The Irish Left, Putin and NATO

markodaly

I know there is a fast-moving thread about the situation in Ukraine, so don't want to clog that up with this.

But did anyone catch Matt Copper yesterday when they had Socialist TD Mick Barry on it?

It was an extraordinary interview. Usually, Matt Cooper will give these loonies some time and patience but this time out he really pushed Mick to explain his position.

Then at the end, he wanted to have a big monologue about past American indiscretions and both Declan Power and Matt Coopper went to town on him.

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/how-can-ireland-help-ukraine-if-we-insist-on-being-neutral

Today, we have PBP equating what Russia is doing, actual war crimes to what NATO is doing, which is at most providing weapons to Ukrainians to defend themselves against an onslaught.

https://twitter.com/BrigidLaffan/status/1498634352086892546?s=20&t=oPticFIEcJFAcKFUKduk8w

So, what gives? Why do we in Ireland have some of the biggest wasters, wafflers, pro-Putin stooges money can buy? Why do we accept these people and elect them to positions?

I have my own opinions on this but would like to see what others think.

Personally, it's good to see people calling these folks out for what they have been saying for years and decades.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058235328/the-irish-left-putin-and-nato

The Far-Left and Far-Right have always had Hard-Ons for Dictators. Elements of both seem to support Putin for some strange reason though.

They need to be allowed speak their guff so we can identify them, and then rightly ridicule them as the complete clowns that they are.

mikethecop

People just have to be reminded of these peoples actions and words come election time.

we are lucky enough that were can democratically deplatform these quislings in a few years.

In fairness a lot of the people who voted them in are the ones who are involved in charities and support for Ukraine.

We have a tiny fringe lunatic here but they attract protest votes because the main stream party's are so crappy resulting in creatures like this getting time before camaras and microphones.

saying that anyone who votes for wallace or dalys after this really doesn't deserve to be allowed to vote at all ever again

Brucie Bonus

We should defo look at all of them who have financial interests in Russia and especially those tied financially to Putin. We should look into Putin's affairs in Ireland and see what part Gino from PBP has in all of this.

Dyr

Putin Before Profit, the AAAA/Soddlearity/Whoever spend all their time hiding their real party names, but the Marxist always comes out in them. They hate western democracy.

touts

PBP = Putin before People

The problem with hard line socialism is that a central plank of the teaching of Marx is ordinary people don't know what is best for them because they have been brainwashed by the rich and therefore have to be lead to the promised land of socialist bliss by force if necessary. That is fundamentally at odds with democracy so they will naturally tend to support dictators who oppose western democracies.

Also the likes of PBP, Sinn Fein etc have been in a cosy relationship with Putin for years where they can avail of Putin's bot farms to help spread their populist disruptive message. These same bot farms played a pivotal role in the election of Trump, Orban, Johnson and even back to the Brexit vote. They also have been key to the resurgence of LaPen in France. Can we really be foolish enough to think we are not part of that attempt to undermine western democracy and that purely by chance an army of Shinner bots arose made up of all Irish lads sitting in bungalows in Sligo and not Russian lads sitting in industrial units on the edge of Moscow.

[Deleted User]

He who pays the piper calls the tune. Would be well worth investigating these parties sources of income and any hidden wealth of the leaders

markodaly

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1498696229794025474?s=20&t=sn6FUHUxHPYUhKGVhzTkeg

They are a disgrace!

markodaly

I like the monkier Putin Before People...

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1498748229713903617?s=20&t=sn6FUHUxHPYUhKGVhzTkeg

Because we all know who is really to blame for this war.... NATO and their capitalist friends.

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715578#Comment_118715578

Democratically governments were removed by the US - Greece , Dominican Republic, Nicaragua to mention a few so not quite sure you can really take something like that as being genuinely as being specific to marxists.

Im annoyed to learn about Wallace and Daly, I have time for them but am not happy they voted against the resolution

Abominable Dr. Phibes

Never has the horseshoe theory been more apparent.

OneEightSeven

They hate neoliberalism so much, they cosy up to a country run by a murderous right-wing dictator and his gang of kleptocrats and oligarchs, just to stick it to America and the EU.

the kelt

And people still vote for these cretins. Wallace/Daly/Boys Barrett/Murphy just to name a few, how many thousands of votes have these people got over the years

We get the politicians we deserve and i see the points above as being part of the problem, i mean how crap are our politicians when people vote for these cretins because of the alternative?

I remember being approached by "the pink shirts" years ago whilst out in Wexford Town to vote for the bold Micko, in they came to the pub all full of gusto about changing politics, too much corruption etc etc, i politely ignored them with "ah youre grand" but next thing i seen one fella going for them all guns blazing and the "pink shirts" hastily exiting the bar.

Turns out whilst extolling the virtues of Mickos plan to end corruption they had stumbled across some fella Mick still owed thousands to for work done over the years. I mean this fella is a tax cheat, fraudster, fined for not paying his workers pension contributions it goes on and on.

In reality sometimes there arent enough variations of the word "pr!ck" to cover certain people accurately.

Botrys

for years Mick Wallace painted himself as a beacon for human rights and lectured us on and on about the atrocities committed by the Israeli government against the Palestinians in Israel.

well here’s another Israel 2.0 being created right in front of yours eyes in europe and we saw where you stood you hypocrite.

And it wasn’t just Wallace

this event in Ukraine has dropped the mask off the face of many people who actually never cared about humanitarian causes and are only interested in petty politics. Pathetic.

foxsake

it is possible to be anti war but not in the "Russia Man Bad" camp. such deep thinking seems beyond most on boards.

can't believe I'm defending the Lefties but it's been a weird few years.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118717947#Comment_118717947

I am sure that they will forget the full-blown retreat of people like Ming and Sinn Fein who are reversing quickly away from their long-time support of Putin.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720887#Comment_118720887

In this case Russia Man most certainly is bad, I would have thought that was obvious given the events of the last week.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720991#Comment_118720991

you would think that if you believed the news that Putin just woke up and decided I'm gonna take over the world starting today with Ukraine.

Defo his invasion was a terrible thing but as per the other thread, thinking there are goodies and baddies in geo politics is naïve. He didn't start this for nothing. The key to regaining peace is dealing with that.

Brucie Bonus

Yep no doubt Clare Daly, Paul Murphy and Gino Kenny have numerous financial dealings in Russia. Likely behind Putin using Ireland as a tax haven to funnel money. SF and the Greens voted against sanctions too.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721230#Comment_118721230

I think the point here is that people like Wallace and Daly, McManus and Ming in the European Parliament have been defending Putin for years. That sort of support from politicians like them helps convince Putin that the West will turn a blind eye when he does something like Ukraine. In effect, lads like those are our Neville Chamberlains.

As for not starting this for nothing, the idea that violence is the solution to any problem is wrong. This is no just war, Putin is just plain wrong.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721270#Comment_118721270

Why are you whatabouting financial dealings in Russia. I would bet Leo doesn't have any personal financial dealings in Russia either or Martin or Ryan or any politician in Ireland. That is a complete red herring that you are throwing out.

The likes of Wallace, Daly, Murphy, Sinn Fein etc. all cosied up to Putin for years, even when they knew what he was doing in Crimea and Chechen. They are not fit for government, not fit for the world stage, not fit to be let out for five minutes.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721396#Comment_118721396

Stop bringing right wing politics into a left wing thread. You're being ridiculous. TBF, they do support Putin financially but wrong thread for that.

malk518

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721396#Comment_118721396

Fine Gaels government gave Russia today's Irish operation a state subsidy.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rt-s-irish-bureau-gets-state-support-in-form-of-office-at-digital-hub-in-dublin-k7g2vrlk3

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723106#Comment_118723106

Yes, you posted that already. This is not the FG thread though.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721446#Comment_118721446

How do they support Putin financially, exactly, and who are 'they'? Again, maybe take it to the relevant thread.

malk518

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723148#Comment_118723148

Where did I post that? Don't think I did. I think you've me mixed up. As regards the FG comment what difference does it make?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723106#Comment_118723106

That is probably the worst attempt at whataboutery that I have seen on here.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723154#Comment_118723154

The Greens and Sinn Fein voted against sanctions. We need to see who in PBP is helping Putin funnel money through Ireland. What does Paul Murphy know about Irish investing in Russia? We need to know!

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723634#Comment_118723634

The Greens and Sinn Fein voted against sanctions

That is not true about the Greens.

hatrickpatrick

I don't understand it at all, to be honest, and I'd be far further left than most people. All imperialism of every kind is bad. Russian imperialism is bad. Western imperialism is bad. Imperialism with the intention of installing left wing leaders is bad. Imperialism with the intention of installing right wing leaders is bad.

Literally every single possible action which is one nation state trying to subvert the democratic will of the people in another nation state for reasons of political ideology or material gain is evil and wrong. That includes what Russia is doing now and did for a lot of the cold war, and it includes a great many things Western powers have done as well.

I truly don't understand how anyone can possibly fail to see the utter ridiculousness in condemning imperialism conditionally depending on who is doing it. Any action taken by any nation state whose purpose is to overturn or subvert political decisions taken democratically in another nation state is imperialism. Unless there are genuine humanitarian issues at play (human rights violations), such actions are always, always unacceptable.

Danzy

The left today is largely a middle class hobby horse with its own religious belief system.

Events change, their analysis does not.

Doubling down is the only response.

Putin uses some of their tropes and terms, gets buy in, in other cases funds grease the wheels of the people's revolution.