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DF Commission Report

1121315171828

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In Submissions to the Commission if i remember correctly i think AGS made a submission about clarifying roles on national security. Did government say anything would be done on clearing up that issue?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As far as I can see, they did not.

    In fact, the idea of AGS opining on national security matters in a public forum, is bonkers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A very serious business! Almost bloody hopeless! Somebody needs to think outside the box here to find a solution. Maybe consider raising a regiment overseas, as other countries have done, EG. France, Spain, Britain Germany, the Vatican...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    And johnny's goin back on ignore for a while...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Sob 😭



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    A good interview with the CoS on defence force podcast series there before Christmas. He touched on a lot of issues, but he sees the reforms as a medium term project inc recruitment/ retention. Not a huge level of specifics but and interesting overview perspective on the changes etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I know there is is still issues with T&Cs of service and hours worked but 37k is not bad starting pay. There is jobs out there that require a level 9 that dont start on that pay



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Took me 10 years in my present job to reach that level.

    There is however a large cohort of exers and others who will dismiss any progress being made.

    Better accom? "We shared a 10 foot by 20 foot cabin , all 40 of us and we were happy- modern generation is too soft!"

    Better wages? "If the govermen didnt make things so expensive, they woulnt need better pay! I scraped by on 20 pounds a week once I paid my Ma rent and cleared my mess tab."

    New Equipment? "Who they gonna get to drive/fly/sail them. We should keep the antiques we have in use and pay the lads properly first (see above). The 1950s era Armoured vehicle/ship/aircraft I used in the 1980s is miles better than anything modern"

    Gender/Diversity/Bullying? "Woke nonsense! We had NCOs that used to beat us to death daily, then rape our corpse, and it made us the men we are!"

    And don't get me started on the Opposition in Government, who want everyone to start on 50k a year, but at the same time oppose any increase in defence spending.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its good to see these updates being fulfilled on time and keeping the process honest. Can't tell you how many times I've seen public sector plans left to drift with implementation not managed in any cohesive way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Thing is, that update was due in January. The creep has already begun.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The role of chief of defence is still with the AG . A lot of works seams to be going on to create this role.

    Office of Army Force Design, will this see a major transformation of the current Army?

    Its really good to see that the primary radar is being acted on, hopefully next year we will see a tender for it.

    Finland gets a few mentions in the report could the finish forces be the template they are going to use



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The Army Orbat has remained unchanged since its foundation a century ago, still infantry focused, with Combat Support and Combat service support in diminishing levels of priority. Names may have changed here and there but we are still designed around fighting WW2.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Isn't that the question he's asking though, will be structure be completely revised under the Plan? We know what the extant organisation is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    My point is, it is obvious (I thought) that it must change.

    We are so far behind though, is there the appetite for the transformation that is necessary?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Depends who you think might be hungry.

    I've no doubt, personally, that the professional military officers at general staff and senior operational command levels, will be only too delighted to be asked to expand the military against a benchmark of modern European fighting forces. Its what they have trained and studied for the last 30 or 40 years, while serving in a DF that was the poor relation to just about everything and everyone.

    I also think the ordinary ranks will embrace the opportunities for serious career advancement and earning potential, including more adventurous service overseas and in cooperation with other European forces. Not to mention the improvement in conditions and representation.

    At Government level, the buy-in appears to be strong and for Micheál Martin, like Coveney before him, there could be a great legacy in making the Navy and any future joint force presence in Cork Harbour into a major employer, centre of excellence and strong community pillar, just for instance.

    I believe the Sec Gen McCrum in DoD is strongly committed too and hopefully she has the leadership skills to bring the Department along with her, by phasing in increased resources and opportunities for the civilian element of the defence sector.

    Do you feel there is a weak appetite in a particular area?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    DPER.

    It has resisted any and all attempts to fix issues with DF pay and allowances, as well as increasing the defence budget, at every opportunity. Even the ARW allowance, which other courts outside the state have ordered must be backdated, has yet to be paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Role of over seeing Army Force Design is a tempoary role. We could see a recently retired general from another nation apply for the role with modern thinking



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Fair point.

    At least so far the Government pushed through the first of the big budget increases and procurement on some of the significant capital items.

    I guess we will see whether or not MM has the mettle to keep the pressure on Paschal and his mandarins to address the remuneration issues and hoover up the many small issues that need tackling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Talk is cheap but whiskey costs money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,279 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    RTÉ saying there is a tidal wave of awful allegations in the report.

    bullying and toxic culture

    assaults - physical, sexual, verbal

    rape

    katy Hannon on morning Ireland now tearing into the PDF



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    That would be a different report. See other thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There is nothing like a strongly worded letter from county councillors to get things moving




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    And at the end of the day pretty much all the politicians think that is the sum value of the DF, local employment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Bleedin gombeen men. Haven't a clue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The office of army force design that will reshape the army, Is there already an idea of what needs to be done or will this office look at all possabile ideas with nothing of the table?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,791 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Unlike the completely non-strategic approach to Defence for the last 70 years, they'll have to approach it from the standpoint of, 'what do we require of a national defence structure and how soon do we want to get there?'

    The Commission report gives a good overall ballpark in terms of the command and control, joint force structure, service equivalency and for the Army specifically, being able to field the equivalent of a small mechanized division with all its operational and support units, with increased firepower and up-armoured IFVs, along with improved capacity in the intelligence and cyber defence commands, under the Army umbrella.

    Whatever way the implementation group bring all these elements to the table, one thing is for sure, they've got a mother****er of a job on their hands.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,580 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I would say there will be a lot of Army Colonel's looking on with interest



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