Picard 2x02 - 'Penance' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 2x02 - 'Penance' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

ilovesmybrick

Well that was enjoyable. Somewhat heavy handed on the references to previous Trek, but that wasn't too bad.

I think some might be a bit put off by the turn of Q from trickster to aggressive, but I quite like it. I'm not sure about the Q being sick idea though, it could be interesting, but it doesn't really seem to fit with what we know of them.

I did appreciate how quickly they set up where the characters were in this new timeline, and moved them back into place. It would have been quite frustrating if they spent episodes getting characters into contact with one another, which was an irritation last season. I found that the epsiode flew by, in a good way, and was a bit surprised when it was over at the end. I thought there was at least another ten minutes. Having the combadges as shuriken, while cheesy, was kinda cool!

Also Patton Oswalt!

liamtech

Epic - listen theres loads of holes but MAN - that was epic!!!!!!

ilovesmybrick

Yeah, really enjoyable so far, and a solid episode of Trek. I think the slight reframing of Elnors absolute candor and his interactions with Raffi could prove to be quite fun. I know some people have pointed to the travelling back in time part as a money saving measure, but based on these two episodes whatever cash they're saving doing that is being pumped into the others. I thought the effects of the tower blowing up in Okinawa were top notch, and the battle for Vulcan looked great. Those new Vulcan ships are a really nice design and call back to the older ring ships.

Rios has been great fun this season too, though not really a fan of his relationship with Jurati.

liamtech

My Theory

Evidence:

• Historically, the Federation's first REAL CONTACT with the Borg, was a result of Q - a warning, they are out there.
• Picard assimilated by the Borg - knows more than anyone what they are
• Present: Picard was seemingly about to Die fighting the Borg -
• Given statements on the condition of the collective, seems apparent they are 'not doing well' - Picard decides to hesitates to take advantage
• About to die, Q intervenes
• Q is not well
• Q shows Picard a Depraved reality where he, along with the (con)federation chose a different path. Horrendous crimes. Evil in all ways. 'The end of the road not taken'
• BUT - One advantage - the Borg Collective have been vanquished (Picard is a broken clock in this Universe, but the clock is right twice a day - he did what NEEDED to be done, the line was drawn)

Theory

• Is that the lesson? Was that always the lesson RE the Borg. No compromise, they must be defeated?
• Have they 'interacted' with the Q Continuum? Remember they assimilated the El-Aurians - Who (at least in one case) have interacted with the Continuum?
• Is there the possibility that the Q have been 'neutralized' as a threat to the Collective, and the Q are unwilling/unable to deal directly with the borg any longer (if the collective has told you once its told you a thousand times. DONT BOTHER THE BORG (Voyager episode)... WHY???? Why would god like beings of unlimited power 'not wish to antagonize the borg?) - are we missing something BIG?
• Is it possible. Q, is now weakened, and needs Picard to take some action that can alter this current situation?

All just speculation - love to hear what we think

Spear

There's some larger context in the story for sure. The two references to Q not being well, and the exchange where Q accuses Picard of being guilty of something, but Picard simply looks away.

On a lighter note, the magistrate is played by Jon Jon Briones, the father of Isa Briones. So just like we're getting one of the Soong dynasty each season, we're getting one of the Briones family too.

_Kaiser_

That was another solid episode - two in a row!

Will need to watch it again I think but this Terran Empire/Confederation works a lot better than the Mirror Universe stuff in the earlier Discovery seasons.

Q was still Q but with a nasty edge that we haven't seen since those early TNG appearances.

Lots of callbacks - Dukat, Martok and I'm assuming that the Ferengi was either Damon Bok or maybe Zek. Mention of Sisko too (guess he didn't make Emissary in this universe - yet!).

Overall it was very enjoyable and it flew by. Looking forward to next week.

eadrom

That was good!

Not sure I liked Q working some episode titles into dialogue! Bit strange. I heard "Yesterday's Enterprise" and I think it was "In a Mirror, Darkly".

The Confederation? Welcome to Space 'Murica.

fritzelly

Loved that - the skulls were the cherry on top

More Trek in one episode of this than an entire season of Disco

FutureGuy

Two fantastically strong episodes of Trek this week.

I cannot believe the turnaround in this show. I hated season 1. The characters are more likeable and better written. Good story. Q. The Confederate. All great.

FutureGuy

Really like the fact that the Elimination Day celebration was VERY like the courthouse in TNG where Q put man king on trial. Lots of red colour and screaming people.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761264#Comment_118761264

There was the episode in Voyager...

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765888#Comment_118765888

Do you mean the Q civil war episode?

a_squirrelman

Amazing, loved it!

Doodah7

The new episode is not showing up for me on Prime. Is this the same for anyone else?

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118766780#Comment_118766780

It on there for me now. I think it shows up at 10am on Fridays.

AMKC

That was not a great episode. Maybe if I watch it a 2nd time I will enjoy it better butvcertainly not as good as the first episode. To much Dark for me. I really do not like Jurati either and think she is the week link in the whole thing.

Also I thought the part where they were just beamed onto Rios ship and then all of a sudden they are down on the planet again was very badly done and edited. It looks like they had a scene in between it but decided to leave it out for some reason. I mean all we see is the Queen going back into something on Rios ship then they are all back where they were before being on Rios ship which made mo sense.

Doodah7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118767212#Comment_118767212

Yes you were right!! How bizarre!

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118767216#Comment_118767216

I think you've misinterpreted part of that. They're only on the ship once, at the end. They performed a site to site transport down to the lab. The interstitial shot of the La Sirena approaching, may have been misleading.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118767360#Comment_118767360

Maybe. I will watch it all again when I get a chance and maybe it will make more sense the 2nd time.

Evade

Decent enough episode, certainly a better Dark Federation than we've gotten before, especially lately.

I wasn't a fan of Q dropping episode titles, especially Yesterday's Enterprise as the only knowledge Picard would have of that incident came from Sela.

Since he was name dropped, and presuming it's Ben and not Jake, I would have liked to have seen the UCS Defiant class.

Guinan's going to be the 2024 watcher at 10 Forward Street isn't she?

You have to feel sorry for Orla Brady, forgotten about last season and killed off, temporarily, off-screen this season.

The skulls were a nice grim touch but I think it would have been more impactful if the Klingon was Worf instead of Martok. Had he stayed in the Empire and his family not been disgraced he would have been very influential, possibly even Chancellor.

One thing I didn't like that seems to have crept over from Discovery is the galaxy has shrunk, a lot. Earth to the Borg anomoly on the same morning, Vulcan to Earth in about an hour or two.

Doodah7

God that was great fun. Really appreciate that they didn't waste any time getting the band back together to move the story forward.

It's proper Trek done right. No whispered angst, no woke sensibilities been shoved down the viewer's throats, no one single character that is the only one able to save the day every episode. What we do get are characters with personality, that bounce off one another yet work together and all of which is anchored in lore and history that is familiar and welcome to the viewer.

As another person who grew to hate the end of Season 1 and was ambivalent about this new Season, I'm delighted that it has been so enjoyable so far.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764790#Comment_118764790

Yesterday's Enterprise seemed a bit forced in but through a mirror darkly is a rework of a Bible quote so kinda made sense to the situation

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118766268#Comment_118766268

That's the one, were they not dying or something or was that just the fighting, so long ago since I've seen it

Rawr

Agreed that the Confederation is by far a better done alternative reality than the Mirror universe has been. I guess the closest we got to this before was the War reality in Yesterday’s Enterprise.

I kind of get the impression that the writers had done a marathon of DS9 before doing this one. A lot of very DS9 name drops there…but to their credit well-done name drops that made sense.

I enjoyed that quite a lot. Roll on next week.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769604#Comment_118769604

The Q and the Grey" I think it was called of the top of my head and the Qs were dying. Yep just checked there that's the episodes name and it's Season 3 episode 11. The only thing that can kill another Q is a Q. That's why there was supernovas going bang.

Q needed to mate to stop there civil war.

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769604#Comment_118769604

Yeha, I get where you're coming from, but they weren't sick as far as I remember, it was due to allowing the other Q commit suicide that caused a civil war. I think this is somewhat different though, I got the impression that Picard was saying that Q was actually suffering from a disease or illness of some kind, rather than it being a comment on the Q's killing themselves.

Slydice

That guys about to get assimilated.

I mean.. it's clear.. that guys soooo assimilated in the first seconds of the next episode.

anyway.. probably a quest of will Elnor be healable.. or need to be assimilated too.. or die.

Double anyway... Star Trekking... swinging round a star... boldly time travelling into twenty twenty ..far? 🙂

yeah yeah.. but four doesn't ryhme as good! 😁

Enjoyed that episode. Nearly jumped outta my seat at the mere thought of Avery Brooks turning up.

Holy crap, we may have an actual Star Trek

I wonder if The Watcher is Gary7

TheValeyard

I enjoyed it overall. Strong episode.

Didnt like the way Q struck Picard. Just didnt seem....right.

So, are the Q sick?

Confed Earth was like a more grown up Terran Empire. Curious as to how they became so advanced without the help and contribution of other species. The Terran Empire had the Defiant which went back in time and huge tech advantage.

Borg Queen is interesting. She's totally plotting something

Only one episode of Orla Brady? That's a pity. She's a great edition.

Evade

Before getting the Defiant the Terran Empire were already ahead of the United Earth IIRC. In in a Mirror Darkly they already had shields, were faster, and there were more NX class ships in service.

Technological development does tend to accelerate during large extended conflicts, as long as you don't nuke yourself back to the stone age.

Come on, the whole thing hinges on us being supposed to care about a borg? And they're going to go back to 2024? Well, I guess Star Trek has at least caught up with the fish out of water story. They can finally talk to computers and phones in 2024 to find out where the whale is located. Maybe let kirk know while they're at it.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771463#Comment_118771463

Thought the strike against Picard showed a contempt of the human species that was always prevalent in Q

Anyone else get Troi vibes with the Orla character?

Rawr

Regarding Orla Brady, something comes to mind.

Do you think Q is doing all of this because Picard shot down Laris’ advances? Q did imply that Picard knew what he had done. I was assuming Picard’s crime was blowing up the Borg in Episode 1, but maybe Q is actually somehow dying and while somehow still caring for Picard he is pissed with him for turning down a last chance at happiness. “Time can be so cruel” said Q with a twinge of sadness, knowing maybe that time was up for both of them.

And so, in typical Q style, he throws Picard into the hell universe for one final lesson about what is really important. (Q is a romantic afterall…..just ask Janeway)

Johnny Storm

You could nit-pick but another really good episode imho.

What is it that Q thinks Picard is guilty of? Could it be something to do with Picard's abusive father?

Leaving his mother, in an abusive house, to travel the stars?

The one negative I have. I now have my hopes up but still have zero confidence in the writing staff

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771849#Comment_118771849

Q and Picard are also Eskimo buddies.

Just watched episode 2. Have to say, really enjoyed it. It was one kick ass episode.

Of course we all know they will time jump but will the magistrate and his goons travel with them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118774923#Comment_118774923

I just can't wait to see how they fit all those whales into that cargo hold.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775064#Comment_118775064

It took me a few seconds but I got there 🤣

My kids watched it and enjoyed it but have no idea of the history.. I felt sorry for them momentarily but it soon passed 😁

pixelburp

Crikey, another strong episode. Two for two and you'd almost start getting excited for the next episode. What's more, the Confederation was a better take on the Supremacist society than the latter-day Terrans have been. No ludicrous camp, or nonsense about eye sensitivity - just a nastier universe with none of the cartoon hyperbole. The DS9 nods were cool.

Glad Picard mentioned Q being off though, cos, yeah. The slap was quite shocking, the anger and contempt palpable. As Jean Luc speculates, maybe Q is ill.

I await the Borg Queen inevitably fúcking everything up and trying to assimilate the ship / crew. Of course, her stasis field is deactivated, and seems to be making eyes at Jurati. That'll end well no doubt.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775773#Comment_118775773

Yeah I instantly felt that the Confederation was a much better take on the 'Terran Empire' than the Mirror Universe from Disco. The fact that the Confederation doesn't have the over the top melodrama of the Mirror Universe actually makes it a more horrifying setting. The nonchalant references to their atrocities and oppression of other races makes the Confeds seem like greater villains. I particularly liked the rewording of Picard's monologue to work as a propaganda video.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777972#Comment_118777972

Far more effective Evil Empire too. The Terran Empire never managed to destroy The Alliance before it got a chance to become a thing, and the Romulans AND *The Borg*?! They killed the whole Collective, which suggests that they steamrolled over the Delta Quadrant in that reality.

Makes you wonder if The Dominion are sort of the only “Good Guys” left as the only power that can stop Earth

AllForIt

All I could think was as all the characters were realizing the situation they are now in, are any of them thinking 'what the hell am I doing here, I'd rather just be at home in bed'.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780831#Comment_118780831

I was thinking about the Dominion alright while-watching it but maybe in this reality there is no Wormhole so maybe the Confederation have never came across the Dominion.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780966#Comment_118780966

Well its the same reality, just a different outcome because of whatever was changed in 2024.

The wormhole will still be there no doubt, but it was discovered by accident (or guidance from the prophets) initially so not surprising they haven't found it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780966#Comment_118780966

There is a military report on President 7s news feed that says "Dominion Alliance War: Field officer General Myles O'Brien

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781088#Comment_118781088

Awe cool. Must keep on eye put for that while watching it again.

I wonder where the Confederation fits into the Universe. Does it come after the fall of the Terran empire for instance or is it just in this reality Q has created that is the Path not taken.?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781190#Comment_118781190

Terran empire is the mirror universe. This is the prime universe warped by whatever Q done so not related other than both being evil.

The news feed also mentioned Tashha Yard fighting against Andoria and Tuvok leading the Vulcan forces.