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Certified Angus beef

  • 07-01-2022 8:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭ stanflt


    Just see that they are offering 30c per kg bonus

    who are they and how does one join and what is the criteria


    ive 50 aax heifers that will be ready for slaughter during this period- I’m already Bord Bia certified what else would I need to do



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭ Tonynewholland


    I joined over 10 years ago now at the factory costs €150 if I remember right



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    OP you need to register with the scheme. For this bonus you have to pre book the cattle. It's not completely set in stone. You have to indicate a factory you intend to supply. You cannot really bargain on base price when supply date comes along. However it more or less a no brainer for you

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ trg


    On the Summer Grazing theme, possibly another thread, would Angus heifers bought in Feb/Mar & finishing off grass be an option? What age/LW would you want to be buying at?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Problem with AA cattle is an awful lot of them have a very poor growth rate. Because if this it can be hard to get them to a decent slaughter weight. I think that the AA and HE schemes have minimum slaughter weight for bonuses to apply. As well they will struggle to finish before late autumn.

    Two year old heifers could be a better option but they can be expensive to buy.

    Ideally if finishing cattle you need s mixed bunch where they will finish from July, with most gone by late September. From that on grass LA's limited power to finish cattle.

    You would need Angus or HE cattle to be 300kg+ in Feb/March to have a good chance to finishing at year end. Bullocks would be as good an option as heifers.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭ Bellview


    I think this is the group below. they have been in business for over 20 years. worth giving a call and see how you get on. I believe there are some others offering premium as well with some factories




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭ Bellview



    always los of debate around AA/HE v continentals ... but once a lad is making money that is all that matters. you will hear various bad and good news stories on AA especially on weights.. but given numbers of AA calves born each year there are a lot of 'small/poor bulls being used on 'poor' dairy cows so zero change of weight.. I know one dairy farmer who brings his angus heifers from calf (from good dairy cows) to slaughter. He would normally slaughter females averaging 20 months. he does a job lot for roughly 25 heifers so finishing off grass in autumn. He goes direct to one of factories but gets price to match bonus etc. this year. he hit an average of just over 1200 which he was happy with as low input



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    They must have averaged near 280 kgs DW. They were not your average run of the mill heifers. They would have been 540kgsLW. That is great weight for AA heifers. Teagasc green acte schemes are killing HE and AA heifers and they vary from 240-280 kgs. Trying to buy to finish is different to a farmer that is producing there own

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭ stanflt


    Mine are my own but in reality if they don’t hit 280-300 dw it’s pointless regardless of a higher price- 1300 for a heifer after deductions isn’t great considering you’ve kept them for 2 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Probably is not but beef is a low margin business. Assuming you slaughter at 20/21 months if they average 280 kgs you are looking at a daily LW gain of 800 grams/ day. This is above average for AA cattle. Allow for a winter period these cattle must hit over a kg/ day for a while. I find even when feeding ration AA seldom do any better than 600 grams/ day.

    If heifer's hit 1200 average or above constantly most lads would be happy with them. You could nearly stock at a unit( yearling and calf) for the year. Only real issue to overcome is stocking level in the autumn. At a guess you be making 400/ head profit assuming a calf price of 160-180/ head.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭ stanflt


    This is my last batch of beef cattle tbh - when you think I can get 2000 plus for a 2yo Holstein fresh calver heifer plus she will also produce a heifer calf(sexed semen) and will probably cost less to rear- when you think my cull cows kill out at 400kgs dw when they are no longer producing milk - I can’t see how anyone can make a living full time at beef without an off farm job or huge numbers



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    TBH I have been saying for ages that beef farming is a part time job. A we'll set up 100 acre+ drystock enterprise can be managed in 15-20 hours a week. As well if set up right you can go to France for two weeks during the summer and to Lanzrote for a week during the winter. There is no fortune to be made but if you can collect 20k off a 50 acre farm between profit and payments what is wrong with it if you have another 40 k from a job and your spouse is works ag as well

    It's much better than hanging around a mart 3-4 days a week trying to pick up a few cheap cattle to make your weeks pay

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭ Tonynewholland


    I used to do them but I wouldn't keep them 2 years. I'd finish them off grass in October.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭ Bellview



    they were nice heifers, in fairness his cows/heifers would not be extreme holstein - probably some % of british Fr in them. He would also buy better type angus bulls... ie no KYA's



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭ Bellview


    there are a few factors that don't help the angus from dairy... firstly the heifers being used & the bulls being used. There are too many KYA type bulls in AI and I even see a lot of Te Mania Berkley sons being used by AI companies, while these will calf easier they also won't thrive. What i noticed last year are some farmers no longer afraid to give a heifer a small hand (not rabbit type calves), which will mean better calves and they will get better paid for these calves selling on. when you see the better Angus bull calf making 350-400 last spring the lad buying needs these lads to thrive



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Nearly any Angus that you pay 400 euro for will not leave too much profit. An Angus has a virtual weight limit of 370 kgs. Assuming that they average 4.4/ kg Inc bonuses ( that about a base of 4.15/ kg you are looking at a gross price of 1600 euro.. if you slaughter over 50/ year you get another 10c/ kg or 35 euro.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    General operatives in construction are on 30-35K/year as a basic wage now locally here. I know in the above example i gave 40K but that is before tax after tax its 617/week. I would not consider that outlandish money to be earning. In reality you need a second income to survive. Add a spouse earning 31K and they only have 500/week into there hand. That is an income of 1100/week coming into a house. In Dublin at present if you are a single person on 35K/year you are entitled to a level of rent supplement, there is a lot of single young people working in Dublin do not realize that. I know i am from near Limerick and the general run of may be higher than in some area's that are well away from larger towns and cities. But living costs are higher nearer larger urban area's as well. You can also assume that your travel costs would be higher as you would be travelling 10+ miles to work and maybe 20-30 miles.

    I would not consider 40K to be an outlandish income to aim for. Most factories pay that now, you may have to work a bit of OT but not a whole lot. If you have any decent sort of qualification leaving college thestarting rate is 30+. None of mine started on any less than that, now my daughter was lucky as since starting teaching she had full hours/week.

    As well remember the minute you go over 40K half is going back to the government

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,182 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    Eldest lad is all into Angus cattle, pedigree ones. He has looked at alot of stock recently. There's alot of crappy stock out there. Export gets rid of alot of them. We have a kya cow and she'd be one of our better cows. Used him on fr stock and it's a disaster. Looking at a recent sale pedigree breeder taking 1800 for bulls with very few stars. How is he making any money when meal, labour for training, going to the sale etc and getting 1800 euro.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    I've had Aax heifers kill out at everything from 240 to 328 and others will have seen bigger variation.


    The 240 was one of the most profitable, strangely enough but that was last July, bought in December for 350.


    The variety in the breed is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭ White Clover


    Had an Angus heifer kill 337 yesterday and another one 303, Both O+, I was certain they'd grade R. They were out of 9 or 10000litre 100% Holstein cows.

    Unfortunately there are too many killing in the 240 to 260kg bracket.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭ Bellview


    i would do a bit with pedigree as well and agree, lads selling bulls at these prices can't be making a bob. While the export has helped move some of the poorer female stock, it has probably created 2 unintended problems... the lads buying them think there is a lot of crap here and it has actually kept some cows alive (instead of culling her) who are breeding crap coz a lad can sell the heifer for a decent price even though she is poor.

    personally my view is the beep scheme is actually a better one than genomic as the weighing can help identify cows who are not pitting weight on their calves



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭ Dunedin


    I’d agree with this. And to add a little bit.

    15/20 hours should be the tops for a 50 acre farm so it’s circa 0.4 of a full time job and if it gets you 20€k then it’s the equivalent of €50k in a full 40 hour job. I think people have unrealistic expectations of what a beef farm can make.

    added to possibly two other household incomes, it’s adds a bit of comfort to living.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    And as a some some trader if you are writing off 2/3's of a decent car, phone and mobile phone, electricity, pay wages to the children from 14 on etc you can shield a lot of the income.

    The 20k could be the equivalent of 30k+ in real income for a couple who both have jobs. 38k is the median.woeking income in Ireland, more or less on the cusp of the high tax rate. Running a drystock farm as a business as opposed to a lifestyle choice can really change a lifestyles

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭ C0N0R


    Out of curiosity can you share some details on how you would go about this? I have the land and capital to set up, just need to figure out the direction to go, looking for low labour system like you have alluded to



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭✭ Base price


    Personally I wouldn't bother with a sprayer as there are too many regulations to jump through nowdays with certification, testing etc. There is a local man (certified) who supplies a spraying service and he charges per tank load. He will also supply the spray if required but assigns it to your herd number iykwim.

    A couple of bits of equipment that we use here are a chain harrow and land leveler - both are ideal for rejuvenating poached ground and can be picked up second hand for small enough money. We have a slurry tanker that allows us to spread when/where we need although the splash plate regulations will kick in. Our contractor does the majority of spreading in Spring and Autumn with a umbilical pipe system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    Beef, for most is a part time payer but often full time work.


    As a part time job, it's near unbeatable, add in another part time job and you can do quite well.


    A relative of mine was a great handler, he isn't anymore, average at best, works in a school as a Sna, 30k for it, out the door at 3pm. Makes as much from the farm, maximize schemes, doesn't try to squeeze output per acre, a reasonable target and that's it.


    You get paid near enough the same on the land for 2 hours a day or 10 with beef.


    He looked at the land as a big advantage and big earner as a part-time job. Doing it "right" would have seen him hand to mouth and the place fantastic and beef per acre to kick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    A lot will depend on the area you are in. If you are in a tillage area it can be impossible to get lad to spray. With spraying you need a day with no wind. I got caught waiting for 7-19 days for a lad with a sprayer a good few times.

    If there is a lad locally that dose it and is dependable I let him do it. Sprayer course is not that hard to do. Keeping a small sprayer right is not that expensive either.

    I have a chain harrow and a land leveller. I have not used the LL in nearly ten years. The chain harrow I use every second year. Problem with a slurry tank is you may need to move up the size of tractor you need from 80-90hp( or lower) to 110-120 hp or above. It may mean moving from a 2wd to a 4 wd.

    That show how a farm can change a fairly average income and lifestyle into a very decent living without killing yourself.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,307 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks


    Sadly the stars are more important for those running the schemes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,214 ✭✭✭ tanko


    I see that ABP are going to give a 20c/kg sustainability/genetic merit bonus for killing animals with an average age of 24 months. The aul stars are going nowhere, they’re going to be linked to everything we do🤔🤔



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