Aodhán Ó Ríordáin wants to ban single sex schools

Ballycommon Mast

I believe that if the "far right" ever take off in this country, it will be because of people like O'Riordain trying to force their ultra woke ideas on middle Ireland. https://www.thejournal.ie/labour-schools-education-5675662-Feb2022/

Witcher

This is one of the issues in politics, every TD wants a hobby horse policy they can say they introduced thinking they'll be today's Noël Browne. Whip up a furor about a vaguely topical non issue and away we go.

They see an 'in' and they just go for it.

Ballycommon Mast

I am surprised that Alan Kelly who I always thought was a down to earth Tipperary man is supporting this kind of nonsense

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232172/aodhan-o-riordain-wants-to-ban-single-sex-schools

Sorry but that is far from 'ultra woke', the notion that most of our public secondary schools aren't mixed is archaic and rooted in a Catholic fear of the opposite sex. We need to get with the times a bit here

There are only a few countries with a higher percentage of kids in single sex schools, and they're not countries Irish people would naturally identify with.

Witcher

Finian McGrath tried similar a few years ago against legally held firearms. Thought he was leading some kind of anti gun charge and made a complete show of himself in front of an Oireachtas committee on it making all sorts of claims he couldn't back up. These people are shameless, they'll cast their lines and it there are no bites, sure go again.

Fidelma Healy Eames too, stoking the fires about the evils of the internet a few years ago and when she made a fool of herself pronouncing Wifi as Wiffy, tries to play it off as a French pronunciation. Then when she's rounded on as being clueless 'this is why we need regulation'.

As with most things here, the answer is never allow choice or offer alternatives, it's just 'ban it'. Great.

This is just another inoffensive policy being cast into the water to see if there are any takers, if it succeeds great, if it fails; nobody cared anyway.

As opposed to committing to a policy on health or justice which if it fails could end a career. These politicians want to do just enough to get over the next election hill but don't want to risk sticking their head too far over the parapet.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606450#Comment_118606450

Theres no fear of the opposite sex, nor is there any legislation preventing mixed schools or hampering them in any way.

If single sex schools still exist, so what? Nobody is forcing parents or their children to attend them. They can always go to a mixed school instead.

seamus

Why is it "ultra woke"?

Single-sex schools serve no purpose. Why should children be segregated by gender in school when the rest of their life will involve no segregation at all? It's mental when you think about it. Even more mental that anyone would get worked up enough about defending it.

It's probably not the most burning of issues, but seems like a very easy one to sort, so why not. Children who attend mixed sex schools produce better socially-rounded adults. It also provides a lot more opportunities for individual children in terms of study. Many single-sex schools do not offer some subjects because of a lack of demand. Girls' schools often don't offer subjects like physics, applied maths or woodworking, while boys' schools may not offer music or a wide choice of languages.

There's a long-held belief that girls do better in single-sex schools, but modern data is not finding that this actually holds up. Previous studies were probably done in decades where girls in co-ed schools were routinely discriminated against and intimidated in school, resulting in poorer performance.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232172/aodhan-o-riordain-wants-to-ban-single-sex-schools

are you from Afghanistan?

KaneToad

I think this is one of the rare occasions that I agree with O'Ríordain.

Segregation by sex, in education, is a bizarre concept.

Ash.J.Williams

it would be interesting to see women in our Elitist schools and how it changes the system

Jequ0n

What’s woke about this?

I am not a fan of banning things but I can’t see a benefit to single sex schools.

growleaves

I see nothing wrong with single-sex schools so I can't understand the passionate hatred against them. It definitely touches on a nerve for a lot of people.

Notmything

Tbh I have no problem with this and don't get the "wokeness" claims.

Co-ed schools are not new and nobody was calling them woke when I attended one 20 years ago.

Ballycommon Mast

There are many many parents in Ireland who want a single sex education for their children. Back in the early 2010s when Ruairi Quinn was minister for education, he tried to make schools allow cheap generic uniforms but when parents were asked, the vast majority said leave the uniforms alone

Obviously O Riordan is a massive populist nimby type politician but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong here. Usual boards stick to label something woke when it’s not agreed with.

Now maybe, ban is a strong word but schools are going the co Ed route anyway by necessity. Most new schools opening are co-ed and there will be more and more amalgamations in the future due to numbers etc. Any gaelscoileanna, ET schools, community schools are all co-educational. There might still be single sex schools in the bigger built up urban areas for a couple of more decades to cater for that parental choice if that’s what is wanted.

From a practical point of view, co-ed is a better model for secondary schools at the very least as it allows a school to offer much more subjects than your traditional Home Ec in the girls school, Woodwork in the boys school (not everywhere - I know there are lots of exceptions to this).

Not sure on the complete research but it can’t be good for one gender not to be socialising with the other one til they’re 12 or 18? I know when I was in college, the research was there that boys fare better in co educational schools than in all boys schools and I’ve experienced enough to agree with that.

Strumms

Think of the cost of just adapting boys schools to include female bathrooms…or visa versa…you could be talking 50,000 per school at minimum to provide two or three more toilets..

731 secondary schools..

that’s roughly…

36.5 million…. Just for bathroom adaptations and building additional ones…

great value for the taxpayers…. Anyone on a hospital waiting list will be thrilled with that little doozy….

growleaves

'Obviously O Riordan is a massive populist nimby type politician but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong here. Usual boards stick to label something woke when it’s not agreed with.'

Perhaps but I recall O Riordan saying a few years ago that single-sex schools were "barbarism".

There's a difference between saying well co-educational schools are better because x, y and z and framing it as some kind of acrimonious crusade.

O Riordan has also talked bitterly about his own school days. He fell out with the whole school or something like that.

tjhook

If somebody was to ask whether or not parents should have a choice to send their child to a mixed school rather than single-sex, I think nearly everybody would say "Yes, it should be an available choice".

Surely the same should go for the reverse. Why remove the choice?

Some people seem to think It's fine to deny others a choice because they know better.

Jequ0n

@Ballycommon Mast

“There are many many parents in Ireland who want a single sex education for their children”

Fair enough, but why? What are the concerns?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606648#Comment_118606648

Good question but then we should also ask what are the concerns of the people who want to ban these schools and seemingly view them with extreme, unexplained bitterness.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606681#Comment_118606681

Yes of course. As stated above I am not a fan of banning things.

Having grown up in a country in which most schools are mixed I cannot see what the concerns would be. To me it just seems perfectly natural to have girls and boys “grow up” together in the same school.

I am genuinely curious in the discussion.

I have to laugh.. no, really I do.

Boys and girls learn differently. They respond better to different types of teaching formats/disciplines in their lessons. Since mixed schools have become all the rage, we've seen a massive drop in the success rates of male students. In the last decade or so, there was enormous pressure to bring into effect teaching that would improve female student success rates, but that, in turn, affected the success of male students who didn't respond as well to that shift in focus. (although there's little real concern about those falling grades for boys)

Single sex schools offer the chance to have teaching formats that are aimed specifically at each gender. That's why they're a good idea.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606648#Comment_118606648

Two of my mates went to all male schools. We were talking with one set of parents on a night out a while ago and asked what made them send him to an all male school. Their reasoning was that there would be less distractions with no females to be flirting with or showing off to while in school. No doey eyes across the classroom to his little girlfriend, or not wanting to go into school and have to see them after a break up. Which I think is reasonable enough.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606483#Comment_118606483

Well in some areas parents are forced to send their kids because there are not other options.

Also you have schools like in Caherdavin in Limerick which are right next door to each other. Literally next door but because they are single sex the state have to pay out for double of everything.

The idea this is "woke" shows how pathetically sad and Americanised some people have become.

Chips Lovell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606483#Comment_118606483

That's a bit misleading. It's like saying nobody is forcing you to send your kids to a Catholic school. The reality is that, in many areas, you've the choice between sending your kids to a single sex school or driving them some distance to a mixed school that few of the other local kids are going to.

tjhook

I don't think it matters why a parent chooses to send a child to either a mixed- or single-sex school. They can and will do either today if they want to do the best for their child. It's arrogant for a person to go out of their way to deny them that choice by banning single-sex schools. If you want to choose one or other for your child, who am I to say "No, you shouldn't have that choice - I know what's better for your child".

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606740#Comment_118606740

They are hardly paying for double of everything - were the schools to be merged, there wouldnt be massive amount of redundancy. Classrooms and staff are all necessary to cater for the number of students. Thats hardly going to change if you double both the students and the staff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606744#Comment_118606744

The same argument could be made for sending children to a single sex school or gaelscoil either. Outright bans just limit people's choice.

breezy1985

Out of curiosity why do people who like same sex schools choose them ?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606408#Comment_118606408

satire ? or you really actually had some faith left in alan kelly ?

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606483#Comment_118606483

Maybe not now, but I'd be fairly sure part of the reason for the prevalence of single sex schools in the past was that teenagers couldnt be trusted with the opposite sex. Catholic guilt and all that.

Fee paying schools should be allowed to do what they want, but public schools should be mixed. You say nobody is forcing children to attend single sex schools but as many others have also pointed out, in lots of places in Ireland there is simply no other option. In my local town, the options were to go to either of the single sex schools or to the mixed vocational school. Unfortunately that meant there really wasn't much of a choice if a student had any sort of academic interest, the single sex schools were the only option