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Car sabotaged due to disagreement over parking space

  • 11-12-2021 10:09am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 49


    My place of work where I'm newly employed is located behind another business and we have right of way through their property. There is a long driveway in front of their business which leads out to the public road. I usually park in the spaces at the side of this driveway as instructed by my boss (due to lack of space in our own place). There is ample parking there always and I was parked very far from either business thought about who's property it was.

    On Thursday of last week when I got out of my car, this fella from the other business, said "here bollocks, move your car". I decided to ignore him because of the way he addressed me. I was late so continued jogging off. He shouted that he was the owner. He followed me all the way down (150 yards) to where I work where he confronted and threatened me. I told him that the owner of my business said I could park there and that if he'd an issue then he could take it up with him. He then said "if you park there again I'll fcuking kill ya". Since then I began parking my car in the same spaces, but always as far away from their business as possible. There's always plenty of free spaces and people from the other businesses park there too.

    On Monday evening when coming home from work my engine began to over-heat. Luckily for me I was about 50 yards from home. I noticed the engine coolant tank was empty and thought it might have been a leak in the radiator hose. I brought it to my mechanic after it cooled down and began using a different car. On Thursday my mechanic rang me to tell me that someone had definitely drilled a hole through the grill, and straight through the radiator and air-con fan.

    I gave a statement to the guards Thursday night. How serious a crime would this be considered?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    It will be very hard to prove who did this. It would be criminal damage, I imagine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,478 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Any cameras on the parking space?



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 In Actuality


    Only the ones from his business. And I think they're too far away anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭65535


    Put a potato into his exhaust pipe



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,887 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Mother of God has the world gone mad. This is outrageous 😳

    Liveline dealing with road rage incidents all week and whilst not road rage as such, threatening to kill is an extremely serious matter. Re the damage, if proven, whilst not as serious as tampering with breaks etc, it's still a very serious matter , again if proven and deliberate criminal Damage at a minimum.

    You've certainly done the right thing reporting this , I presume your mechanic is prepared to give a statement 🤔 , I'd also be hopeful Gardai have checked any possible CCTV,

    Dare I say, this scumbag, likely known to Gardai given their disgraceful behaviour (IMO of course)

    I certainly would not be letting this Go

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,063 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Extremely hard to prove which is why he did it. So net result is you'll move your car and he wins. Unless you get a movement dash cam Theres not alot you can do here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,714 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I agree that the offence would be criminal damage. As to seriousness, the maximum penalty on summary conviction is €1,270 or 12 months. But I also agree that proving that "this fella from the other business" is responsible would be difficult, on the evidence currently available. Can the OP even identify him at the moment, never mind prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is responsible?

    None of which is to say that the OP should not report the matter to the guards - he should. A successful prosecution looks unlikely, but the guards may wish to have a conversation with the landowner, especially if the OP's complaint is not the only one they receive. And, if it is the landowner who is responsible, some police attention might help to put manners on him.

    I also agree that its entirely possible that the OP has no right to park in the right of way. That of course would not justify criminal damage, or be any kind of a defence to the charge. But I think the OP should stop parking there, and let his boss know why. If his boss has actually negotiated a right to park, them presumably he will want to defend that right and he will take the matter up with the landowner. But as matters stand the OP would, if challenged, be unable to prove that he has any right to park that the landowner must respect. If he has no right to park, then leaving his car there is a trespass.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The damage to your car is a serious matter and it is up to the Garda and the DPP how that will pan out.

    Equal serious is the fact that you seem to think it is acceptable to break the law if your boss tells you to. You are an adult and you are responsible for your actions - you knew you were trespassing and you continued to do so even after owner requested to move your car and just because the owner has plenty of space does not make it more acceptable. How far would you go? Health & safety regulations? Food safety regulations? Industrial espionage?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 In Actuality


    @Peregrinus s I agree that the offence would be criminal damage. As to seriousness, the maximum penalty on summary conviction is €1,270 or 12 months. But I also agree that proving that "this fella from the other business" is responsible would be difficult, on the evidence currently available. Can the OP even identify him at the moment, never mind prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is responsible?

    It baffles me you're so quick to assume I wouldn't be able to identify him. Having been onto my boss it turns out he is actually the owner of that business. A quick google of his first name and the company showed up who is was to me. I have of course stopped parking there. But plenty of the others from my company still park there. If he really had that much of an issue with it wouldn't he been putting notices on those cars, or have signs up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ID him doing the damage. Knowing someone did something and proofing they did it are completely different. Ask your local Garda who's been stealing, criminal damage, beating their wife etc and they'll give you a name a few people, most crime is committed by a small amount of people, getting enough proof to convict them is the problem.


    He told you not to park there why would he need a sign when he told you not to park, especially when people claim not to see signs.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Sabotaging your car, Could have caused an accident. Suspect most business have CCTV. an angle for the DPP would be if CCTV footage was available usually but no footage supplied at time of sabotage.

    Depending on his business it could be possible to anomyously and legally raise mischief for him



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,714 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I didn't assume that you couldn't identify him; I just raised the question of whether you could or not, since nothing in the OP suggested you knew anything about him beyond the fact that he was in some way connected with the other business. But as you do know who he is, well, great; that will certainly make it easier to make a complaint about him to the guards.

    But you raise a good point when you say that plenty of your colleagues still park there, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with that, because he hasn't being doing anything to discourage it. But that fact, if anything, suggests that he's less likely to have sabotaged your car, doesn't it? If he was pursuing a sustained campaign against unauthorised parking that others could testify to, that would be one thing, but he isn't; all we have is the fact that he exchanged words with you on one occasion. For whatever reason he seems to have taken a scunner against you - God knows why - but it's a pretty thin case on which to base an allegation of sabotage.

    I would still report this, if I were you, if only because if anything further happens you may be glad that there is already a record of this incident.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 In Actuality


    Well if he didn't, then who did? Funny thing was, on the day itself I had forgotten about where my boss had told me to park, and had went to drive straight in to where my place of work is. When I was nearly there I was blocked by this very guy's van as he was taking stuff out of it. He parked it in a very bad place as it was blocking anyone who wanted to pass in the opposite direction. There was no effort from him to communicate as I saw him at the rear of the van. He looked very grumpy. After about 15 seconds I got out to ask him if he'd be much longer, but just as I did he came around the other side of the van to get back into it. I got back into my car... he didn't say anything and neither did I. Then as I was able to drive through I realised what my boss had said about parking, so I doubled back (90 yards) to park it in the driveway I described earlier. I should've just left it there. I think he was just after parking his van at the point that I had parked. I've since noticed that there's a camera right over the parking space I was in; so he might have some explaining to do if it was turned off at the time he did the act.

    I remember walking past him a few days earlier and thinking "he looks like a right a$shole, thank God I don't have to deal with him as he's working for a different company". Of course I was wrong as my car was parked on his property and he was the owner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭seagull


    If there's a camera there, get onto the gardai quickly and ask them to request footage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,714 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    "If he didn't, then who did" is not a basis on which he can be charged, much less convicted. If you can get other evidence, it's a different story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 In Actuality


    Funnily enough the guard I gave the statement to sort of talked me into saying that I didn't take the threat literally. On the one hand, I didn't take it literally, but at the same time I didn't really know how to take it as I don't know the guy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭paul71




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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 In Actuality


    Well serious crime as it is, wouldn't it be abuse and not assault?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Waiting as his van blocked the road, asking him how long he would be only to then drive through and back and park at a spot that meant you didn't need to pass the van at all suggests to me that you are causing a great deal of this trouble yourself.

    Just imagine how this looked to the property owner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭paul71


    No its assault. I am unaware of any criminal offence called abuse.


    Non Fatal offences against the persons Act 1997.

    Assault.

    2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

    (a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

    (b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

    without the consent of the other.



    Also Section 5.


    5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

    (2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

    (a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or

    (b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

    without the consent of the other.


    I don’t think the above would count



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭paul71


    Followed him 150 meters to say "I'm gonna F8cking kill ya"

    Seems to meet the criteria, most definitely worthy of a criminal compliant of assault to the Guards and should they fail to interview the person then a question could certainly be posed as to why. The DPP in all likelyhood would not prosecute but a criminal investigation would send a message to this clown to tone down his behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭paul71


    Complaint (Why did boards remove edit button), my spelling is exposed for all to see!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Where do you park now out of interest?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Equal serious is the fact that you seem to think it is acceptable to break the law if your boss tells you to

    Is illegal parking really equally serious to drilling a hole in the radiator and air con of someone's car??



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    But that never happened. He said "if you park there again I'll fcuking kill ya", it’s literally in the OP in quotation marks. Nothing immediate about a threat based in the future.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    At the end of the day the law is the law and your boss can't give you an exemption. And on top of that the OP has nothing more than a suspicion and that's about as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to actually taking any action.



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