Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483685#Comment_119483685

This is incoherent nonsense.

First you say:

Himars and M777 howitzers didn't do any help.

Then you say as an example of how Ukrainian capabilities are aided by NATO:

The USA satellites from space sending information about targets directly into Himars rocket systems

You can't even keep your story straight. This is what happens when you just regurgitate propaganda without any assessment or understanding you're being lied to.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483836#Comment_119483836

Where are you from? If they haven't even started yet and that's their build up then it's probably the most embarrassing build up ever.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482968#Comment_119482968

Earlier in this thread you posted material from TASS in support of your case. And now you try to rubbish Deutsche Welle . Do you take us all for total fools or useless idiots?

kernkraft500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483836#Comment_119483836

yeah, he hasn't started because he can't

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483685#Comment_119483685

Claim that the oppositions air force is destroyed and yet cannot obtain air superiority to support the land invasion, like 1940 all over again.

Claims of wonder weapons.

Claims of the oppositions new weapons systems being useless, but then contradicting yourself.

Complaining that Russian only using professional army when they are using badly trained conscripts and mercenaries

Not even 9.30 and the whole bingo card is full.

bobowen

The interesting thing about this conflict is how insignificant air superiority is with the advances in Anti Aircraft Defence systems. Drones and guided missiles seem to be the primary weapons of choice when two modern well equipped armies are engaged. Unlike the middle east where Air to Ground attacks seemed to be the primary mode of attack.

johnnyskeleton

Mod Note:

Revolution 1917 banned for trolling for 1 month. Please do not reply to his posts until his return.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484191#Comment_119484191

Air superiority is very significant. But as usual Russia messed it up.. Same as losing their black sea flagship to a nation with no navy to speak of.

bobowen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485064#Comment_119485064

Well that's the narrative theory isn't it. Russia is inept. Blah Blah Blah.

Military people however, including the pro west article below, see a complete shift in how wars will be fought in the future. Air denial rather than air attack is the future according to this article.

https://warontherocks.com/2022/06/in-denial-about-denial-why-ukraines-air-success-should-worry-the-west/

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485196#Comment_119485196

From your source

"One aviation expert, Justin Bronk, explained that Russia's trouble could be down to its lack of precision guided munitions (PGMs).

"This not only indicates a very limited familiarity with PGMs among most Russian fighter crews, but also reinforces the widely accepted theory that the Russian air-delivered PGM stockpile is very limited," Bronk said to AFP.'

So yes ...Russia is inept, ill equiped, etc etc

If the west need to worry about future air superiority then as a russian pilot I would be very, very worried.

pixelburp

In actual news: I've seen the last few days a number of strikes within and into Crimea; that has surprised me quite a lot. Hadn't expected Ukraine to make more aggressive actions. Maybe it's tactic of "while you were looking over here..." WRT to Russia's focus on the East, force them to pull troops away from the increasingly stale frontline of Donbas et al. I can't see Ukraine being in a position to actually make gains into the region, not without first locking down the Eastern regions. But then again?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/17/russians-are-realising-crimea-is-not-a-place-for-them-says-zelenskiy

Brussels Sprout

The situation developing in the Kherson region is fascinating. The Russians have roughly 20k troops on the north side of the Dniepr river. There are only 3 crossings. The Ukrainians have been using HIMARs to repeatedly damage the two Antonovsky bridges and also a smaller bridge adjacent to the Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectirc Dam. The upshot of all this is that the Russians cannot effectively resupply those troops north of the river. They have been using barges to move people, vehicles and goods across but these are slow and very limited. Russian army engineers have repaired the bridges a number of times but everytime they do the Ukrainians simply target them again.

The Russian troops north of the Dniepr only have three realistic options:

• Attempt to flee back over the river and give up the north side of the river (including the strategic city of Kherson). This in itself would be risky as any mass of troops waiting by the river would be a sitting target for Ukrainian artillery. In this scenario it's quite likely they would use Ukrainian citizens as human shields in order to prevent any bombardment.
• Stay and fight and inevitably lose in much the way that the Ukrainian army did in Mariupol when they were cut off from resupply.
• Surrender to the Ukrainians (probably unlikely and only a last resort)

The Russians have been planning on holding a referendum in Kherson in order to give their occupation a veneer of legitimacy but it's difficult to see how they can pull that off if they cannot even supply the city now.

I think this is the most interesting part of the country to keep an eye on over the next few weeks.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482581#Comment_119482581

"Fighting until the last Ukrainian" - it's funny the way you always think the Ukrainians have no agency of their own.

In your view, they are mindless drones who don't get to make a decision of whether to fight or not.

Edit:

Will leave this here, as responded to before, but I subsequently saw the Mod request not to respond.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489498#Comment_119489498

It's a continuous theme throughout this thread when those who lean Russian, or affect neutrality, post various shades of BothSides'isms. This constant refrain that amounts to making the Ukraines mindless pawns; unwitting and incapable of their own decisions or strategies. They simply don't exist in these posters' minds as having any agency in their own destiny. Oh no, it's NATO, the EU, the US calling the shots - never Ukraine.

Poor useless souls at the whim of geopolitical winds. It's obnoxiously patronising, apart from anything else. As well as ironic, really. In doggedly pursuing this Wester-Imperialist agenda, decrying the non-existence of Ukranian self-determination, these posters themselves rob Ukraine of the very independence they claim doesn't exist anyway.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482775#Comment_119482775

As regards the 3400 civilians killed by the Russians, their proxies and as a consequence of the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the significant majority of those - including those civilians killed by Russian proxies in the MH-17 incident occurred in 2014/15. Thereafter, the numbers killed were about 30-50 (and decreasing as Zelensky sought de-escalation) per year - of which c 50% were killed by landmines

bobowen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489557#Comment_119489557

Yes. The Ukrainian army didn't kill anyone in 2014/15 did they fash? They just sat there knitting and scrapbooking whilst the rebels killed their own women and children.

Here's just three western sources with separate plea's to the Ukrainian forces to stop the unguided missiles and indiscriminate shelling of civilian area's from that time.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/civilians-killed-injured-donetsk-ukraine-shelling

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/10/ukraine-forces-must-stop-firing-civilians-after-nine-killed-donetsk/

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489963#Comment_119489963

The actions of the Ukrainian army were covered in my statement "... and as a consequence of the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine" - if you think otherwise, please provide a report for actions of the Ukrainian army killing civilians in 2013.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489963#Comment_119489963

Yet again, who invaded who? If Russia weren’t invading Ukraine in 2014, then there would be no one dying as a result of it.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485196#Comment_119485196

I don't have the link, but a UK MOD briefing to-day said that the inadequate and inept use of explosive reactive armour was a significant factor in Russian Tank casualties They put it down to inadequate training and battlefield discipline. This ties in with previous assessments (from the USA, for one) that the Russian army was especially lacking in experienced, well-trained NCOS.

Of course you can feel free to dismiss what as I say because I am referring to biased Western sources. You might then try to square this with reference to well-known facts about flying tank turrets.

Economics101

Here's the link I referred to in the previous post:https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1560159419379466241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1560159419379466241%7Ctwgr%5E45dbce9eedc8e72ef454f4d2008a4222294a1ca9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2058195983%2Frussia-threadbanned-users-in-op%2Fp1770

bobowen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490131#Comment_119490131

Yet again, if the CIA/Nazi coup hadn't overthrown the democratically elected government in early 2014 there would have been no need for Russia to protect the ethnic Russian populations of Crimea and the Donbass.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490232#Comment_119490232

The government were deposed by a parliamentary vote. It had lost its mandate.

Why didnt the government sign the EU trade treaty as per its democratic mandate?

Russian interference, economic pressure and threatening economic war. In violation of Budapest agreement.

It wasnt a coup. It was a democratic revolution.

Yanukovych fled with his ill gotten gains to Russia instead of standing for re-election in the democratic and free election as per the brokered agreement. Which says it all.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490232#Comment_119490232

Take a step back. A Russian stooge was in power and went against the wishes of the population and cancelled the deal with the EU. The people have every right to pick who governs. He left the position after he ordered the murder of innocent protesters. Everything that has happened is due to Russia interfering in a sovereign nation.

bobowen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490333#Comment_119490333

Here is the BBC report stating that the first shots were fired by a sniper from the protesting organisers AKA The right wing militia's. The BBC being remarkably impartial in the early days. Around Minute 12 of the report the BBC reporter quotes an investigator who states that the massacre at Maidan "was the culmination of a carefully worked out plot. The aim of which was to cause maximum chaos. But his investigations are constantly being blocked by the courts". These are the courts of the post Maidan government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJhJ6hks0Jg

Add to that the leaked Victoria Nuland phone call below on February 4th before the shootings discussing with the US Ambassador to Ukraine how to get the leader they wanted (Yatsenyuk) to take power after the coup. In the call she also says she wants Yatsenyuk to talk to the Leader of Svoboda (formerly the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The Ukrainian Nazi party basically) Oleh Tyahnybok at least 4 times a week when Yatsenuk ousts Yanukovych after the coup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

This was an orchestrated coup. Even the BBC thought so. You can believe otherwise if that suits your non critical thinking theory.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490798#Comment_119490798

There were hundreds of thousands of protestors on the streets.

The CIA couldn't do that even if they wanted to.

That's not a coup.

It was followed by a free and fair democratic election in 2014 to elect a new President after Yanukovych high tailed it to Russia. A real election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_presidential_election#International_observers

Unlike in gangster dictatorship Russia and its sham elections.

Also you claimed that:

"This was an orchestrated coup. Even the BBC thought so."

This is a deliberate attempt at misrepresenting the contents of the video in order to deceive.

This is what the BBC piece you linked to actually said:

"We don't know who fired the first shots,."

Many Ukranians believe the shootings on the 20th were a provocation planned and orchestrated by Moscow... Russians counter that Maidan was a CIA inspired coup. Neither side offers credible evidence for its claims.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490798#Comment_119490798

Regardless who fired the first shots, the Russian stooge ordered his men to open fire on unarmed protesters, not to take out one person with a gun, but to take out as many as possible. The people wanted him out after he went against their wishes. It’s simple. If your head wasn’t so far up Putins ass where you’re now his mouthpiece, you would realise that without Russian interference in a sovereign country, there would be no war now, and there would have been no one killed. It is all 100% The fault of The Russian murdering and raping regime (regardless if they are men, women or, children!)

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490798#Comment_119490798

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJhJ6hks0Jg

From 13.15 (your own link)

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485893#Comment_119485893

Doesn't seem to be same furious response as to some other blows delivered by Ukraine against their military, like the Moskva sinking or forcing them to evacuate Snake Island.

I suppose however these attacks happened (Ukrainian govt. "supporters", special forces, spies & saboteurs inside Crimea, new weapons or a combination) it doesn't look great at all for Russia. Maybe better to stay quiet, say nothing much about it.

One of the legions of Russia-supporters and friends here if irc made the claim that in his personal experience Crimeans (post 2014) were pleased and thankful to Putin and the little green men and satifsfied with being part of Russia, rather than Ukraine etc.

That such attacks can be pulled off against big Russian military bases inside Crimea tends to suggest it is not quite as stable as he claimed + Russia is now going to have doubts about being able to operate safely there + may need to expend alot more resources on securing the place.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490232#Comment_119490232

And tell me if the democratically elected government was left in place , then who would protect the Ukr speaking UKranians in the rest of Ukraine?

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490798#Comment_119490798

God, Russia is so innocent in your eyes. Will you tell us why Russia is interfering, occupying annaxed various parts of sovereign countries eg Georgia, tTransnistra, Crimea, part of China.