Your F1 rules/regulations ideas

Lot of giving out about rules and rulings, plenty of it justified.

So yeah, any ideas for new rules or improvements? I have one that I think would improve things.

My ideas:

Safety Car or VSC: Limiter fitted to all cars, track goes yellow and car can't go above let's say 120kph. Simple to implement so just bloody do it. Be honest going forward and say that you will do what you can to finish a race under green, so red flag in the last 4/5 laps instead of a safety car can be almost expected.

Communication: This partly is related to "The Show" but really it's about some kind of projection of competence. As much as I love Toto's grovelling today about not calling a safety car, we shouldn't be hearing that. And for the matter, neither should the FIA. Speak when spoken to for the teams. Massive fines for breaches.

The system where the Stewards and FIA work both in parallel but the Stewards triage but the FIA as ultimate power and sometimes when it deign to intervene they're referring something to the Stewards which they've already decided doesn't require action. It has gaps in it and the FIA really haven't covered those gaps well. The "Give the position back if that's ok" nonsense was an example where the decision was pretty much made, and correctly, yet by releasing that bit of audio they've made themselves look like idiots. Today there should have been nothing at all about releasing lapped cars. I don't recall it happening before, the communication comes once the decision hasn't just been made but as they start doing the overtaking.

3 issues need addressing as I see it:

Communication, explained above.

Team power. Way too high. Bernie knew how to keep them under control but now they're running the show too much.

Clear rules: We've seen this season that off-tracks are a complete and utter crapshoot. However if they won't put in gravel traps then relying on the teams to police themselves (team power again) then you need some clearer rules and penalties. In the finale for example I thought Hamilton did gain an advantage but at the same time giving the place back would have been a major punishment since he was forced off track. The "He's given back all the advantage" is another good example of something the audience really didn't need to hear, completely undermines the FIA.

So, any ideas? :D

flazio

If a car is worked on during a red flag, (including tyre changing) they should be made to do a pitlane drive through in green flag conditions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310805#Comment_118310805

Back of the queue would be my instinct. Trouble is what if the red flag comes out late so some people pitted then others need to change under red flag? But the pitting under red flags is getting silly, particularly as we see more non-race-ending red flags

DrZeuss

Remove long run offs and replace them with gravel/grass or something that would properly punish a driver for going off track and negate the need to delete lap times. Anything that helps the race director and team from having to make decisions is welcomed I think.

kksaints

I'd like to see the VSC regulations changed somewhat, Saudi Arabia had too many incidents where cars would either pull further ahead or close up considerably under the VSC. The gap should remain the same, this driving to a Delta system they have at the moment is too open to abuse. I'd also like to see pitting banned under VSC conditions.

ForestFire

I think with all the modern tech, they could implements not just a limiter, but a real time system to keep the cars at the same distance at the point of the SC. Once the Gap is set correct release them all from the limiter at the same time?

Also as for the pits during SC, maybe give everyone a free pit and back to their positions, that way , cars that where juts coming in or cars that juts missed the pit entrance should benefit.

Therefore any SC should be 3 Laps minimum?

Also if SC in the last 4/5/6 laps then restart under safety car and extend the laps if required?? (Team need to keep a SC fuel reserve for this event just in case, or let them gamble???

I would like to see something to keep the VSC a bit fairer but it's really not all that simple.

As soon as the VSC comes out if everyone did suddenly get down to (say) 100kph then those on the straight lose out big time. Usually evens out but not always. As a thought exercise imagine a simple oval track. They going 300kph, evenly spaced, everyone goes to 100kph and every time gap triples instantly. Now add a couple of corners in, if you're unlucky the VSC comes out when you're at the start of a straight and ends when you're 300m from the end of another one you've lost out twice.

A 100kph (or whatever) limiter would get rid of 90+% of swings due to VSC.

quokula

Teams shouldn't be allowed to speak to race directors and the negotiations to get what they want need to stop.

Going further, to enhance racing, teams shouldn't be allowed talk to drivers either. Drivers should make the call on how hard to push the tyres and when to stop. Allow direct driver to driver comms between teammates to coordinate strategy between themselves.

There is enough data between telemetry and GPS traces to have perfect computer generated reproductions of incidents. These sometimes pop up on youtube after the fact. The FIA should invest in a system that creates reproductions with generic white cars, and stewards should automatically receive all incidents of contact and cars going off track to review, without knowing who the actual drivers are, to finally put to bed the way rules are applied differently to different teams.

In technical rather than sporting regulations, I'd bring back full manual gear boxes. I'd also move back towards much smaller and lighter V10 cars and drop the complex heavy hybrid systems that make the current cars a bit more like boats than racing cars at times.

Replace the sprint race format with something closer to the F2 reverse grid system, and keep it limited to a few races.

Drop the rule about starting on the Q2 tyre, there's just no reason for it, all it does is penalise midfield teams for getting into Q3 and remove strategy variation.

Personally I'd go back to the single lap format we had in the early 2000s for qualifying as it really put the pressure on drivers and there were no second chances for mistakes, though people seem to prefer the current format as there's more consistent action.

Instead of letting lapped cars unlap themselves, they should drop to the back of the safety car queue, this would be much quicker and simpler. Same goes for after a red flag, cars shouldn't be sent out to unlap themselves but should just stay at the back.

The VSC should last an exact number of full laps so it always ends with cars at pretty much the exact same location on track as where they started (if drivers are doing a prescribed laptime this should be achievable) to avoid situations where advantages are gained and lost because there was a VSC through the part of the lap that suited one car then not through the part of the lap that suited another.

Increase the penalty significantly for "tactical" engine changes, this is something that should only be a last resort in the case of reliability problems rather than something to be abused for a pace advantage. Something like a 10 place penalty for first extra engine, 20 place penalty for second engine etc with carry over from race to race if the penalty would put you lower than 20th. Reset the penalty if you suffer an actual in-race engine failure. In addition to a penalty, the new engine should be limited to the same power output as the one it replaced if it's technically possible to monitor that, similar to the rules around changing damaged parts or tyres in parc ferme.

Get rid of DRS. If next year's cars can follow in dirty air then it's not needed, and even if they struggle DRS overtakes do not constitute real racing and never have.

Sack Michael Masi and never let him near a decision making role again.

Burkie1203

Eliminate time penalties. Stop/go or drive through/grid penalty only

Get rid of VSC

Put someone out which causes red flag and automatically start in pit lane

artanevilla

Whatever about teams talking to race control about potential violations etc, having them make demands regarding a safety issue such as Mercedes asking for no safety car today is absolutely disgraceful.

blackbox

If they are to continue to make drivers give up places unfairly gained, they need to have a rule about where this must be done. It was ridiculous last week where Hamilton didn't want to take the place as he would be disadvantaged by DRS and ended up running into the back of Verstappen.

Itssoeasy

I think that teams should have the ability to talk to the race director but by no means should it be team principals. It should be a nominated person from the team. Toto today was a disgrace trying to tell him to not send out a safety Car. That’s not a team principals place to dictate that.

Michael massi needs to stop trying to be fair to all the teams, he’s the race director he’s not their friend.

as others have said there needs to be a way to track whether a car adheres to the limits, and it shouldn’t be debatable. It’s 2021 so the tech is there.

drivers should be penalised for things they do and teams should be penalised for stuff they do. This punishing the driver for something outside his control that’s the teams fault is pointless.

PopePalpatine

Just ditch the $200 million entrance fee for teams. That's all I ask. As long as you're not some sort of war criminal, dictator's failson or the Second Coming of Andrea Sassetti, if you can afford to run a team for at least a year, have at it.

ednwireland

written communication only to the race director.

no pitting under safety car.

I'd love to see drs binned, just get rid of multi layer wings so cars can follow without losing as much down force. but appreciate it wont happen.

namloc1980

Make the white lines the track limits at every circuit. It's ridiculous that one week you have white lines are track limits at every turn, but then at the next circuit turn X track limits are the white lines but turn Y it's the red and white kerbs.

flazio

To avoid the confusion seen last time out. "10 Laps Remaining" Safety Car retired and the track run like a practice, qualifying session. Minor incident VSC until it sorts itself out, anything more significant Red Flag with one lap count back for restart grid and lapped cars proceed on parade laps, return to pitlane wait 10 seconds and go around again behind the rest so they don't have an unfair warm up advantage. Once the red flag is called marshals have up to 15 minutes to get the track ready for green light. If they can't then the race is deemed over.

mickdw

Safety car and the opportunities it brings are one of the best things about the sport from entertainment view point. I think it would be madness to use tech or new rules to keep everything exactly timed as before incident.

Seeing as overtaking is no longer allowed unless it's a Drs overtake on a straight, if we kill the excitement around safety cars, there will be nothing left to watch.

I suggested in other thread that they could use the 2nd safety car to tail the field, stop short of scene of accident. Immediately then allow lapped cars to overtake once past accident. 2nd safety car waits and protects scene of accident as lapped cars race around to catch snake.

Cookie_Monster

Enforce the white line at the edge of the track please. doesnt matter who, doesnt matter where or when. You cross it in quali lap deleted. Do it more than 3 times in the race get a warning, do it more than 5 times black flag.

doesnt matter if its considered an advantage or not.

ForestFire

Why do they even need to allow lapped cars to unlap.

Just leave them fall to the back of the pack, under SC, once they pass the incident.

Use the flag system to indicate where this can be done.

Blue/yellow - move back

Yellow only - hold position

2011

How about just applying the rules they already have in a consistent and transperent manner?

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318069#Comment_118318069

I understand the sentiment here but sometimes these tracks aren’t purpose built for F1, and possibly for safety some corners it can be allowed.

But it should remain consistent, certainly post practice when they have more data. Once something is allowed it should be allowed for Quali and the GP, and it should be clearly communicated.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318391#Comment_118318391

The biggest issue for me is time penalties. They are largely irrelevant and can be overcome far too easily.

Any incident in last 10-15 laps should be investigated after the race and carry a grid penalty at next race

Any incident prior to that should involve either a drive through or a 5/10 seconds stop/go

artanevilla

An easy way to sort the safety car and restart problems is to ban the cars from crashing.

recyclebin

Ban the phrase 'let them race'. Horner used this phrase over and over anytime rules were broken or ignored.

the_pen_turner

The un lapping issue could easily be sorted by getting them to go into the pits. That would keep them in order and put them at the back with no disruption or danger out on track

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318715#Comment_118318715

Agree 100%

recyclebin

Open up the fastest lap point to everyone or get rid of it altogether. It has been just another play thing for Mercedes and Red Bull to use the last year as they were so far ahead of everyone else.

the_pen_turner

Pole sitter should get to decide if pole is left or right. Far to many times the other side us the better position on track and has a better run to the first corner

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320466#Comment_118320466

Problem with that is support races that take place minutes after qualifying. When exactly are they going to get the time to paint a new grid?

BillyHasMates

Repeating some points already made but they definitely need to take a look at communication between team principals and the race director while the race is ongoing. There should be communication from race director to teams only with regard to decisions made by stewards or in-race penalties. Let the teams receive explanations after the race. Masi is under extreme pressure as it is without having babies like Horner and Wolff in his ear constantly.

I also think DRS should be binned. I don't think it makes racing exciting at all.

Also agree about runoffs. It is an easy out for drivers who can't make a turn or corner. It is an added problem when it happens because two cars are fighting for position leading in to the corner and stewards seem to have an issue with consistency in the application of rules and penalties as a result. The sport is over regulated with penalties as it is.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320841#Comment_118320841

no need to repaint anything. just use 2nd position as pole and 3rd as 2nd etc. surely it cant be that difeicult

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321673#Comment_118321673

But then the pole sitter is essentially choosing for everyone else behind him as well what side of the track they will start on. That's not right.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318084#Comment_118318084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319616#Comment_118319616

Letting them go backwards doesn't treat all driver equally. Driver on the same lap get brought right back into the race. Lapped drivers by unlapping themselves get right back into the race also so safety car has same benefit for all.

Pushing them backwards means they staying lapped and not treated same as others.

Running the lapped cars into pits wouldn't work. This would be similar to pushing them backwards. They need to gain a lap to unlap themselves.

flazio

Also gives them extra fuel to push.

ctrl-alt-delete

I'd like to see qualifying changed.

Q1 - all cars as normal - timed session of 30 mins to set any amount of lap times, Q1 decides the bottom 10 places on the grid.

Q2 - One shot qualifying. The 10 remaining cars have one lap each to set their top 10 time. This is done in order from Q1 with the fastest from that session going last.'

At the same time I would get rid of the fastest lap point from the race to stop the abuse that happens with that and give that to the driver who qualifies pole.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321718#Comment_118321718

what harm is that. the pole sitter gets the advantage as they should

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321802#Comment_118321802

when it happens mid race yes it matters and i agree with you . but with a few laps left it wouldnt matter much

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322255#Comment_118322255

they are all saving fuel under the saftey car anyway so probably woulnt make much diference

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322345#Comment_118322345

I like that format idea. I also like removing the fastest lap point. Not sure about giving a point for pole, that’s already reward in itself. I would worry about the anticlimax of a championship being decided on a Saturday.

ELM327

Keep the rules as they are and enforce them. "Lucky" safety cars, red flags etc have always been a part of F1 and should not be changed. The only change I would make is no safety car in the last 5-7 laps of the race. Red flag to replace it. Also Replace all tarmac runoffs with gravel

-White lines define the track, and track limits are enforced everywhere.

-If you leave the track, and the other driver doesnt, then you are at fault

-Consistent decisions

NoBread

If there's an accident, just cut all car's engines completely. Let them coast to a halt on the track where ever they are. Then when the issue is cleared, the light goes green and they all just nail it again from wherever they stopped!

That way there's no advantage gained or laps run out!

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325154#Comment_118325154

Gravel too likely to force a car out of the race. They have the tech to force a reduction in power of the car is in the run off, so do something with that - so if a car goes off it is automatically going slower - but doesn't run the risk of being beached and out of the race. Remember, there will be occassions where a driver has to use the run off for safety.

Look at Turn 4 in Brazil. Hamilton had to go off track cause Max had completely outbraked himself and it was either crash into hamilton or hamilton went off the track along with Max. Hamilton shouldn't have to run the risk of being out of the race because Max tried and utterly failed a dangerous overtake.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325887#Comment_118325887

having images of them rolling backwards down the incline a Monaco.....

flazio

Apparently it's motorbikes, not cars, that the tarmac run offs are for. I remember a few years ago when the drivers meetings were filmed and put out on YouTube one of the drivers put it to Charlie to look into reintroducing gravel and the response from Charlie was that he was told by moto GP that motorbike falls were safer on tarmac then gravel.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326007#Comment_118326007

The risk profile changes with gravel - the two drivers wouldn't have both outbraked themselves in Brazil if there wasn't a ton of tarmac they could drive into. When there is gravel the driver on the outside will back off when they've lost the corner rather than drive off the road to maintain momentum. We see this at tracks like Austria where it works.

Gravel would stop situations like the first lap at Abu Dhabi when the lead was stolen by a driver making up his own track layout, and would stop situations like track limits being routinely ignored in Bahrain to make up a gap after a pitstop.

afatbollix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322345#Comment_118322345

Your qualifying format has been tried.

They would all go out at the beginning, do a lap and then sit in the pits for 25 minutes and then do a last-minute lap. They don't want to waste tires or put wear on the engines/suspension/brakes. They all hated when they got back fuel for each lap they did years ago, when a set of tyres had to last a race. It was also pretty rubbish, Qualifying should be the fastest lap of the weekend, Low fuel weight, engines maxed and drivers pushing for a whole lap.

One lap qualifying is sooooo boring, WTCC did it and it was rubbish, A car finishes its lap slows down and then the next car is only half way around warming up its tyres and then we wait and wait and wait for the lap to start and they run well wide on turn 1 and scrap the lap. Then we wait 5 minutes for the next car to start. It's rubbish and they stopped after the year they brought it in. It took about 30 mins to do 5 cars just to describe how slow it takes.

At the moment cars go out for a lap then pit for new tyres and then do a last-minute lap and we get loads of cars on track. Don't change it! It is the best qualifying after all the changes they did to try make it exciting.

Sometimes it was great to see if George would get into Q2 or would Alonso get into Q1 its not just about pole.

flazio

To be fair, they all get into Q1 as long as they didn't bin it in FP3. I think you meant "Alonso into Q3"

WTCC must've implemented it fairly poorly then. When F1 did one-shot qualifying (which I'm not particularly against) they'd follow the car for a corner once the time was set, maybe show a pitwall reaction then show the car about to start their lap with 2/3/4 corners left.

Then again back then they didn't do 3 minute out- and in- laps.

afatbollix

All you can say is leave the pits once the car goes over the start line, You can't say do a push lap to catch up to them. And they will do what the engineers say not the FIA so they go slow, Warm-up tires, Keep the car cool go slow and they don't care about TV just to what the engineer is saying to do.

In the real world it wouldn't work.

And yes I've got my Q1 to Q3 mixed up.....

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328799#Comment_118328799

They can quite easily have minimum and maximum laptimes that the cars have to run to to make it work, they already have all the timing equipment in place to do it as they use it for VSC and the like.

Say on a track with a 1:15 average racing lap time. You queue at the end of the pitlane and you have to get round and start your flying lap between 1:25 and 1:35 from the light going green or your lap doesn't count. You also need to reenter the pitlane within 1:40 of your lap finishing. Very easy to police and puts a stop to all the messing that currently happens during warm up laps.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327025#Comment_118327025

So you've an issue with Hamilton in the last race, but would be fine with max forcing a driver either into the gravel or to back out of a corner they had, because max outbraked himself and aimed his car at the side of Hamilton?

So either with Hamilton gets punished yeah, that seems like an utterly unbiased thought process.