These upcoming Carbon Tax measures in May . . . PR disaster ? Own goal ? or Necessary evil ?

Apothic_Red

So the idea of these carbon taxes are to reduce usage & make us consider better choices.

Yet petrol has gone from €1.18 a litre back in Lockdown #1 to €1.70+ now. I'm guessing but I'd imagine the ordinary punter is just ponying up the difference & still probably some years away from considering electric options.

I can only see these further taxes being a PR disaster for the government yet they still seem committed to this path. I wonder how it will play out.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231768/these-upcoming-carbon-tax-measures-in-may-pr-disaster-own-goal-or-necessary-evil

As with their last stint in Government, all the "Greens" in this country have managed to do is make things more expensive for the average citizen under the guise of saving the bunnies or whatever. If they had their way we'd own nothing, and live like peasants while the likes of China pollute more than Ireland ever will.

But, FF and FG are more afraid of SF (And more importantly, losing their grip on power which is why they agreed to Confidence and Supply, and then outright Coalition in the first place), and so the Greens will get to push their agenda some more (despite increasing rumblings apparently) as FF/FG need them for now.

Instead we'll get 100-200 off the electric/gas bill (not sure if that's total or each actually!) and maybe some tinkering on prescription costs and the fuel allowance - but very little for those who are actually paying for everything in this country!

Dempo1

Not at all sure what to make of it all but the rather annoying Neasa Hourigan, was on Claire Byrne show earlier and she as good as said there's an organised conspiracy against the carbon taxes.

Apothic_Red

I dunno, there's an element of hopelessness about the whole thing.

China have 43 new coal burning stations at construction or planning stage.

https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/

Penalising ourselves through carbon taxes has the whiff of hitting yourself with a stick for no reason.

Brussels Sprout

Are they necessary? Yes

Will they be popular? No

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594979#Comment_118594979

Why are they necessary?

BluePlanet

Well one thing is certain, the US have successfully engineered a propaganda campaign to finger China instead of themselves.

Per capital, China's emissions are half as much as the US. The US withdrew from Kyoto and since, simply don't have to report any CO2 emissions from their military, which is massive.

Infact, estimates put US military C02 emissions more than entire countries.

And that is only going to go up since they keep spending more and more money into it.

You'd have to wonder about US emissions reporting, since they are basically incentivized to categorize as many emission sources as possible as 'military', therefore off books.

Brucie Bonus

Lowest hanging fruit money grab with no new thought in 20 years.

We need to do something and this is the easiest.

Thelonious Monk

We import loads of stuff from China, we fuel their economy. We pollute more per capita than them and our island is a biodiversity wasteland with almost no natural forest. We are part of the EU which is half a billion people and a massive trading partner with China.

I know Ireland can't make a difference but we are part of the problem and part of the EU which is a massive polluter and China's largest customer to where they can export their crap, so it is us fueling their factories by outsourcing our dirty work.

Countries will go to war rather than compromise their standards of living, so you don't need to worry about any proper changes coming in any time soon but pointing the finger at China really annoys me as we are actually worse than they are.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595913#Comment_118595913

This is an excellent point. People are very quick to point the finger at others when it comes to greenhouse gas emissions (and destruction of biodiversity) but very reluctant to look at their own consumption and usage habits.

Another example of this phenomena are headlines like "Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions". It almost implies that these energy companies are extracting these hydrocarbons and somehow sending them directly into the atmosphere for profit in some kind of closed system. It completely ignores the reality that they're providing the energy input that maintains the standard of living at the level demanded by the citizens of countries throughout the world. Simplistic headlines like that put the blame squarely on the energy companies while letting the end consumer of that energy and the products produced from it (disproportionately, people living in the developed world) off the hook.

daheff

I mean, I know we need to reduce carbon pollution, but how does this tax achieve it?

Will it reduce most people's electricity, gas or petrol/diesel usage? Most likely only those at the bottom rung of the ladder who cannot afford it anymore. Most others will just keep using as they did and end up paying more.

Who gets the additional taxes? EU for some 'development' fund.

Sounds like a reasonably good idea, but not working for me.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596165#Comment_118596165

Who gets the additional taxes?

This is what was in the Programme for Government on the topic:

We will legislate to hypothecate all additional carbon tax revenue into a Climate Action Fund raising an estimated €9.5 billion over the next ten years. This Fund will be utilised over that period to:

1. Ensure that the increases in the carbon tax are progressive by spending €3 billion on targeted social welfare and other initiatives to prevent fuel poverty and ensure a just transition
2. Provide €5 billion to part fund a socially progressive national retrofitting programme targeting all homes but with a particular emphasis on the Midlands region and on social and low-income tenancies.
3. Allocate €1.5 billion to a REPS-2 programme to encourage and incentivise farmers to farm in a greener and more sustainable way. This funding will be additional to funding from the Common Agricultural Policy. It will include incentives to plant native forestry and to enhance and support biodiversity

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596303#Comment_118596303

Haha yeah but this is the Irish government we’re talking about… will literally any of that happen? I’d be very skeptical!

The cost of living is sky rocketing and the easiest most simple thing the government could do to help out right now is to postpone the carbon tax increase… but no… they double down and then try to convince us a €100 off our bills will fix everything! They can Foxtrot Oscar!