Ireland's defensive frailty exposed by Russian exercise

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525431#Comment_118525431

It would be far cheaper to go on Ebay and invest in a few million white flags.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526087#Comment_118526087

I think you are overplaying the hand here, but couldn't the money be redirected to another organisation, say civil defence to do what the army do in Ireland?

What is the primary role of the Irish Defence Forces?

From their Website:

"To defend the State against armed aggression; this being a contingency, preparations for its implementation will depend on an ongoing Government assessment of the security and defence environment."

So if they cannot do that, and we are unwilling to fund them to do that, just scrap it and stop living a lie...

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526193#Comment_118526193

Your posts are totally insubstantial. Absolute rubbish about car insurance and long-winded pseudo-intellectual nonsense about peace since World War II being an aberration. Ireland didn’t even fight in World War II.

BluePlanet

The fact that NATO have their knickers in a twist right now over Ukraine is proof positive that the Russians are 100% correct, Nato already had planned on Ukraine joining that alliance. Exactly like they had with Georgia.

The only thing that is preventing further NATO encirclement is Russia's aggressive position and putting boots on the ground in both those countries.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526223#Comment_118526223

Do one slowpoke. No one is listening to your boring drivel, least of all me. Mate.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526234#Comment_118526234

Nonsense

cheezums

No amount of defence spending would have stopped Russia there unless you want Ireland to spend billions on pointless battleships that we dont need. Complete waste of money. We're a tiny completely irrelevant island in geopolitical terms, acting otherwise is just stupid.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526242#Comment_118526242

We have a defence force because that is what nation-states do, but we 'really' don't have a defence force because we are Ireland....

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526277#Comment_118526277

They aren't conducting exercises in our seas though.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526236#Comment_118526236

“Boring drivel” is what happens when you post substantial, informed posts based on historical events and current affairs. You should give that a go some time instead of crying about car insurance and getting pissy when someone tells you you’re wrong.

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526285#Comment_118526285

That's not splitting HAIRS.

That's you trying to extend our territorial boundaries massively.

cheezums

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526277#Comment_118526277

How much would it cost for a "think twice Russia" navy though, that might not even work? Literally billions. And in a country with a substandard health system and a literal housing crisis. It's a farcical waste of money.

brickster69

Denmark sending some F16's to the East.

https://www.komu.com/news/nationworld/nato-sends-ships-jets-east-as-ireland-rejects-russia-drills/article_a6d442c1-38dc-5b32-9236-d433910b3074.html?utm_source=SocialNewsDesk&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=SND_twitter

BluePlanet

Sounds like NATO intent to ratchet up tensions.

Agree with gist of the OP though I would frame it differently.

Non-aggression, anti-imperialism and a spirit of neutrality are all things that appeal to many Irish people, but these attitudes do not give government carte blanche to abdicate the primary furking reponsibility of providing peace and security to the Irish people. This means more investment in defense. Given our limited war machine manufacturing capabilities, it seems that we should focus on cyberdefense rather than on some impossible-to-win hardware competition with larger powers (i.e. most powers).

What about shelters in case of attack? What about guerilla and sabotage tactics in case of occupation? Current attitudes mean that we, and official ireland operating in our name, will go out with a whimper, offering close to zero resistance in the face of any military challenge. What tomfkkery is that in a world like this?

Plus, there is all the domestic work military can be used for.. helping in extreme weather, natural disasters, explosions, supporting Garda operations etc. etc. So, yes invest more in the military, not to swing our wee Irish willies around, but because we take ourselves and our spirit of neutrality seriously and think it is worth defending.

oceanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525235#Comment_118525235

we dont need to protect ourselves......from what??

Staleturnips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526340#Comment_118526340

So its NATO who will be conducting the Russian exercises of the coast?

OK........let me just pull up a chair. Pleases continue comrade

Hello 2D Person Below

Any invasion of Ireland is an invasion of Britain.

The RAF doesn't protect our airspace for the good of their health.

BrianD3

Going by some of the logic here, we should be making token efforts to address climate change because there are coal fired powerstations in China.

Let someone else do it properly and spend their money. Hahaha.

We probably would adopt this approach were it not for EU fines.

We are an outlier in terms of our defence forces, other small countries have far more capability, are they all eejits? So far, this approach has worked well for us from a financial point of view.

But why do we have defence forces at all? Either spend a lot more or consider abolishing them entirely. We won't do the latter because that would look bad.

The post above about the defence forces supporting civil powers and emergency services and preventing the vaccination programme from being a shambles is not a positive thing for the defence forces. It is a negative thing for our health service and the country as a whole.

I worked in the PS for many years and saw many cases of ineffective, underfunded, state agencies trying to stay relevant and coming out of the woodwork to try to prove their importance. During Covid, staff from agencies, that the average person doesn't know exists, were at great pains to promote themselves as essential workers. Add to that reliance on NGOs to provide public services.

E.g. accidents on land around the coastline where the fire service, ambulance service, RNLI and one or both of the Air Corps and Coastguard are all involved. People think this is great to see so many different agencies deployed. It is actually a bad thing.

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526360#Comment_118526360

Russia aren't conducting exercises off the coast of a NATO member state, so what's it got to do with them?

Scrambling military hardware to the area increases the chances of an accident or miscue. It's reckless and dangerous, and if Ireland hasn't asked anybody then they are doing this for their own reasons and not ours.

brickster69

Yes, Simon Coveney has told the Russians they are not welcome also.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60113233

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526302#Comment_118526302

A think twice navy might be something about 1/4 the size of the Royal Dutch Navy. Something the same size of the Royal Dutch Navy would be stop them dead in their tracks.

Their GDP is double ours and they spend about 1% GDP. That is probably your measure.

Larbre34

https://news.sky.com/story/ireland-fires-broadside-at-russia-over-naval-drills-plan-off-coast-but-lacks-military-muscle-to-do-much-else-12524294

Anyone who says they value the sovereignty of this Republic should be mortified by this.

Absolutely frozen stiff mortified.

The real winners here are the Chinese.

basill

The Swiss have fighter jets and national service. Not sure how they could be compared to Ireland.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526513#Comment_118526513

and nazi gold

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526435#Comment_118526435

Reports of the Irish air force being scrambled

CreadanLady

For all the fellas advocating armament and military spending, I would say it is unlikely that you have....

a child with special needs

an elderly relative on an A&E trolley for days on end because there is no beds

a relative awaiting a life saving transplant

a disability

a chronic serious illness

To all of you, when you are in one or more of the above categories come back on the thread and tell us how many billions we need to squander on fighter planes and anti ship cruise missiles which will never be used.

And knowing ireland, even if we did get planes, they probably couldn't be launched when needed because of any one example of the usual Irish bullshít reasons that we tend to trot out when we can't be bothered out holes doing something, such as

• the pilots only work 9-5 Mon-Fri,
• the pilots are on work-to-rule because pdforra are in a dispute because there's no disabled access toilets fitted to the cockpit of the fighter jets, and one of the pilots is a LGBTQ+ABCD1234 mixed-race immigrant with a disability.
• or because there is some union issue with the fellas who fill the plane with fuel becuse they are offended that the planes use co2 emitting fossil fuel,
• because the air corp bought planes for a few hundred gazillions but some air corp genius forgot say in the tender that the planes need wings and buying wings will cost another 20 squillion.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526596#Comment_118526596

The funny thing is the jokes on everyone else

I mean this is one place where we are are actually excelling and way ahead of the curve on here, not wasting billions on arms we are never going to use in the first place.

There is one thing the UK US FRANCE and Russia have in common, a vested interest in selling said useless tech onto to other countries

bob mcbob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525535#Comment_118525535

Yes why do terrorists blow up stuff - it is completely irrational.

Yet they still do it!