Irish Soccer (domestic) & Antisocial Violence

EmmetSpiceland

Is it time to play Irish soccer’s marquee events “behind closed doors”? Or at least keep them out of the Aviva. Maybe put them on in Dalymount or, even, Tolka Park?

Time after time we see terrible crowd trouble before, and after, these games. Especially ones involving Bohs or Shamrock Rovers. Nothing ever seems to be done and if it’s brought up League of Ireland fans go to great lengths to tell you about how family friendly the games are and how this is a small, unwelcome, “element”. I’m not so sure.

I don’t know if many of you got sent any of the videos showing the violent “scenes” that went on in Ringsend/Irishtown earlier this evening. Really terrible stuff. I, myself, was in that general area after a number of rugby matches there last month. No trouble. I wasn’t in the Irishtown House, obviously, but I was in The Vintage, The Yacht, The Merry Cobbler and John Clarkes. Not a bother. Same goes when teams like England are over.

From the clips I was sent it was clear that the Bohs fans were the aggressors, incredible to think that a large number of these “fans” were hardcore Manchester United fans only a few years ago, throwing bottles and flares into the areas, some covered, where the Pats fans were drinking. 

I’m aware there were “jokes” going around about how the Boh lads thought that Pats was short for the patriarchy, due to the clubs admirable work in social justice, and they wanted to “smash” them but this was truly shocking, and violent, behaviour. 

I, personally, have been vocal about the League of Ireland getting more funding and trying to build a “stronger” domestic game but whenever I’ve voiced these concerns over the level of crowd violence I have been met with dismissal and mockery. 

Is it time something serious was done to discourage grown men turning up to games “tooled up” looking for trouble? What sort of message is this sending to the younger generation of fans?

Link to, very brief, story on RTÉ’s website: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1128/1263677-gardai-probe-violent-scenes-ahead-of-fai-cup-final/

Thelonious Monk

It was some handbags outside Lansdowne. Just tracksuited youngfellas doing their thing. I go to Bohs matches regularly since the early 90s and never see any carry on. It's a pity there were disturbances yesterday as people use it as a stick to beat the LOI with. Sure aren't referees being assaulted and brawls happening all the time in GAA, but you can't say anything against the hallowed gaelic games.

EmmetSpiceland

Ah, it was a lot more than “handbags”, T. It was savagery. I can’t imagine how someone going to their first LoI game would have felt. Doubt they’d want to go again.

These are the times when the fans should be focused on getting more people into the “fan base”. I was watching the game, myself, on TV. As were others who wouldn’t normally see a LoI game. Having flares going off inside the grounds during it, making it look like something from Holland in the 80s or a derby in Turkey just doesn’t help.

As for the GAA, yes, they have their own “problems” but that tends to stay on the pitch, or pitch side. I can’t remember ever seeing rival GAA fans, at club or county level, viciously attacking other, outside or inside pubs, like hooligans. Aside from the underage brawls the last trouble I can remember at a GAA match is when a Louth fans ran on to the pitch to get at the ref after Meath won a “controversial” Leinster final in 2010.

Maybe the next cup final should be heavily policed, with the rival fans not being allowed near each other, like an “Old Firm” game in Glasgow.

SteM

I was down in Ringsend before the 2019 cup final vs Dundalk and saw no violence at all so what would playing it behind closed doors have changed? What would moving matches to Dalymount or Tolka achieve? Neither ground is suitable for a match that size. You say that Bohs fans were the aggressors but suggest moving finals to Dalymount, do you think that would help?

Madeoface

I was at the match with my 7 year old. No trouble in the ground, great atmosphere.

Not sure if the scum throwing bottles in irishtown even went to the match? Maybe some bohs fans on here might know. Looked like the same scumbags that ran amok in Wicklow st in the summer. A gang of cowardly thick fcuks looking for trouble.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238394#Comment_118238394

You must go around with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears if you've never seen problems around Dalymount

This was more than handbags, but until the league acknowledge that they have a problem with this, it's unlikely a solution will ever happen.

SteM

The final should not have kicked off at 4pm by the way, being a Dublin derby it should have been an early kick off. UK police insist on certain derbies being played early to avoid trouble around pubs.

Gas how all the #think32 lads from Bohs were fighting outside a pub like a common English football hooligan.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238941#Comment_118238941

Not realky though.

There is trouble at football matches in every country in the world.

Why you think its an English thing is bizzare and some weird logic.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058220248/irish-soccer-domestic-antisocial-violence

Very surprised at this. I would have had you down as a fan of Woke FC if i'd had to guess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238978#Comment_118238978

What is it about soccer that attracts this element? You never see the same at Rugby or Gaelic Games.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239142#Comment_118239142

Rugby's for poshos and GAA is mostly middle class in Dublin or for country folk. Football is the only sport really for most working class Dubs, who tend to be a bit rowdier. Bohs have catchment areas like Finglas where there's a constant stream of young gurriers looking for trouble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239191#Comment_118239191

So what is it about working class Dubs that they can't help beating the shite out of each other? Are the inbred or something?

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238941#Comment_118238941

Fighting is hardly an English phenomenon. Hooligans from every country engage in this pastime.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239276#Comment_118239276

Youths from certain demographics around the world are more likely to get into trouble, humans gonna hume.

Pawwed Rig

I was there with my 5 year old and 7 year old. They both had a great time although little girl was a bit afraid of the bangers.

I am ambivalent on the flares tbh. It creates a good spectacle but probably not the safest in a stadium setting.

That said I don't see anyone arguing that we don't have an issue in Dublin with a proportion of the population being semi feral and the Gardai should do their job and the clubs should ban anyone identified permanently. I don't see any reason to stop a huge event going ahead.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239005#Comment_118239005

Haha, F, but no. While I do admire what the club has done in supporting refugees, anti racism and Direct Provision I wouldn’t have any attachment, or desire, to support the club.

From what I can gather a large portion of the fans don’t support the club’s “forays” into social justice. I remember one user, on here, saying a certain section are older men who wouldn’t have finished school and they’d have no time for such things.

No, I’d keep an eye on UCD results but haven’t been to a game of theirs since my student days. I’ve been to a few other games as well. I, personally, had a memorable evening in Richmond park when Pats were playing Bohs, but it was marred by crowd trouble when a number of Bohs supporters came into Pat’s “shed” and started throwing things and attacking fans. They were run out fairly quickly but it was still pretty frightening.

Blaming “feral youth” is a cop out. These kids aren’t licking it off the stones. This is generational hooliganism.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

This is the kind of thing you would only see in Dublin: the importation of the worst parts of English culture, in this case hooliganism.

You wouldn’t see this kind of carry on in Kerry, Cork, or Donegal. Not a single Irish person from outside The Pale would be seen dead chanting ‘oo aw ya, ‘oo aw ya or smashing car windows. Dublin is a kip.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239618#Comment_118239618

I just said "feral" not "feral youth" as blaming the younger lads overlooks a large part of the problem

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239191#Comment_118239191

Rugby's for poshos 

are you posting from the 1990s? and as for GAA being a middle class thing just JFC.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240143#Comment_118240143

The only people I've ever met that played rugby in Dublin went to private schools. GAA seems to be more middle class now in Dublin yes, David McWilliams did a podcast on it I believe. In saying that I live in Coolock and there's a GAA club down the road but you're far more likely to see my neighbours in a Man Utd or Liverpool jersey than a Dublin one.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240176#Comment_118240176

there is a world outside of your experience.

dreamers75

I was in the Irishtown House when this happened, the Bohs fans about 20 or so looking like cheap polish bouncers all dressed in black.

Shame there is no video of the one bohs fan who got his head put through a car window.

Hurling seems to be the ‘posh’ GAA sport in Dublin these days.

dreamers75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239142#Comment_118239142

lol ok

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wicklow-gaa-to-investigate-brawl-filmed-at-under-15s-match-1.4696673

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240205#Comment_118240205

Everyone is a “True Blue” Gaelic fan in Dublin now that they’ve been winning (most of the) All Irelands in the past few years.

A few seasons without Sam and you will see the attendance dwindle, people dismantling their Dublin GAA themed home bars etc. They’re called Fair Weather fans.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239927#Comment_118239927

Really? No problems with Belfast clubs, cork city FC, Limerick, Derry, Waterford.

Dublin may indeed be a kip but my first experience of crowd trouble was Waterford fans in the 79/80 cup final. So I don't necessarily agree with your well thought out thesis.

Urban populations, neglected kids, high unemployment areas etc. That's usually how these things work... The entitlement culture isn't helping either but that's another issue.

Outside the pale??? Glad the broadband roll out has reached the agricultural peasant / townie level. Maybe now you can set the century settings on your clock forward just a little.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238394#Comment_118238394

You're either lying or deluded. There's videos doing the rounds after every Rovers/Bohs game of lads throwing stuff at each other on publc streets

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240246#Comment_118240246

You’re saying I’m a person out of time and yet here you are talking about a match you attended forty years ago. Let’s stick to what happened yesterday in Dublin, shall we?

It was a disgrace.

circadian

Ah, I don't think it's that bad. Scumbags will look for any reason for a scrap, a sports game is as good a reason as any for them.

The best thing the clubs and LOI can do here is ban anyone identified.

I remember years ago after a Derry match a load of Bohs fans came up to me and a few other fellas saying they were heading to a pub in the Fountain looking for a fight. Best of luck we said. I don't think it fared too well. This is the level of critical thinking that's going on with a handful of fans, it's not representative of the league or fanbase on the whole.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240176#Comment_118240176

Very few United jerseys around these days, T. Hard to find anyone who claims to be a United “fan”.

One of the big drivers in LoI attendances over the last few years, after the soccer hipsters were “attracted” in, was the swift decline of MUFC.

I would have grave “concerns” about these supporters flocking back to the pubs for United games should their new manager(s) get them winning again. We are dealing with very fickle people here.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240317#Comment_118240317

I know plenty of United fans, many of them also follow teams in the LOI. They aren't mutually exclusive. What are you on about with fickle people? United fans for football fans in general?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240317#Comment_118240317

My nextdoor neighbours are Utd fans, jerseys etc. Another neighbour goes to Old Trafford regularly, and another friend of mine. They're still out there!

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240393#Comment_118240393

That's the thing like every sport is the same, when certain teams do well they attract more supporters. I never stopped watching Ireland games but lots of people wouldn't know anyone on the team these days as we have been awful for years. If we improve in future we'll get loads on the bandwagon, and sure why not it's only a game.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240393#Comment_118240393

Just United fans. I’d be a Leeds fan, myself, so I stuck with, what I would call, “my team”. A lot of Liverpool fans would have gone through something similar but not up the same degree, obviously.

But since United’s dip in form over the past few years years I have noticed a, considerable, “drop” in jersey wearing and when talking to, previously, life long United fans they’ve suddenly stopped following the English Premier League and now they’ve either started “supporting” Rovers, or Bohs, talking about the purity of live soccer or they simply don’t watch soccer at all.

It’s terrible to see and I really do hope that the LoI attendances don’t suffer if United, suddenly, start winning silverware and these fickle, glory hunting, “fans” dig out their old jerseys, stretch them over their protruding bellies and go back to the pubs to scream at a television for the afternoon, and beyond.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240516#Comment_118240516

I don't know where you're getting this theory from. The types who support Liverpool and Man U etc around where I live anyway would never even think of going to an LOI game regardless of their teams form. I think Bohs has a few hipster supporters because of the location of Dalymount, but people overplay this, there must be a few "woke" people in the administration of the club with the refugee and craft beer stuff but the fans are mostly the same as they always have been from what I have seen at the ground.

SteM

OP posting such rubbish on this thread. He should look at getting the inverted comma button on his "keyboard" fixed instead.

shillyshilly

ROVERS ULTRAS 4 LIFE

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240551#Comment_118240551

I’ve pieced it together from general “observation” and talking to, a number, of ex-United fans, T.

I’ve mentioned it a couple of times on the site now, but in the office hear we had some, diehard, United fans who’d have a good bit of friendly and, sometimes, not so friendly “banter” with the office Liverpool fans.

This all stopped when Liverpool won the champions league, suddenly none of the previously “die hard” fans supported their old side anymore. This was compounded when Liverpool went on to win the league. I have to say I felt a bit bad when the Liverpool fans were trying to give a bit back but they were coming up against a “brick wall”.

This wasn’t just “isolated” to the office though. I’d noticed a number of others who, only a few years previous, had been shouting in pubs about their team, United, being the best team in the world. A very fickle fan base. Remains to be seen if they’ll reappear if United turn things around.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240211#Comment_118240211

Whataboutery at its finest...

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240760#Comment_118240760

Mod note: I am not convinced that this thread is not a exercise in trolling but will leave it open for the time being however if you want to start doing the Pool v United nonsense take it elsewhere.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240870#Comment_118240870

Eh, apologies, P, but as I said previously I’m a Leeds fan. Just had sympathies for the Liverpool fans.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238647#Comment_118238647

Moving matches to Dalymount or Tolka would achieve moving the games to the North Side who's supporters are from a lower class compared to our esteemed rugby fraternity.

Larbre34

I daresay footie hooligans in other lands would split their sides if you showed them what passed for "trouble" in Irish domestic fixtures.

That said, there is a misuse of social media to hijack the occasion of bigger matches for the purposes of organising a bit of aggro and the Guards really do need to do a better job of getting ahead of it, to put plain clothes officers in the field and identity trouble makers to be snatched by the public order units whenever things get a bit fruity.

Clubs too need to improve their intel and cooperation and make sure anyone actually affiliated with them gets appropriate bans.

But, its its very little to do with the football itself and talk of matches being played behind closed doors and so on is just daft.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240278#Comment_118240278

I was also at the game yesterday Fr. Dougal, with one of my kids. It was a terrific atmosphere inside the ground. I've been to many LOI games over 40 years or so , so I've witnessed a bit of trouble...with a small t, so I can tell you too that it is not an 'only' Dublin thing as you claim (without any evidence). I've even seen minor trouble at A league soccer matches in Sydney derbies... only Dublin!

Yes, it is a bigger issue up here 'in the Pale' because of the reasons outlined.... but I can see the Queens English is not the first language taught in the hedge school, so I'll go back to polishing my statue of Cromwell if you don't mind while I work out if the collective tax transfers from the wealth within 'the Pale' can reach your village...what do you need? Dentists? Teachers? Livestock?

(Nobody on here is saying what those utter scrotes did was not a disgrace btw, what an obvious thing to state. It is even more disgraceful than elected councillors in Kerry beating up tourists or Wicklow GAA refs being bundled into the boots of cars etc....Ireland has scum and scrotes everywhere, just more in Dublin....'cos its bigger).

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240927#Comment_118240927

Does “better policing” solve the problem though? The violence that went on yesterday wasn’t nothing. The fireworks at the Rovers game a few weeks back weren’t nothing either. And the string of violent disturbances before, and during, LoI games Aren’t nothing either.

This sort of thing is stopping the domestic game from ever taking a proper hold in this country.

Has Bohs ‘poet in residence’ come out with a few lines to condemn this?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240959#Comment_118240959

Good man yourself, take the rest of the week off.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240959#Comment_118240959

It’s, eh, Queen’s English, dude.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238394#Comment_118238394

Sure aren't referees being assaulted and brawls happening all the time in GAA, but you can't say anything against the hallowed gaelic games.

But their not, that's the thing, that's just something people like yourself rabbit on about when you need to defend what you are defending

You go to any GAA game, national, provincial or local and you will see a huge range of people at it, people from 8 months to 80 years, families, kids, young lads, young girls.

All genders, all ages.

You go to a LOI soccer match or a Ireland game, it's mainly men, a lot of fathers with just their sons, a lot of young males.

It has nothing of like the diversity of attendance GAA has.

skaface

Those Bohs scum also attacked innocent Waterford Supporters coming out of Dalymount after the cup semifinal a few weeks ago.. It's starting to rear its ugly head again, but it's never really gone away, just happens at some grounds more than others.. Unfortunately, it's a minority that end up tarnishing a club.. Most supporters of loi teams wouldn't want anything to do with the English Disease