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Civil Service Flexitime



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭thefallingman

  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball

    DSP for my sins.

  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat

    Two things. Lots of civil servants don't have any flexitime, anyone from AP and above, for example.

    Secondly anyone who works in the CS and hasn't seen lazy colleagues abusing flexi is lying.

    One person in a Dept I used to work in used to come in at 7.30am and head off in to town in to coffee. She'd wander back around 8.45am with 1 hour and 15 of flexi built up, every morning.

    Imagine those people with WFH and flexitime.

  • Just on the above, you cant accrue flexi before 8am! Or more than 11.5 hours in a four week period.

    I'm not going to deny there are those who abuse flexi, but if this woman's pattern of behaviour was well known, then the onus was on her supervisor to pull her up on it.

    You wouldn't get away with that where I work.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    Does this mean AP and above aren't trustworthy. Or if someone doesn't have flexi they couldn't just leave their office for a few hours and do nothing, or just sit at their desk and do nothing. None of that is Unique to CS.

    What is means is their performance and output regardless of who they are or public or private is not being measured.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭Conqueror

    In Health, one was able to accrue flexi from 7:30am from early 2019.

  • Okay, I didn't know that about Health - but it still doesn't change the fact that supervisors should be responsible for making sure this type of abuse doesn't happen amongst their staff. If someone is getting away with this kind of abuse, I see that as a failure on the part of their manager to manage.

    There was flexi abuse going on in my department a few years ago but HRD went on a purge. A lot of people got into a LOT of trouble, and there were consequences, including suspensions, withdrawal of increments, people permanently removed from flexitime, amongst other measures taken. It doesn't go on any more.

    But, the thing is, someone like that woman mentioned is what makes the argument for the retention of flexi-leave difficult. They ruin it for everyone, including for those who are not abusing it. If someone can't accrue extra hours, there is no point them logging on/showing up at 7:30am and staying until 7:00pm.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly

    I knew an ap who would wander in at 9 go to the canteen after putting their coat in the office and be still there at 1030 when I went for my tea break.

    The person would then complain how busy they were 🤣.

    You just couldn't make it up.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly

    The only thing is its harder to hide in an open plan office. The APs working with the plebs was a real struggle for them. They couldn't pretend to be working. 😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat

    That's only true if you think clocking on and off is the only way to measure performance and output.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭thefallingman

    We have them, sign in at 8am, then breakfast at their desk till 9am, then "tea break" at 1030, but not for the required 20 minutes, they take 45. Then the oul 30 minutes flexi lunch that lasts an hour, these are people crying to work from home and they can't be trusted and their stats are way down but noone says anything, because all of the boss's are at home doing the same thing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    That was MY point :) I was being rhetorical.

    Its that old argument, how do you know if people are working at home? The answer to that is well how do you know they are working in the office? Often the answer is you don't know what they are doing in the office. THAT is why you don't know what they are doing at home.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    That's the other side of it. you can only know how much something is improved by measuring the before and after. if no one does this. Or if people ignore the stats, then they can make up any story they like. Something like is a culture thats driven from he top down.

    This is why they come up with things like Competency interviews and PDMS system. The bluffers can avoid having to use metric's and output when getting up the ladder. Once there they are unable to answer any question about anything.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly

    There was a big debate moving to Miesian plaza about the location of the clocks. Some didn't want a clock and you'd have to log into your pc and clock in. They eventually relented.

    As for the lobby and having it next to the canteen but I can't go there.

    My dept has to clock in at a pc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭caviardreams

    Yes, but the problem is any kind of meaningful performance management in the CS means the boss comes under fire from the unions or you end up with a bullying complaint. So you just have to let it go as HR aren't going to take a tough enough stance to remove the problem.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,067 ✭✭✭Augme

    There are people who will do anything to avoid work. In every walk of life Nd job. They are easier to get rid of in the private sector though.

    There are many problems in the civil service. Weak managers, weak hrs, weak unions. These allow people to do nothing and get away with it. But another big problem is that they've taken the attitude that the best way to deal with the underperforms in to treat a large portion of the civil service like a child.

    The quality of managers in the civil service is poor. As is the quality of training on offer to them. There's never any requirements to upskill or improve your skills and management skills. If someone does want to learn it is basically done on a voluntary basis. Probation is too easy to pass and so is the yearly performance review.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭billyhead

    I think a lot of Departments are clamping down on underperformance and PIPs are now the go to wherever it occurs.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    People do lots of courses lots of qualifications. They learn nothing from them as they just need to tick that box.

  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Karlos77

    Do you think they will ever get rid of flexi time in the civil service.

    I am going for Ap and the downside is lack of flexi time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball

    It's not available to anyone in my Department that works remotely at the minute. Will you be working full time in the office at AP level?

    I miss the Flexi days but the option to work from home is saving me over 2 hours commuting time per day.

    Hard to see it being completely removed for staff full time in the office but may be not be as flexible with less staff availing of it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    You've had no flexitime during lockdown. Was it manageable.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ConsRoxMySox

    Precovid my line manager used to rock into the office after ten, be gone by four and maybe he'd occasionally stay a bit later. Somehow would still have enough flexi built to take his day and a half per month. Dunno what kind of arrangement he had with the AP...

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly

    Had an ap who used to work from home a day a week.

    Waltzed in at 930 and went straight to the canteen for breakfast for an hour. Add to that 2 hours lunch and gone by 5 the other days.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭jaffa20

    How long is the paid tea break? Hear different stories from everyone. 15mins, 20mins or 30mins?

  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball

    20 minutes as far as I know, don't think I've ever seen that confirmed though.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭billyhead

    It varies widely how long staff take a tea break. Some staff take to the piss and go missing from their desks for about 30-40 mins.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭Sarn

    The statutory break is 15 minutes and would coincide with the morning tea break. It is paid for.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭jaffa20

    Thanks all, I can see why i'm hearing different times from people now 😂

  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭EO2019

    There is a 15 min morning and 15 min evening tea break. Most places people take 1 break in the morning around 20 mins instead of taking an evening break.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Vologda69

    Flexitime back for DSP staff who are in the office full time from end of February.