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Is communism as bad as people say

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  • Communism can't work. Neither can capitalism except for the top few people.

    Right now things are set up to allow the massive flow of capital "upwards". Pretty great trick pulled off by the rich tbh. Constantly squeezing the middle, reducing their relative income til they're no better off than someone choosing not to work etc. Property price increases were the first try, now they've managed to make it all about rent prices. Most of the younger (not already bought property) people who can afford to live in Dublin are either paid for by the government (tax money goes to the already wealthy) or the very well off. Same is happening across Europe, rent increases, government subsidies (just consider that, price of something doubles in 5 years and the government keeps pouring money at it.

    Those on the left have been caught hook, line and sinker. Focussing on "justice" which achieves nothing. At the end of the day if 90% have a fall in living standards it's better than 10% of people having an improvement, it's all about equality.

    Strong structures in political and financial terms are required for anything resembling fairness. I'd be fairly centrist but aside from outside influences the main thing that is needed is leaders with principles. "Right", "Left", whatever, doing what's right for the country rather than what's right for an ideology or a donor is what matters most.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    oh theres no question history is extremely important in this, but just a side note, there is an element of truth in the saying,' history is written in the words of the victor'!

    we must actually accept, our modern form of capatalism is actually based on pure bulls1ht beliefs and understanding of the world, in particular human behavior, but theres many other truly disturbing beliefs beliefs wrapped up in it.

    theres actually no need for these type of outcomes, property and health care, we actually know how to build, and we have a far better understanding of human needs, physically, psychologically, emotionally etc etc, and how to provide them, including in care, but........

    we must actually accept, the metrics we use to measure such outcomes, are actually no longer fit for purpose, the methods we use to measure, are actually no longer working, we havent actually advanced these methods, in relation to our advancements in our understanding of our world and our needs. whats actually happening is, we re in severe decline in regards our emotionally and psychological needs, and this is reveling itself in increasing social dysfunctions



  • Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭ monseiur


    Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles have a lot to answer for, they dreamed up & promised Nirvana to the underclasses & oppressed but their ideas, which on paper, seemed theoretically OK (to a dreamer) but in practice and in the hands of tyrants, in just dumped more hardship, suffering and misery on the working class - the very class they proclaimed to free form the chains & shackles of slavery and oppression



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭ patnor1011


    According to western wannabe communists (or true communists) that was not "true communism" and not even "true socialism".



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    The thread title makes me even more sure that our very high level of university educated folk is a bad thing



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭ patnor1011


    Nah. This is not problem of capitalism alone. This is how we function basically from start. Things are always easier at the start and then as system grow it become dysfunctional due to more and more regulations and attempt to keep everyone somehow content or pleased.

    Then when it become untenable we usually see wars and coups and uprisings - a sort of a reset which allow us to start again only to fluck it up again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    true, dysfunction occurs for various different reasons, but there is truth in, a truly unregulated world would be un-survivable for all, but some regulations certainly make no sense at all, we constantly need to change our regulatory systems in relation to our changing world, but we re clearly now in a state of rapid decline for all, including for the wealthy

    theres actually no real need for the type of reset you mentioned, theres actually a good chance if we do indeed engage in the types you mentioned, particular war, that would probably be the end of our species, due to the development of modern war tech. we could use the approaches to war though, to truly prevent it, we rarely say in such situations, 'we cant afford to go to war', only when we do! we ve figured out how to create vast quantities of money with relative ease, we just havent figured out how to re-distribute it very well, figure that out, and there would probably be no need for the war bit



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭ Yurt2


    I was pointing out the myth that shoe shiners got paid the same as medical doctors in places like the Soviet Union / GDR. That was absolutely not the case but is a common refrain from some quarters about the Eastern Bloc countries.

    By all means criticise communism, there's plenty of fodder, but that is one of the myths.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    ah shur look, society needs a lot more than just academically trained people, we re painfully figuring that one out



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,710 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    In practice Communism was a failure and it's not like we dabbled in it for a few years, it was a consolidated failure over decades. Attempts to rebalance wealth were actually successful, but not quite in the way it was originally envisioned, essentially everyone became poor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    This country will be one of the first to go red should we ever see a return of communism spreading internationally in a big way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rich and middle-class folk championing it are some craic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    communism isnt coming back, we need to move on from this



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    Success for capitalism is a society that accepts ridiculous greed as something to be aspired to by everybody.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,333 ✭✭✭✭ Annasopra


    Apparently a "normal" woman is a busty blonde sexy page 3 model who wears make-up, short skirts and red lipsticks and has pouty lips.  Who knew. 👀😏

    ******



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,333 ✭✭✭✭ Annasopra


    You're the one making the statement they are. Wheres your proof.

    Apparently a "normal" woman is a busty blonde sexy page 3 model who wears make-up, short skirts and red lipsticks and has pouty lips.  Who knew. 👀😏

    ******



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭ mikethecop


    this is exactly the problem with communism ,


    its a great idea on paper but incompatible with humanity



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,860 ✭✭✭✭ nullzero


    The world around us. All of human history.

    Human beings can be incredibly benevolent and charitable but in the whole humanity is driven by the hubris of a small minority, it has led us to war, genocide, and as far as holocaust.

    Communism has killed an estimated 94 million people. Capitalism is an extremely flawed system but when it goes wrong it doesn't result in the catastrophic situations that communism has led to.

    Capitalism is crap, Communism is a disaster.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    Count the number of Communist countries left, that'll give you your answer OP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    Wearing Che t shirts and 'sticking it to the man'. Most grow out of it eventually.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭ WrenBoy


    I'm aware.

    Communism is a fashion statement a the minute, it isn't actually going to happen, people need to accept that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    so we all need to embrace greed, then what?

    im aware i live under a rock, but where is this fashionable at the moment?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭ WrenBoy


    America. Communism/ Socialism / Anarchism are the "in" cool views to ascribe to at the minute with younger people who I would wager don't have much knowledge of the ideologies they claim to support for the most part. It's counter culture stuff thats been going on forever its just communisms/ socialisms turn now.

    Online spaces most eveidently



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    Communism may not work but how many millions have capitalist countries like USA killed since after WW2, and continue to do so?

    Problem with capitalism is we're destroying everything around us and it just isn't sustainable, we should be looking at adopting other ways but I don't think we're capable of it and we'll plough on ahead until wars start kicking off, and then there's the whole climate change thing which capitalism just makes worse and worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ PeaSea



    "I've yet to meet anyone from Eastern Europe who thinks Communism was anything but a disaster for them."

    Not that clear cut :

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/15/european-public-opinion-three-decades-after-the-fall-of-communism/

    "Most Poles, Czechs and Lithuanians, and more than four-in-ten Hungarians and Slovaks, believe the economic situation for most people in their country today is better than it was under communism .... However, in Russia, Ukraine and Bulgaria, more than half currently say things are worse for most people now than during the communist era."



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    ah id somewhat disagree there, we ve been engaging in a form of anarchist capatalism for a long time now, so nothing truly new there, my suspicions also being, very few are actually truly advocating for these ideologies, theyre actually just expressing their anger and frustrations towards this form of capatalism, and are searching for alternatives, and the most commonly known alternatives, are the ones you mentioned. my suspicions again, most may not even truly understand what these alternatives even mean, including myself, again, its just a reaction to our current failures



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,370 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    “each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.”

    so If you say are single, busting your hole, upskilling, ‘flexible’...but living at home..

    youll get paid less then a cûnt who has no interest, no motivation, no get up and go, no aptitude or want to learn, a non performing son of a gun...but because his need is to feed a family of five and what not....

    been in a job where dicks like that were ‘looked after’... procreation was a passport to happyville for them..



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ PeaSea


    I'd like to see a system where there are sensible min / max salaries for 99%* of all jobs, say (and this is a non scientific quick example) min 30,000 max 80,000 ..... everyone has a wage that will sustain them, there is less inequality, yet room to aspire to a "better" (by which we normally mean well-paid) job. Never happen I know, but still.

    * Why 99% ? There are always going to be a few roles usually associated with fame like sports / movies / etc that will fetch more. What I'm talking about is your bus driver, doctor, IT worker, waiter, etc.



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