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Fire in Molesworth Street

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ MarkEadie


    Not sure why people on the left would celebrate it. What motive would they have to celebrate it? The right wing weirdos have umpteen conspiracy theories about it so that's why they are celebrating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭ Billy Mays


    Read elsewhere yer man set himself on fire when he threw petrol on the burning tree, jumped out the window and landed in the basement stairwell. Most likely paralysed.

    All because he did his own research presumably



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,153 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    Long history of hostility from the left towards Freemasonry, they saw it as quasi religious, quasi Jewish, class ridden, a secret opposition force against them. Obsessed with traditional values, even if they were enlightenment led ones at times.

    This hate is older from far left or far right than a few knobs on twitter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,153 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    One of ye. Two of ye.


    What a few of your dopplegangers on twitter say about it have no more relevance or expression of wider views than your political side of that family feud.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,423 ✭✭✭✭ Annasopra


    Who on the left is celebrating that fire then?

    Apparently a "normal" woman is a busty blonde sexy page 3 model who wears make-up, short skirts and red lipsticks and has pouty lips.  Who knew. 👀😏

    ******



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    LOL

    Opus Dei and Knights of Columbanus say hello. I'd agree on the 'nothing good' bit though.

    The likes of Alcohol Action Ireland won't be happy until we all have ration cards. Maybe not even then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭ ozmo


    Any updates on the building- was it badly damaged or much lost?

    Visited it once during an open house or heritage night- very impressive inside.

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    Is this bluster designed to distract from the key question that you keep avoiding. Who on the far left has been celebrating this attack please?


    So you're saying that capitalists are fundamentally violent people, and somehow that's the fault of far-left people working through democratic processes? You seem to have lost sight of things somehow.

    This particular attack is considered to be from the far right because it is from the far right. Look at the anti-vax slogans sprayed outside. Look at the celebration of the attack in far right circles. Look at the gross stupidity of the attacker jumping out the window and falling to the basement- all the hallmarks of far right.

    He came up with a load of bluster when I asked that question. Maybe you'll have better luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    There's a difference between hostility towards the political and social aims of Freemasonry, and making a violent attack on the building. The far left didn't carry out an attack on the building, regardless of their political hostility.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i am definitely not saying what you are saying I’m saying. What I am saying is that the far left is often violent.

    Also I don’t buy that the anti-vax movement is “far right” although it may be stupid. The fear of the non existent far right is a hysterical bourgeois moral panic, of the type that the bourgeois class - ie your class - engages in every so often.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    You're the one who said that business owners will be having a 'fight' of some kind. You haven't given a single example of how or when far-left in Ireland has been violent in any way.

    If you haven't seen the very strong links between anti-vax and far right, you've been walking around with blinkers for two years. Check out the supportive comments on this specific attack from far-right circles posted above.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m saying that people are obviously going to protect their ownership of property and resist expropriation. Any far left controlled State will have to employ violence, as the Soviet Union did when it liquified the Kulaks, because people will refuse to surrender their farms, businesses and property. But this is off topic

    ive seen a lot of bourgeois journalists calling the anti-vaxxers far right, but that’s just a moral panic. The support for the far right in Ireland is either 0.2% or 0.7% depending on whether the NP is running in a general or by election

    then there’s these guys.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-wallace-and-daly-are-a-national-embarrassment-1.4749298



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    There are priests and bishops who are Freemasons. Nonetheless that is the official position of the RCC. Its the main reason they excommunicated members of the old IRA, for taking secret oaths.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭ generic_throwaway


    Can you please quote where I claimed that this was a "group-organised attack with 'ringleaders'"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical scenario, that we've probably wasted more than enough time on, but you're still putting the violent tag on the capitalists, it seems.

    It's nothing to do with 'bourgeois journalists' whatever they might be. Anyone who's kept the slightest passing glance of interest on these matters has seen the far right movement jumping onto the anti-vax, anti-mask anti-everything bandwagon. This is what the far right in Ireland have been doing for two years now. Have you been paying attention?



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ MarkEadie


    Good post. What is the point of saying that the left were celebrating it when there was no proof whatsoever provided?





  • Anecdotal evidence I'm sure wouldn't placate you. I know plenty who would be of quite far left politically who have been vocal that the freemasons "get what they deserve" for their elitist, misogynistic club.

    I don't follow any far left people on twitter (why would I?), but I do know plenty of freemasons who would agree with me.

    It would be absolutely ludicrous to suggest that extremists on either side of the aisle wouldn't have taken pleasure with the arson attack.

    Those anti vax idiots are of course more vocal in their delight as it was one of theirs who did it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,423 ✭✭✭✭ Annasopra


    All bluster and hot air 😅. Basically you have no argument.

    Apparently a "normal" woman is a busty blonde sexy page 3 model who wears make-up, short skirts and red lipsticks and has pouty lips.  Who knew. 👀😏

    ******





  • Cool, so no proof and comments that you may have just invented. I'm on the left(not far left but I'm sure you probably think I am, I've done the tour of the hall on a previous culture night. I have no particularly strong feelings about the Freemasons so definitely wouldn't wish it on them and view it as pretty horrible since both the building and contents are of historical significance.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    I think I stopped believing you somewhere around 'I know plenty who would of quite far left'. But regardless of my personal view, can you just confirm did you have these conversations with all your far left friends about what the Freemasons deserve before or after the recent attack?





  • I never said I had far left friends Andrew. I said I knew people who would be considered quite far left, through extended family, work colleagues and certain social circles etc. I wouldn't consider many (if any) to be friends.

    And the feelings of people who gave their opinion about it were made clear to me after the arson attack.


    That's fair enough. To be honest Anna and Mike, if the situations were reversed, I would probably be saying the same to you guys.

    I stand by my assertion that it would be absolutely foolish to believe that there are none on the extreme left that weren't more than happy that the Freemasons Lodge was attacked, but would be loathe to shout it out for fear of looking like they agree with the ridiculous Anti Vax idiots.

    I do agree that anyone celebrating this attack is an absolute tit and should be called out as such, and in the face of purely anecdotal evidence, I understand your hesitance (or even dismissal) of what I am saying as I can't imagine I wouldn't be calling you out if the shoe was on the other foot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    So over the past week, you've had contacts with "extended family, work colleagues and certain social circles" who are far-left people who have expressed their views on the attack on the Freemasons building?

    Honestly, it doesn't sound very credible at all. No-one in my circles has mentioned the Freemason attack, one way or other - no-one in family, no-one in work, no-one in social circles. It just sounds a bit convenient that you've had such contacts over the past week.

    It's really strange to see the consistent effort to tar far-left and far-right with the same brush, despite the complete absence of evidence of any far-left view on the particular issue.





  • Yes Andrew. I have been in contact with workmates this week, and over the Xmas/new year did see extended family and people within social circles I mix in.

    We do talk about current affairs too and an arson attack in the one of the most historic buildings in the city centre did come up on more than one occasion. Granted, it wasn't the focal point of most of the evening's conversations but as I said, it did get mentioned on more than one occasion.

    I'm sure you and your merry band of friends had conversations that wouldn't have arisen within the group of people I know, but that's far from unusual. I doubt you would talk on a casual basis about anything I would. Thankfully.

    I'm sure you find it strange Andrew but frankly, I couldn't care less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    The fire happened on New Years Eve. So if anyone was talking to you about a fire at the Freemasons over Christmas, prior to New Year's Eve, you should really be letting the Gardai know, because they were probably involved in planning the attack.

    Today is 6th of Jan, and it is 3-4 days since you started claiming that you knew of far-left people who were celebrating the attack. So your credibility depends on the likelihood of you have discussions with work colleagues (while most workplaces were closed for public holidays), extended family, social circles in the 2-3 days after the attack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,169 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    That's a whole lot of mixing and discussing of niche issues with people who are not your friends in the three or four days after the new year.





  • Lol.

    You really are clutching. Do you not speak to extended family members or different friends (and by extension, friends of friends) on New Years Eve/New Years Day?

    I'm in touch with my work colleagues through WhatsApp and we worked remotely over the holidays and are in touch on a daily basis through the group chat. It was in the news so it's hardly unusual to speak about.

    You find it hard to believe that I would have conversations with family, social circles and some people from work in the space of a few days over the holidays and that a current news story would be mentioned?

    Are you envisioning that you can only have speak about current affairs and garner peoples opinions through long-form, roundtable debates? Because in my experience, it's usually a "Did you see "x" in the news today?" and people give their thoughts about it, before the next topic arises organically through conversation.





  • No its not.

    Its mentioning a current event with people in my family, friends of friends, and work colleagues in the space of a couple of days and hearing their thoughts on it.

    And people do tend to mix with extended family members and friends of friends over new years and the bank holidays immediately after it. That tends to happen when you visit friends and family. They usually have some other people there too.

    I'm not surprised you'd find it strange



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,162 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    But it's more than that. It's not just 'family/work/social'. It is 'family/work/social that includes far-left people'. And it's not just discussion of news events. It is (apparently) people actively celebrating a violent criminal attack on work or family messaging groups.

    It's all just a bit silly now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,169 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Well I kept my mixing of households and contacts to a minimum over the Christmas and new year period in line with the public health guidelines.

    Good to see you were out mixing with people who are not your friends but you can place on a left right political spectrum and with whom you managed to shoehorn in a discussion on their ideological opposition to freemasonry. 🤣


    You are not surprised that I don't what?



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