Whoopie Goldberg is a racist now

Ray Palmer

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60209527

I for a long time have felt that the americanisation of discussion heavily tanints the western view of racism. Here we have Whoppie Goldberg say she only ever thought racism could be based on skin colour. When Jeremy Clarkson made a racist comment and hit his producer people in Ireland claimed it wasn't racist because we aren't a race. The general ignorance of people is quite shocking. Most people would have said Whoopie would understand racism but I would always question why any person would understand racism of another country. Ireland in particular has a complicated relationship with discrimination where many claim it is just sectarian when religion was really just the identifier to know where you come from and whether you were British or Irish. Race includes cultural differences and we have a problem with racism with Travelers which people often ignore. What would your average American know about such racism?

NSAman

Live by the sword, die by the sword. That’s the saying isn’t it?

Ah Whoopie's alright. She's made a few howlers over the years and she's said some good things as well.

From her side it's a semantic point and she accepted what she was told and apologised. There's basically no story here.

silliussoddius

Race isn't so black and white.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566147#Comment_118566147

Do you really think she only heard about the Nazis yesterday and then was corrected and she changed her mind now? From her point it was semantic but it isn't even close and requires willful ignorance. I do not think she changed her mind just that her view upset people so she apologised.

Whoopie is always getting up to semantics.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566138#Comment_118566138

The original is from the Bible, where Jesus is rebuking a disciple for cutting off the ear of a servant of the High Priest. There are various translations of the original Greek and Latin. "His" here would read "Its" today. Also versions were in use in ancient Greece.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566207#Comment_118566207

So you're saying her point was... Anti-semantic?

Quantum Erasure

Jumpin' jack Flash!

Apiarist

So you all agree with Hitler, who stated that Jews are a race?

Personally, I agree with Goldberg, the Holocaust is an example of the inhumanity to others. In particular, the inhumanity which stems from the artificial division of people into "desirable" and "undesirable" categories. A lunatic in power can declare cyclists to be a race that needs to be exterminated, it does not mean that it's a truth.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566816#Comment_118566816

Yeah, it was a case of someone determining races. She wasn't trying to downplay what happened or delve into denial nonsense. Race is in the eye of the beholder, Victorian English didn't have a nice attitude to their fellow white Irish, or the DUP to their white papist brethren. Some people within a race are more equal than others.

AllForIt

Arn't surnames that end in berg of Jewish origin, like Zuckerberg, Spielberg. So you'd think someone with a surname of Goldberg would.....oh never mind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566207#Comment_118566207

Did she deny the events? Or was she making the (until recently fairly accepted but now apparently hate-crime) idea that killing due to religion rather than skin colour isn't quite the same as racism based on skin colour.

She didn't suggest there was no systematic slaughter of the Jews or that the Nazis weren't trying to eradicate them.

She was talking about the semantics around the discussion behind the reasoning of the Nazi's plans. I've spent a stupid amount of time reading about the war and the holocaust (and still have huge blindspots) and am still trying to find some kind of thread of logic through some of it (because some just makes no sense even within the parameters of the time). All she did was try make (again, until recently a pretty acceptable at least) the point that racism and religious discrimination aren't the same thing. She may very well not know the fractions defined in purity laws. She may even know some Jews (imagine!) and know about traditionally it passes down the mother's side so just assumed it was that way.

Or she just knows what 90% of people (maybe less considering the holocaust deniers) know which is that the Nazis tried to wipe out the Jews. Jews are a religious group so it follows (in common parlance) it was sectarian/religious rather than racial.

But yeah, it's really a non-story.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566921#Comment_118566921

I was going to say, Goldberg sounds like something you'd come up with if you wanted to make up a stereotypical jewish name, ...

About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black", and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays."[16] She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'"[16] One account recalls that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough" for her daughter to become a star.[16] Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were African Americans, that she had no known German or Jewish ancestry, and that none of her ancestors were named Goldberg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopi_Goldberg

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566990#Comment_118566990

I was going to say, Goldberg sounds like something you'd come up with if you wanted to make up a stereotypical jewish name, ...

Yeah, especially the Gold part. God forgive me for making Jewish jokes in a racism thread.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566921#Comment_118566921

Yes, Goldberg definitely sounds like one of them Jew names.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567623#Comment_118567623

Jew-ish

McGinniesta

Oddly, this comment will do more to finish her career than any lack of talent or output.

McGinniesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567623#Comment_118567623

She chose that name. That isnt her birth name.

TooTired123

What a thumping bore she is. She knows in her heart that she’s outstayed her welcome in the public eye. She’s got many more years out of her career then her talent actually warranted through Making these kind of outrageous statements. This latest stunt just exposes her lack of education and inability to think rationally. Im glad we on this side of the pond aren’t having her shoved down our throats as she is in the UK.

Fitz II

zv2

This is what happens when mere presenters and actors think they are professors just because the spotlight is on them. Leave it to the professionals Whoopie.

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230804/whoopie-goldberg-is-a-racist-now

‘When Jeremy Clarkson made a racist comment and hit his producer people in Ireland claimed it wasn't racist because we aren't a race. The general ignorance of people is quite shocking.’

You say that as though it’s since been settled that it was racist. I continue to believe it embarrassing to call it racist.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566979#Comment_118566979

Considering how high profile the question of race is in the US, this does seem a little bit myopic. As a seasoned presenter it should have been obvious to her but personal perceptions of race issues can really narrow how people view the world. For the network it's not a non-story and it's a pretty dumb comment to make anywhere but at least she's got two weeks holidays!

Danzy

Whoopi has form with anti semitism.

Nice to see her called out finally.

On a less kind note I thought she was proposition Joe when I saw her recent photo.

timmyntc

She's right though - "Jewish" is not a race, its a religion. Its as much a race as Catholic or Atheist are (they are not).

Funny how nobody ever questioned her faking being Jewish to get ahead in Hollywood for all the years, but they do latch onto this comment. Makes you wonder if theres any truth in that particular myth

seamus

She made a pretty rookie mistake, especially for an American. You're not allowed be remotely negative about Israel or depict World War 2 as anything else except Hitler -v- Jews, or you'll be accused of anti-Semitism.

She's correct to say that the holocaust wasn't just about the Jews. Anyone the Nazis deemed inferior - Jewish or otherwise - were massacred. Like she says, the core point is about how cruel humanity can be to itself, using any nonsense basis on which to justify it.

I mean, I guess she's wrong to say it's not about "race", when it was based on nationalism and belief that Aryans were a superior "race". But that's not really the key element. Any group of people can call themselves (or someone else) a "race" and use that to justify division and brutality.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569485#Comment_118569485

It is both and they were seen as a race in Europe for 1000 years or more. They also often had special rules and the power that having money brings, which in tandem with what their race being blamed for Christ's demise was at the root of why they were targeted down the ages. Nowadays it is more about the faith but it's generally better to acknowledge both.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567913#Comment_118567913

Is that not cultural appropriation?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569485#Comment_118569485

Look up the definition of racism and you will see very clearly "race" is not the only element of it. It isn't up for debate it has a definition. Can you look at Telly Savalas and say he doesn't look Jewish? Jewish is an ethnoreligious group where both religion and ethnicity are combined.

She has been called out on it before many times and it is even mentioned on her Wikipedia page.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569619#Comment_118569619

Do you mean the Greek/American Telly Savalas who was Greek Orthodox Christian? I'd say you could definitely look at him and say he didn't look Jewish because he wasn't.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569386#Comment_118569386

It was settled the minute he did it. The fact some people don't acknowledge or ignorant on what racism means doesn't change it. It was racist end of. Whether it was his primary motivation is the only question but it just seems he was angry but still racist. Being Irish is certainly an ethnic group

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569619#Comment_118569619

What has the definition of racism got to do with it? She said it wasnt about race, not racism. The definition of racism has changed so many times in the last decade to be totally meaningless at this stage anyways.

Up until the last century you could have said that any white person "looked christian", because the overwhelming majority of christians were caucasian. That doesnt mean that christian is a race. Is Buddhist a race, because most buddhists are of a certain ethnicity? Muslim a race? etc. Clearly not, and we wouldnt even entertain the idea. But for some reason Judaism is both religion and ethnicity/race, despite there being no requirement of ethnicity to be Jewish, and Jewish people all over the world displaying different physical and other characteristics.

Unless you seem to think that there is a "Jewish look"? Which is a fairly anti-semitic stereotype

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569617#Comment_118569617

That's a 21st century affectation and it's just a stage name.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569644#Comment_118569644

Did I say he was? What I said was did he look jewish

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569646#Comment_118569646

Christ, the sheer density of this. Not a single argument, just assertion. ‘It was racist end of.’ Groan.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569580#Comment_118569580

Thank you for your "nuanced" views on the Holocaust.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569619#Comment_118569619

She has form.

There would be a strong Anti Semitic undercurrent from her progressive outlook and Anti Semitic views have never been challenged or questioned in the African American community and it's not a niche position.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566816#Comment_118566816

So you all agree with Hitler, who stated that Jews are a race?

The ultimate philosophical battle for the ages. Who are you going to side with - Hitler or Whoopie Goldberg?

To be fair to Hitler, he did kill Hitler.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569737#Comment_118569737

Excellent.lol

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569658#Comment_118569658

Acknowledging differences in appearance between people is not racism. I have never ever heard anybody suggest all white people look christian. It isn't a mystery why Jewish is both a religious term and and ethnic term it just is and not the same as other religions that span multiple ethnicities. The holocaust was about race and not just the Jewish people but also the Gypsies.

She was wrong

Could you spot a person from another country and name that country in a crowd of Irish born people? I could maybe not 100% but there are enough clues and signs to spot many. Could spot a Spanish or French person but to somebody unfamiliar with white people they would all be white. The same way I couldn't tell the difference between black ethnic groups in Africa but somebody there would. This is where Whoopie made her big mistake by not acknowledging that there are differences and races within the colour of peoples' skin. She isn't going to see a difference between a Traveller and person from Madrid.

mikethecop

to be fair racism that doesn't some how benefit African Americans doesn't matter to them

sort of racist isnt it

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569702#Comment_118569702

What is there to argue? He used a racial slur. That was racist.

You can excuse it and say it doesn't bother you but it is what it is. There is no argument to say it isn't no matter what way you twist it. You can say we aren't a race, doesn't matter racism covers different backgrounds and country of origin. It has a definition and by that definition he was racist and not for the first time.

Neyite

She's got form.

She defended Polanski who drugged, raped and sodomised a child by claiming what he did wasn't 'rape rape'. Whatever the hell that means.

Pussyhands

I hear you're a racist now Sister

seamus

The holocaust was about race and not just the Jewish people but also the Gypsies.

But it was also about gay people, disabled people, neurodiverse people, mentally ill people, transgender people, the list goes on.

None of which are a race. It was about race, but in the inverse to how it is usually presented. It wasn't about "We hate Jews and Gypsies because they are inferior", it was, "All races are inferior, all "different" people are inferior".

The hatred levelled specifically at some such as Jews and Gypsies was obviously on another level, but the holocaust wasn't about hating Jews specifically.

Anyway, the whole notion of race is largely becoming obsolete. A simplistic notion for a simplistic time when society could only really contemplate differences between cultures as being related to skin colour.

Ethnicity is more nuanced because it brings in a more true reflection of the ridiculous notions that divide us. If you us the term "race", then you imply that someone with dark skin or who "looks" Asian, can never be <insert traditionally white nationality here>.

A guy with dark skin born to Irish parents, who grew up in Blanchardstown has little in common with his ancestors in Nigeria. He is ethnically Irish, rather than being "black" or "African". While it is of course important to call out and stomp on discrimination on the basis of skin colour or ancestry, the more we bang on about race being a "thing", the longer racism is allowed to exist.

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569792#Comment_118569792

racist for calling him an irish p***k after he served him a cold dinner !! lol you are very sensitive Ray i've lived abroad and have been called far worse,

that irish chap was an embarrassment but he got his free meal ticket out of Clarkson which was probably his plan

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569723#Comment_118569723

There are legitimate reason for disagreement between the Jewish and African American communities. If you look up how public schools are being closed down in New York by Jewish communities that cater mostly for African American communities you can see why. The belief that African Americans can't be racist is one of the biggest con jobs of semantics. Interchanging institutional racism definition with racism to say black people don't have the power to be racist because they don't run the government

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569813#Comment_118569813

None of which changes the fact it was racist. Acknowledging facts is not being sensitive.

The irish chap got death threats and had to move. What free meal ticket did he get?

xzanti

Give them bread and circuses...

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569832#Comment_118569832

Ok Ray if you insist on being a pedantic pat, i say you're very sensitive or super woke at best. What free meal ticket you ask, i think you know i mean the settlement. Not bad for someone who was awful at his job.