Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Nissan Note e-power

  • 06-01-2022 12:14pm
    #1
    Posts: 179 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ System


    This discussion was created from comments split from: 2021 Irish EV sales.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    I hope Nissan brings the new Note e-power to Europe. Won Japanese car of the year. As much as I would want an Ariya, I only need the note aura e-power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    If you want an efficient petrol hybrid there's plenty of choice already. I doubt the note epower would do well against the well established "self charging" cars



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    The e-power gives you e pedal functionality which parallel hybrids can’t. They also have a 4wd version as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭ daheff


    Big draw for me is the Note is cavernous inside. It's like twice as big inside as it looks like outside.


    A full ev would be great.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Yeah it's just a fossil car with a complex drivetrain though. You can't plug it in, you can only refuel with petrol. Not interested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    That’s like saying a hammer is useless ‘caus it can’t tighten a screw. It’s about the right tool for the right job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    Poster didn't say it was useless though, just that they aren't interested.

    This is another type of hybrid power train so I'm sure there will be a market for it. I think a Qashqai version is planned too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ PaulRyan97


    Yes the Qashqai will be getting a beefier version of the same powertrain.

    Interesting stuff though, improvements to hybrid technology should 100% be invested in. There here to stay for the next few decades whether we like it or not.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Pretty much unsellable as a new vehicle in the EU by 2035, maybe earlier if the euro manufacturers transition to non combustion earlier. If I was a shareholder in an auto targeting the EU market I'd question any further investment in combustion based drivetrains.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Yes and there's no need to bring an antiquated powertrain to market now when the sale of it will be banned in 3 years to 6-8 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    I would forecast the demise of liquid cooled batteries ( solid state is where the weight and range gain is) before efficient parallel hybrids.

    Folks popping to the shops for milk in a 4000lb vehicle seems a step backwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,478 ✭✭✭ ba_barabus


    Sadly 60% of our electricity here is generated using fossil fuel so one way or the other.........


    It's a good alternative for those who need a car that can efficiently travel long distances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    The sale of petrol cars is being banned starting some places in just 3 years. Why would nissan bring this to the EU?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,478 ✭✭✭ ba_barabus


    Never commented on any of that but nice deflection.

    And isn't the proposal to ban the sale of fossil fuel only cars with hybrids being allowed to continue as they see the need for them for people who dn't have access to a network or who need to travel long distances quickly.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Viviana Quaint Self-esteem


    engine is the same block as they already manufacture. they aren't betting the house on this hybrid technology, just extending the lifecycle of a component they already produce while dippign their toes further in to the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ PaulRyan97


    Yes, no doubt it would be of limited use within the EU, but Europe is the world leader on EVs. Think about in poorer nations where a transition to EVs likely won't happen for decades, they'll be using internal combustion engines long after they're gone here. With most of the expected world population growth to be in these places this century the global internal combustion engine fleet could actually grow, not shrink. I'd rather they have efficient hybrids to at least limit that potential CO2 source.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    Agree. But folks here spending 50k for a plus 2 tonne vehicle to go to the shops is also not sustainable. It’s about the right tool for the right job and I wonder if here we are not repeating the whole move to diesels like we did in 08. The future is electric, but solid state battery electric so it’s important that folks don’t take one step forward and 2 steps back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭ Ce he sin


    There's nowhere in the EU banning the sale of hybrids (which this is) in the next three years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Norway is in 2025. The rest seem to be 2030 or 2035.

    And yes, I am aware of the EU vs EEA.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz


    Some amount rubbish being talked here

    Kerb weight of a Nissan Note - e-power :  1300 kg ( ~less than 100 MPG )

    Kerb weight of a Renault Zoe fully electric : 1,4681 kg ( 185.0 MPGe)

    Kerb weight of a Peugeot e-208 fully electric : 1,530 kg ( 171.2 MPGe )

    Perfect for going to the shops for some milk!

    Most astute EV owners charge at night when its cheaper and the mix of renewables in the grid is better than 50%

    This will only get better.

    The taxes on fossil fuel cars will increase exponentially over the next few years. Anyone buying a new one has more money than sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ YellowRattle


    Interesting listening to the engine kicking in charging the battery.


    Review




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,757 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    40% isn’t and that 60% isn’t pumping out fumes at street level and is a lot cleaner than out of a car exhaust.

    Post edited by ted1 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ AnF Chuckie egg


    Only problem is the cost of the Full electric cars plus the cost of electricity to charge same cars.

    The Nissan Note e will use 2.7L per 100klm at €1.85 per litre of fuel is costing €4.99

    Electric car, take the Peugeot-e has a 50Wh battery with a range of 275klm that works out at 18Wh to do 100klm

    To charge 18Wh currently costs you over €8.50 at an ESB charge point.

    Even with night saver electric it's still costing €4.50 but don't forget to add on the cost of a homecharger, the higher standing charge too.

    Tax on fossil fuel cars will not go higher in the next few years, as we have seen the government has reduced excise on fuel lately. If fuel returns to €1.20 -€1.50 /litre then the Note is costing as low as €3.25 per 100klm

    Also Factor in the huge depreciation the Full EV car suffers due to battery degradation, and possible power grid blackouts too over the winter and I can't see any value in the current EV's



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz


    Even with night saver electric it's still costing €4.50 but don't forget to add on the cost of a homecharger, the higher standing charge too.

    Since when did 18Kwh cost €4.5 on night rate ??

    The current energia EV plan ( link ) night rate costs less than 10c per Kwh so thats less than €1.80 or nearly 3 times cheaper

    cost of a homecharger,

    minuscule when taken over the lifetime of the EV or multiple EVs and there's a grant!

    Also Factor in the huge depreciation the Full EV car suffers due to battery degradation,

    The batteries don't degrade significantly ( when compared to the lifespan of an ICE engine ) this myth and many more have been put to bed years ago ..

    link thats why most manufacturers give 8 years warranty that they will still have 80% after ~8 years

    And finally most modern EVs appreciate ( or depreciate at a much lower rate than ICE cars) after they are bought due to the shortage.

    You probably hate the idea of solar on your roof also, nice to drive on sunshine every now and again, unless maybe you make fossil fuels in your back garden somehow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ AnF Chuckie egg


    Lets stick to the facts.

    • The energia plan you are on is out of date now, they like all the other suppliers are hiking rates in the next 4-8 weeks. You are on a variable rate so you are getting hiked.
    • The energia plan you are on has a "great headline rate" for night saver but is totally unsuitable for heavy use like EV charging since an average EV will need to be charged from 0 to full at least 3 times per week (truth be told it's probably every night) that's 156 charges per annum. After roughly 8 charges you have used up your 2000Wh annual limit on nightsaver electric so you then move to the higher rate which at the moment is 22 cent with energia and thats last years rate. On top of which since you are on nightsaver you pay far higher for the daily rate of electricity so in fairness you are being hit for roughly 25c/kwh => €4.50 for 100klm of charge. That's a fact read the terms of your contract. And that's without the price hikes in the next few weeks.
    • Cost of home-charger isn't nothing, the grant is gobbled up by price gauging. You can only get 1 grant for 1 vehicle and the homechargers do fail, and develop faults
    • The EV batteries, just like your mobile phone battery degrade significantly in terms of use. So while a phone or laptop is still usable with a battery with 60-70% of original capacity, an EV becomes a driving range nightmare. Tesla the leader in EV battery tech offer a replacement if the batteries fail or go below 70% capacity by 100k kilometers. Not much of a guarantee if you ask me.
    • Don't see too many wanting to buy a five year old EV with 100k on it, it's new or nothing as nobody wants an EV that the battery could fail or go faulty and your local Mechanic can do nothing for you. Who the hell wants a second hand EV and be driving around like a nervous wreck wondering has it enough charge to get back.
    • The reality of EVs in Ireland is you pay through the hole for a big heavy battery car that costs as much as a conventional ICE car to run, and significantly more than a hybrid vehicle. Add on those big heavy cars are chewing through tires at twice the rate of a normal car along with the car depreciating twice as fast as other cars
    Post edited by AnF Chuckie egg on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭ ...Ghost...


    • The Nissan Note uses ~5L per 100km, so that's €9.25 for 100km of range. The worst night time tariff is around €0.15c per kWh, but even if we took your inflated figure, it's less than half the price of the petrol and for a far more comfortable drive. Only small battery EVs will be charged from low to full a few times a week. Most modern EVs only need charging once a week, or a few top-ups per week to keep her brimming. Night rate is not just for EVs, it makes a lot of sense when running equipment while you sleep. Pre-EV, my spend would have been break-even on night rate, as we tended to run washing machine, dishwasher, shower etc on offpeak hours as a matter of course.
    • I agree the grant is absolutely gobbled up by price gouging and have said so in other threads. However, a basic home charger can be got and installed using the grant and the homeowner can get this done for little or no money if they shop around. Alternatively, they can just charge up with the granny charger which would give enough overnight charge for a 100km round commute.
    • For old batteries, you might be correct, but not for modern ones. I just sold a 2012 Nissan Leaf with 110k klms on the clock and it still had close to 80% battery remaining....and this is with old Leaf chemistry which is prone to degradation. I will concede that plenty of these cars (2011-2013) have seen higher degradation, but mainly due to the owners rapid charging them frequently. I also have a 2014 Leaf with 105k klms and greater than 80% battery. The battery degradation argument is a non issue these days. ICE vehicles also lose efficiency and range per fill. They're not exactly efficient to begin with.
    • You can't be looking very hard on the EV sales side, because cars older than 10 years, let alone 5 years are being snapped up almost as soon as they are advertised. Even the short range ones are being sought after to be used as run arounds....perfect for the shop or the school runs. The chances of them developing a big fault is waaay lower than the equivalent ICE. Every other day at my office I hear about people being hit with expensive repair and maintenance bills on their ICE cars, but that's anectdotal, so I will leave that there. Owners of short range EVs <100km tend to stick to the limits of their car and don't plan cross country commutes too often, so the nervous wrecks are few and far between.
    • The reality is that the arguments you have put forward have been debunked years ago and just show that people need to be a little educated on the subject before putting forward the same old snippets we are bored of. Batteries, range, cost of running etc etc etc we have heard it all. When people start talking about tyre wear, I start to fall asleep. EVs are becoming more popular. They are an easy purchase....but you just have to wait a while because demand is a lot higher than expected. I can drive from one side of the country to the other and back without a charge and at a fraction of the cost of petrol/diesel. That's a modern EV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,909 ✭✭✭✭ TitianGerm


    Wrong wrong wrong.

    1. The Energia EV rate is a 12 month FIXED RATE tariff. Everyone who signs up to this tariff gets a letter to confirm the rate is fixed.

    2A. No EV user chargers their car from 0% to 100% three times a week. Most drivers will charge between 20% to 80% for most occasions. Most EVs now will do 300km per charge so by you suggesting that they need to charge every night that would equate to 2,100 km per week. I'd say there's a miniscule amount of people in Ireland putting up that milage every week.

    2B. The night time allowance of 2,000 is per two month period not per annum.

    2C. 2,000 units divided by 8 charges is 250kWh per charge. Is there even an EV with that size battery?

    2D. You're miles off on the rates and your "facts" are just wrong. By all means you can show us these T&C to show you are correct.

    3. My home charger install was €700 after grant. Even allowing for a 50% increase in price that's around €1K now. That €1,000 would be eaten up by fuel cost savings very very quickly. Of all the EV drivers on Boards and the Irish EV Facebook there's not been many reports of failures of chargers. But I am sure there are a number.

    4A. Only the very first Leaf are showing massive battery degredation. Plenty of other older EVs on the road showing very little. And assume you are correct that an EV becomes a driving nightmare at 70% capacity, why is it that? Surely that car at 70% doing 150-200km would be a perfect second family car or town run around for someone?

    4B. I don't know anything about Tesla warranties so can't comment here but Hyundai have an 8 year 180,000km warranty on their battery. Sounds like they're pretty confident in their technology.

    5. Older EVs are being snapped up and selling for more now than two years ago on DD. I actually bought a 28KW Ioniq last month with 135K KM on the clock. It's still showing 100% battery and is perfect for my use case which is approximately 150km per week. I also sold my two year old ID3 for a few thousand more than I bought it new. I placed the add on DD and it was gone two hours later. I had four PMs on here enquiring about it and another five people on DD.

    6A. An EV cost about 25% of the cost of an ICE to run. No way in hell is a Hybrid cheaper to run over a similar journey.

    6B. Good tyres will last you. A person's driving style can also affect wear. There's plenty of reports of people getting similar mileage from the same tyres between an ICE and an EV.

    6C. EVs are depreciating at a far lower rate than ICE vehicles. In many cases they are actually appreciating in value.


    From reading your posts I get the impression that a lot of your knowledge of EVs is gathered from the boys at the bar counter on a Friday evening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭ ...Ghost...


    I missed the Tesla warranty comment. Just to chime in….




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ AnF Chuckie egg


    Again lets stick to facts

    Nissan note power-e uses 2.7L/100 klm not the 5L you quote. So at costs at current petrol prices €4.96

    EV on the best day will use about 20KwH/100klm = €3 on the headline night rate which is not a true indication of cost, the real cost is at least 25c/kwH which equates to €4.80/100Klm (out of interest it's €9.60 now if you use an ESB charger)

    As for tires, it may sound like a silly argument and you can make little of it but it's fairly significant when Cars are doing only 7-10k on a new set.

    Now I'm all for full EVs but not with Irish Electricity prices and Irish Car prices plus when you honestly add up al the costs of owning an EV it's just a stupid fad

    For pure Value for money, and best economy it is the Note power-e which has been the most popular car in Japan over the last 5 years,



Advertisement