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The Irish Left, Putin and NATO

  • 01-03-2022 2:11pm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly

    I know there is a fast-moving thread about the situation in Ukraine, so don't want to clog that up with this.

    But did anyone catch Matt Copper yesterday when they had Socialist TD Mick Barry on it?

    It was an extraordinary interview. Usually, Matt Cooper will give these loonies some time and patience but this time out he really pushed Mick to explain his position.

    Then at the end, he wanted to have a big monologue about past American indiscretions and both Declan Power and Matt Coopper went to town on him.

    Today, we have PBP equating what Russia is doing, actual war crimes to what NATO is doing, which is at most providing weapons to Ukrainians to defend themselves against an onslaught.

    So, what gives? Why do we in Ireland have some of the biggest wasters, wafflers, pro-Putin stooges money can buy? Why do we accept these people and elect them to positions?

    I have my own opinions on this but would like to see what others think.

    Personally, it's good to see people calling these folks out for what they have been saying for years and decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock

    The Far-Left and Far-Right have always had Hard-Ons for Dictators. Elements of both seem to support Putin for some strange reason though.

    They need to be allowed speak their guff so we can identify them, and then rightly ridicule them as the complete clowns that they are.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus

    We should defo look at all of them who have financial interests in Russia and especially those tied financially to Putin. We should look into Putin's affairs in Ireland and see what part Gino from PBP has in all of this.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly

    I like the monkier Putin Before People...

    Because we all know who is really to blame for this war.... NATO and their capitalist friends.

  • Registered Users Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ Liberty_Bear

    Democratically governments were removed by the US - Greece , Dominican Republic, Nicaragua to mention a few so not quite sure you can really take something like that as being genuinely as being specific to marxists.

    Im annoyed to learn about Wallace and Daly, I have time for them but am not happy they voted against the resolution

    Big lad who likes big lads...:)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭ OneEightSeven

    They hate neoliberalism so much, they cosy up to a country run by a murderous right-wing dictator and his gang of kleptocrats and oligarchs, just to stick it to America and the EU.

  • Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭ foxsake

    it is possible to be anti war but not in the "Russia Man Bad" camp. such deep thinking seems beyond most on boards.

    can't believe I'm defending the Lefties but it's been a weird few years.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,780 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    I am sure that they will forget the full-blown retreat of people like Ming and Sinn Fein who are reversing quickly away from their long-time support of Putin.

  • Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭ foxsake

    you would think that if you believed the news that Putin just woke up and decided I'm gonna take over the world starting today with Ukraine.

    Defo his invasion was a terrible thing but as per the other thread, thinking there are goodies and baddies in geo politics is naïve. He didn't start this for nothing. The key to regaining peace is dealing with that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus

    Yep no doubt Clare Daly, Paul Murphy and Gino Kenny have numerous financial dealings in Russia. Likely behind Putin using Ireland as a tax haven to funnel money. SF and the Greens voted against sanctions too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,780 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    I think the point here is that people like Wallace and Daly, McManus and Ming in the European Parliament have been defending Putin for years. That sort of support from politicians like them helps convince Putin that the West will turn a blind eye when he does something like Ukraine. In effect, lads like those are our Neville Chamberlains.

    As for not starting this for nothing, the idea that violence is the solution to any problem is wrong. This is no just war, Putin is just plain wrong.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,780 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    Why are you whatabouting financial dealings in Russia. I would bet Leo doesn't have any personal financial dealings in Russia either or Martin or Ryan or any politician in Ireland. That is a complete red herring that you are throwing out.

    The likes of Wallace, Daly, Murphy, Sinn Fein etc. all cosied up to Putin for years, even when they knew what he was doing in Crimea and Chechen. They are not fit for government, not fit for the world stage, not fit to be let out for five minutes.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus

    Stop bringing right wing politics into a left wing thread. You're being ridiculous. TBF, they do support Putin financially but wrong thread for that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ malk518

    Fine Gaels government gave Russia today's Irish operation a state subsidy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly

    Yes, you posted that already. This is not the FG thread though.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly

    How do they support Putin financially, exactly, and who are 'they'? Again, maybe take it to the relevant thread.

  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ malk518

    Where did I post that? Don't think I did. I think you've me mixed up. As regards the FG comment what difference does it make?

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,780 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    That is probably the worst attempt at whataboutery that I have seen on here.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus

    The Greens and Sinn Fein voted against sanctions. We need to see who in PBP is helping Putin funnel money through Ireland. What does Paul Murphy know about Irish investing in Russia? We need to know!

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly

    The Greens and Sinn Fein voted against sanctions

    That is not true about the Greens.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,796 ✭✭✭✭ hatrickpatrick

    I don't understand it at all, to be honest, and I'd be far further left than most people. All imperialism of every kind is bad. Russian imperialism is bad. Western imperialism is bad. Imperialism with the intention of installing left wing leaders is bad. Imperialism with the intention of installing right wing leaders is bad.

    Literally every single possible action which is one nation state trying to subvert the democratic will of the people in another nation state for reasons of political ideology or material gain is evil and wrong. That includes what Russia is doing now and did for a lot of the cold war, and it includes a great many things Western powers have done as well.

    I truly don't understand how anyone can possibly fail to see the utter ridiculousness in condemning imperialism conditionally depending on who is doing it. Any action taken by any nation state whose purpose is to overturn or subvert political decisions taken democratically in another nation state is imperialism. Unless there are genuine humanitarian issues at play (human rights violations), such actions are always, always unacceptable.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,361 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy

    The left today is largely a middle class hobby horse with its own religious belief system.

    Events change, their analysis does not.

    Doubling down is the only response.

    Putin uses some of their tropes and terms, gets buy in, in other cases funds grease the wheels of the people's revolution.