Supreme Court Describes Traveller Community as “Vulnerable Minority”

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/supreme-court-judge-describes-traveller-community-as-vulnerable-minority-1251541.html

minority? yes

vulnerable? Surely that’s a fcuking laugh?

ah here

Mr Justice Gerard Hogan said members of the Traveller community have struggled for recognition of their own cultural identity and way of life.

How is this not a wind up? Well isn’t it awful lads that the poor travellers can’t effectively do as they please. The poor craters.

edit: and for what it’s worth I haven’t a problem with (most) travellers I’ve dealt with.

when we got our current gaff we bought the timber floors and some beds and mattresses from a furniture shop owned by travellers. Nothing bad could be said about them whatsoever.

Of course there’s the ones who act like wild animals and if their way of life is being infringed upon then the law of the land is in place and proper order.

cnocbui

Yes, it's a laugh. Vulnerable I'd apply to their settled neighbours, in some instances.

They are vulnerable in the same way someone choosing to drive on the wrong side of the road is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562117#Comment_118562117

Well, as you see, travellers are entitled to live on land that’s not theirs, because the constitution says you’re entitled to a home.

this this end I’m going to stop paying my rent & when I’m brought to an RTB tribunal & potentially court I will recite this part of the article and assert that if the travellers can stay on land that’s not theirs, cos constitution, surely therefore I’m entitled to stay in a house that’s mine, cos constitution?

In fact all homeless people should just let themselves into any vacant property and quote the same. It’s just that easy.

All too often Travellers are evicted from sites by local authorities whose responsibility it is to house them, without any alternative accommodation being offered, and without any assessment by a court of the impact of the eviction on the Travellers’ rights.

if this was a joke it would be fcuking hilarious. But the fact it’s not makes it sickening. How dare the council take their land back!!!!

Jinglejangle69

Between this and today’s amnesty to criminals.

Down the gutter this country is going.

littlevillage

Dangerous precedent being set. Local authorities are going to have to hire armed gaurds to defend their properties from those seeking to 'carpetbag' a piece of free land or a free house

SEPT 23 1989

how much time has Mr “Justice” Gerard Hogan had interaction with the community before he made the judgement?

I would make a guess

0

ParkRunner

One to appeal to Europe?

Limerick Co. Co. will struggle to house that couple and their adult offspring in a manner which is in keeping with their cultural needs. The housing must be provided in advance, the Couple will need to accept it. The Judge has really left the Co. Co. where nothing but a free mansion with space for caravans and a stable will be acceptable to the Couple and the Couple now know that.

I think rather than giving the Couple the Mansion the Council will have to provide a compound with services in an area designated residential even if they have to find that location and redesignate it residential. Present it to the Couple, let the couple reject it and then go back to Court to get their eviction order enforced.

Caving in and gifting a dream home will be counter-productive. Allowing them to remain will mean that others Travellers will follow suit and squat.

Some good might come of it but it is galling either way.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562327#Comment_118562327

Why would Limerick Co. Co. be having anything to do with the family in question when the case was concerned with an order requiring the family to vacate council-owned land in Co. Clare?

It comes as the Supreme Court overturned an injunction from the High Court requiring husband and wife Bernard and Helen McDonagh, their sons and extended family to vacate council-owned land in Co Clare.

iColdFusion

Honest question, what % of traveller do you need to be to get all the free housing, legal immunity and such?

I mean if a traveller girl has some kids with like a Jamican guy, are the kids still travellers and entitled to EU protection or what?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562742#Comment_118562742

My mistake. I'm sure Clare Co. Co. would have loved that it was Limerick Co. Co.s problem.

Do you disagree with any of the points I made otherwise?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562774#Comment_118562774

I do, but I figured you’re not going to let that stop you 😂

For the benefit of the viewers at home which points do you disagree with?

Do you not agree that the Council are between a rock and a hard place in that they can not be seen to reward them for squatting and can not be seen to allow them to remain squatting.

AllForIt

It is quite laughable to think that Travellers are looking for housing off the council, when their way of life, or their 'culture' as they put it, plays no part in the state being able to provide housing to anyone at all.

If everyone had their way of life, there would be no council, no state, no anything.

edit: of course they are 'vulnerable'. Lots of people are vulnerable, that's why we organize our state in the way we do, a semi socialist state. It is not my fault travellers are vulnerable though.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562492#Comment_118562492

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562155#Comment_118562155

If the cap fits......

Who would you suggest the cap fits? Jinglejangle69 or Haphaphap or somebody else. Who are you suggesting is a Racist.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562302#Comment_118562302

None but he likely does move in the same social circles as the kind of media and NGO wanker5 who will cheer on this judgement

katiek102010

Oooh a very dangerous precedent judgment indeed.

This is going to open a huge can of worms and leave every single landowner in a very dangerous position and not just local authorities

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562137#Comment_118562137

your point doesn't work as everything you mention from trespass to breaking and entering are criminal offenses.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562322#Comment_118562322

no as such appeal would not be successful because there is nothing to appeal really as facts are facts.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562759#Comment_118562759

there is no legal immunity for travelers, travelers are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

the issue is lack of gards to enforce the law across the board.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563228#Comment_118563228

Takes some balls to write that with a straight face.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563236#Comment_118563236

not at all, its just the reality.

when people break the law and those charged with enforcing the law are so under resourced they can barely carry out the job then you get a junk show.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563250#Comment_118563250

😂😂 load of shite.

I'm absolutely confident that Mr Justice Gerard Hogan doesn't have a home in a highly affluent neighbourhood where the impact of the Travelling community is non-existent.

Billy Mays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563228#Comment_118563228

Boards traveller hater: "Why is there such a disproportionate number of travellers in the prison population???"

Also Boards traveller hater: "Why is there legal immunity for travellers???"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563228#Comment_118563228

Not enforcing the laws against the Travelling community is discrimination against the rest of us who do.

And not enforcing the laws against the Travelling community is effectively the same as having legal immunity. The net effect is the same.

Dempo1

The Judgement is quite complex and seems astonishing. Whilst Traveller and State lands specific (open to correction) this is going to open the Doors for Trespass wether intended or not. I can gaurentee Farmers and Local Authorities across the country are facing a world of difficulties and substantial expense evicting the Cultural Cohort as they start moving on to private property and local authority lands, watch this space.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563548#Comment_118563548

Couldn't agree more, Ethnic Recognition should not mean carte blanch different strokes for different folks and anyone looking objectively at was has happened since Enda Kennys speech can see there are different rules being applied and a small minority in the Travelling community using every trick in the book to get preferential treatment, particularly in regard to criminal and discrimination law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563615#Comment_118563615

If having ethnic recognition meant that I was born with an inalienable right to commit certain crimes; that has to be the worst ethnicity on the planet and, if I were a member of said "ethnicity", I would revoke my membership in an instant.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563685#Comment_118563685

And there in lies the problem, whilst I'm against discrimination in any form, I've seen, time and time again, all ethnic recognition in this particular case has achieved is created a sense of entitlement, albeit a small minority, to do, say and act as they please with Zero possibility of Sanction. Meanwhile the majority are expected to adhere to rules and laws with absolute sanction if they don't.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563236#Comment_118563236

That or being just mad

Pussyhands

I blame twitter for all this kind of nonsense.

SamStonesArm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563742#Comment_118563742

There does be some fair amount of shite on Twitter alright

Boggles

The back story to this is quite the tale.

I always try and look at both sides of the debate to form an opinion. I'm struggling with this one. They have Clare County Council absolutely withered and the ruling yesterday has to have finished them off.

The millions spent on this so far is a disgraceful waste, when you think where that money could have actually gone.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

Always amazes me how racism is accepted in Ireland just because its against travellers.

Young traveller men are committing suicide in droves because nobody employs them because of their background, they can't walk into a pub without being stared at, renting a property is out of the question as soon as a landlord hears the accent.

There are bad apples in every community but in Ireland its ok to stain an entire community o travellers because of the actions of a few. In my hometown a young traveller man seems to commit suicide every couple of months but once people find out its a traveller they couldn't care less. It's similar to how the Irish were treated in London or Australia in the past and really sad to see how we're no better than that.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

Maybe these men are not getting jobs because they didn't finish school and don't have an education?

Maybe these men are committing suicide because gay men are treated abhorrently in the traveller community?

Maybe these men get dirty looks when walking into a pub because based on previous times, there could very well be trouble.

Travellers gave themselves the bad name. I used to go into the gym and 99% of people were quiet in the changing rooms. These travellers come in and they're loud as hell, talking about their fighting and drinking plans for the evening. Everyone in the gym kept the head down because everyone knows, one bad look and they could start on ya.

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

Its a bed they have made for themselves over many years, there are refugees arriving into Ireland fleeing war and famine with no English who have managed to integrate into Irish society, gain education and employment and contribute to society within a few short years, Travellers have been here generations and still act like neanderthals while the tax paying public pisses away millions of euro each year on them.

They have massive levels of criminality for such a small population %, draining Garda and prison resources never mind the victims of their crimes.

Animal cruelty seems to be part of their culture.

I have never seen a halting site that wasn't a total garbage dump and no-go area for normal people.

Circa 80% unemployment

Etc

Etc

They claim discrimination but generation after generation do absolutely nothing to take responsibility for their own lives, improve their circumstances and contribute to society, its just blame everyone else and beg for government handouts.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

Come the county I grew up in, and I'll introduce you to all the families, I know everyone of them, even many by first name, and then come back to me and say the same thing, because not one of them had a shred of decency, not one. I was even friends with a few of them for awhile, and did the whole "they aren't all the same" stuff, a few months later they robbed me, and caused hell for me around the town by attacking my friends and making said friends turn against me because it was the only way they'd stop looking for fights with them. I was also chased through a field with a machete by a member of the same family, so forgive me if I lack sympathy for them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

The plight of young traveller men is nothing compared to what is done to young traveller women by their own community.

Taking them out of education at a young age, marrying them off in their mid-teens, turning them into baby factories, the hardship that the traveller community inflicts on the majority of its young women is a real problem. These are not isolated incidents, these are cultural aspects of traveller life that need to change.

Many of the problems that young traveller men have relate to their inability to live up to their misogynistic culture and their wish to reject it.

In the same way that mainstream Irish people needed to reject the toxic culture and heritage of the Catholic Church in order to move on and become a better more open and welcoming place, a similar process of rejecting the toxic masculinity of Traveller culture needs to happen. That comes from within though.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563250#Comment_118563250

The are so not under resourced, they get bored to the point where several of them will spend all day forming road blocks to check that all three windscreen discs and rectangles of vehicles are up to date.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563578#Comment_118563578

The government will hopefully update and clarify the laws so that Judges have a better idea what the government really intended with the original wording of the laws.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563211#Comment_118563211

I fully understand the other posters grievance and I can see where he or she is coming from on this. At a time where people are charged record high rents and then this group is allowed stay on this land that,s not theirs rent free' where can the rest of us stay somewhere rent free ? who do we go to ? what avenue can we explore to also stay somewhere rent free ?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564671#Comment_118564671

I'm guessing a spot of Tongue in Cheek in your response.

But to respond briefly, the crux of the problem is, the then Government made a commitment with, I presume an understanding such recognition doesn't mean there's going to be one law for ethnic groups and and another for the rest of the population . It's absolutely appropriate to recognise ethnic minorities, its equally appropriate for said ethnic minorities to observe laws that govern an entire population and not assume that ethnic recognition somehow means they can do as they please .

Wether you agree or not, what has happened is a convenient interpretation of what ethnic recognition means by a small cohort . Are you suggesting that has part of the recognition an entirely new and separate statute Book of Laws for the courts to work from should also have been drawn up🙄

At a basic level, if I decide, I like the look of my neighbours field, or a local authority land bank for example. Can I now just go off, buy a mobile home and set up camp on said lands unhindered 😳 seriously 🙄 how long do you think I'd get away with that I wonder . However what this judgement is essentially saying, if I'm a Traveller, off you go and do as you please and sure while your at, bring along a few pony's.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

Perhaps the traveller lifestyle is conducive to mental health issues?

Perhaps no regard for education leads to discrimination in terms of employment seeking?

Perhaps consider the above instead of virtue signalling?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564633#Comment_118564633

You do know that the folks who employ the term "toxic masculinity " exclude travellers due to their lack of " privilege "

Read you're WOKE Handbook

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564781#Comment_118564781

How did you get all that from what I said?

I meant that the laws should be re-written so that their original intent was clarified such that a judge wouldn't have room to interpret them as allowing him to go on about minorities or disadvantage as being concepts that somehow justified going off script and coming up with the nonsense under discussion.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564896#Comment_118564896

Apologies, as I said I sensed a bit of Tongue in Cheek in your post, I misinterpreted, I apologise

cnocbui

No worries at all.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564078#Comment_118564078

What amazes me is that there are so many traveller threads on boards.ie

It seems to be a weekly thing now. It's just the same arguments again and again.......