit of work over a 3/4 week stay. Add to that the fact that it'd be almost impossible for them to even know.

    I've known people who've come back for an extended stay post-lockdown as they couldn't travel during and there wasn't a problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    >>The reference to work regarding immigration is, of course, in relation to working for an Irish employer.

    short stay visit Visas have a no working requirement. it doesn't say you can continue to work for your foreign employer while visiting as a tourist. The chances of anything happening are practically zero but they are still breaching their visa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭dotsman


    But that's what is implied. That is the purpose of it. That you are not applying for jobs in Ireland. You can do whatever you want on your phone/laptop. It is the same in every country. Why would Ireland care if they are working for their employer or not???



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The countries motivations are irrelevant. one of the conditions of a tourist visa is no work of any kind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Work isn’t allowed. It doesn’t really matter if you think they should or shouldn’t care. Even golfers coming here to play in the Irish open or singers coming to do concerts have to get specific visas/immigration stamps. It’s the same in pretty much every country (or grouping) too. There’s nothing implied in legislation, it’s clearly stated.

    The fact it can’t be policed for a couple of emails or phone calls means in reality there won’t be anyone catching them. So loads will do it anyway



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,997 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    If she doesn't want to come and visit the in-laws then she should just say that, cancelling a holiday because its "illegal" to answer a work email is hilarious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭miezekatze


    I think the 'no work' thing means no work for an Irish employer. I don't think people get working visas if they come over here on a business trip, wouldn't that be a similar situation? If you go to the US on a business trip you'd usually just get a normal esta too, but you wouldn't be allowed to work over there on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    if you are coming on business you get the appropriate visa. a tourist visa would not be appropriate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you think a managing director of a US company here on a golfing holiday with his/her mates doesn’t do meetings from the hotel in the evenings?



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    do you think that breaches the terms of a tourist visa?



  • Posts: 5,121 [Deleted User]


    No work means no work, otherwise staff would be dispatched around the world while still being employed and paid from a cheaper location.

    Practically it is unlikely to be an issue, but bringing a laptop and documents with you is a step up on checking your email on your phone say.

    The example of Prague is irrelevant, as an Irish person you have the general right to work from anywhere in the EU, an Australian does not have this right.

    She could be stopped at the border and challenged as to why she is carrying work documents on a holiday, but it is probably a low risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,498 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    If she is carrying a work laptop and documents,and happens to get immigration office Prick, then she may get turned around at the border as at risk of overstaying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    imagine placing conditions on a visa. the humanity.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not even going to engage with this nonsense



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭rock22


    @ohnonotgmail short stay visit Visas have a no working requirement. it doesn't say you can continue to work for your foreign employer while visiting as a tourist. The chances of anything happening are practically zero but they are still breaching their visa.

    Yes, this is what I was afraid of. I believe that she will probably not be detected but i think she will be reluctant to breach any terms of her visa.

    @Mrs OBumble If she is carrying a work laptop and documents, and happens to get immigration office Prick, then she may get turned around at the border as at risk of overstaying.

    That's exactly what she is worried about.

    @miezekatze I think the 'no work' thing means no work for an Irish employer. 

    In fact there doesn't even have to be an employer. Work of any kind is not allowed, even if unpaid.

    @pg633 No work means no work, ....Practically it is unlikely to be an issue, but bringing a laptop and documents with you is a step up on checking your email on your phone say.

    That is what i am thinking too. Unlikely to be caught but still , technically, breaching tourist visa.

    Thanks for all the answers and thoughts. i will pass it on. They may decide to postpone to a time when they are both free of work commitments.

    @woody22  Stupid thread is stupid. Not even going to engage with this nonsense

    Yes, Please don't.

    But it is a serious question for the friends involved.

    Thanks again for all advice



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Imagine taking what you are posting seriously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    excuse me? am I imagining a no work condition on tourist visas?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I think you are imagining someone using their laptop to do some work for their employer at home while here on holiday to be an issue. Like other, I suspect this has more to do with working/earning from a source here in Ireland ala a singer/golfer when they come here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I initially responded to somebody who claimed that the "working" only referred to working for an irish company. Do you agree with that position?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    And I responded to your humanity comment about placing conditions on a visa, that might include answering emails from your workplace in Australia or doing some work on her laptop while here. You’ve got to be on a wind up, or maybe there has in fact been a spate of deportations of people who answered emails/did some work on their laptops while on holiday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,995 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    it is not a long thread, try to read it all before responding. I did say

    The chances of anything happening are practically zero but they are still breaching their visa.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,045 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Get them to ring the Irish embassy in Australia and ask.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    I think there is a difference between the tax rules that might be applicable and the visa rules, and as far as I'm aware they don't interact for the purpose of the OP. But the holdiay visa rule is covering all work technically, as I understand it.

    For the visa requirement, it's probably technically correct that working while here on the holiday visa is not permitted but this is predominantly to stop people coming over on a holiday visa just to get a job here which would of course be off the books and not tax paying. This naturally could be exploited if there was no restriction.

    Someone employed abroad but doing some work physically based in Ireland, notwithstanding that the work is conducted legally and online abroad, is not what the visa restriction net is trying to catch I think. That doesn't mean the visa rule still can't be exploited and used as a front to get an employee a physical foothold in Ireland even though they are legally employed abroad and this is why I think the visa rule should still restrict working in Ireland while being employed abroad. For all we know the Australian lady could be conducting work in Ireland with Irish clients and instead of obtaining a work visa, is scoping out the holiday visa regime.

    For the tax point, this is more to do with the employer and is a bit irrelevant to the holiday visa point as the employee might have a working visa for Ireland but the company could still be based abroad for tax reasons. This topic would need to consider to what extent their employee is actually employed in the country they claim they are but this would really depend on the work being undertaken by the employee in the context of the overall company operations. I would imagine that for someone genuinely just logging on in Ireland to do a bit of work they would've done back in Australia and nothing more than this, that the company or the employee wouldn't be considered tax resident in Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,112 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    You’ve clearly never worked in a regulated financial services role where not only are you not supposed to work for a continuous 10 business day period but the employer is required to ensure that your electronic devices cannot access relevant networks during that period.

    That said,I agree with the idea that work of this nature SHOULD not be a problem.



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