Nearly shot.

Chiparus

I was walking in my lease as I heard a shot and thought it was a poacher , I went to where I heard the shot and I heard a shot very close by and a fawn went down about 30 mt from me in a field adjacent to the wood , I saw the shooter come out about another 200 mt away on the field adjacent to the wood. this meant that I was only 10 mt to the right of where the deer was shot and 25 mt behind.

The shooter admitted he was using the wood as a backstop , this was at 2pm in the afternoon , he then threatened to "wipe my phone " if I took a picture of him. He did not apologise and was very aggressive.

Is there anything I should do?

ayagerard

first question here would be had this man permission on the land where he was shooting and took the first shot

Chiparus

Yes he claimed he did, and that he was not expecting anyone to be in the wood. He was in the field adjacent to the wood.

Chiparus

Whiteboard-2021-11-25-10-30-37.pdf

Xa my location

Xb shot deer

Xc shooter position

deeksofdoom

That's worrying alright, I was out there walking the dog during the summer and found a target behind a tree which was at the edge of the wood. Judging by the holes in the target whoever was using it was a numpty because there was no discernable groups on it. The wood went down into a glen and up the other side to fields of cattle. Looked like he was using silhouetted trees and fresh air as a backstop.

Cass

Just trying to get this pinned down in terms of details and "timeline".

You were in your lease already or went to it because you heard a shot. You went towards the sound of the shot when a second shot (?) was fired and you found/seen a shot Deer on land (adjacent to yours) you don't have permission on (at least you don't say you do) while still remaining on your permission/lease. The person that shot the Deer does have permission on the land they were on (or at least claims to) and the Deer was shot on "his" land? You say/show based on where the Deer was, the shooter's position and your position that the shot was fired close/near to you?

Have I got that correct?

My first bit of advice is always to go to An Gardaí/NPWS if there is something you believe needs dealing with on a legal matter. We are not the internet police and legal advice cannot be given only spoken about in broad terms of leigslation, interpretation, etc.

On a personal note it seems as though the guy was, on the face of it and given the lack of actual verifiable information, "in the right" to shoot a Deer on "his" land. He should have made sure of the backstop (and how safe it was) before firing, but then again we don't know what he did or did not see (refering to seeing you). From the diagram you provided he either knew there was a walkwaythroughway as his position relative to the Deer kept the shot from being in line with the marked "walkthrough", or simply luck was on his side. If he was unsure he should not have taken the shot, but again its impossible to know what he did or did not see, again given the diagram the trees seemed to block his "periphery". You said you went towards the sound of the first shot, and based on the diagram, the Deers position and his, that seems to be the case, so it would imply there was a safe backstop for his first shot (in that he seen nothing to prevent him taking the shot) and your presence was only an issue for the second shot? Or were you very close to the position you were in for the first shot as for the second shot?

There is also the possibility that he [the other guy] had target fixation. In other words he seen the Deer, and took the shot (whether he saw the woodland behind it or not). Either missed with the first shot and followed up with the second or put a second round into the the same Deer. In either scenario he could have been so focused on the Deer as to forget about checking/re-checking the backstop before firing. Its something you may never know. I mean for all you know he was a complete Dick with no sense of safety, waiting for Deer to appear from a lease he knows they come out off, and to pick them off as they do.

Poacher or not its a bad idea to walk towards where the sound of shots is coming from for this very reason. I have been in this position twice over the past 30 years and its unnerving, unsettling and basically puts the sh*ts up you so DO NOT take anything I've said above as an attack on you. Its not that, but instead I'm simply going through the events, as you've described them, in an attempt to show that it seems like a simple case of mistiming but with a good outcome (you were not injured/hurt).

However if you suspected a Poacher, reckless shooting, or any other actual crime, the best advice is always to remove yourself from the area, take note of any cars/vehicles you don't recognise, record the time, date and location of the incident, and report it to the relevant authority.

ayagerard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219869#Comment_118219869

well then if he had permission he has done little wrong legally unless you were visible to him or announced your presence verbally before the second shot .witch you have not stated . from that point forward i also would not like my photo taken by a stranger of me with gun and angry face for obvious reasons and what has happed across the pond. had you your gun in hand at the time of this encounter that would have shown him you were in deed another hunter and not some free spirit wishing to plant roots

beyond that . his mood and aggression is not typical of most hunters that i have met. his attitude means you will not forget him be it all for the wrong reasons

i am not trying to take sides on this but to see both sides

Chiparus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220397#Comment_118220397

I was in the wood to see if I could find a piece of my rifle that I lost a week previously , I was not shooting. I heard a shot and figured the general direction it came from I went towards the first shot as I thought there was a poacher , it was 20 minutes before I arrived at where I thought the shot came from, that's when I heard the 2nd shot , I had just crossed the line of the 2nd shot as I had walked through the wood, from west to east.

The shooter was using the wood I was in as a backstop. I did not like the way he threatened me.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118221033#Comment_118221033

Please don't take this as me saying you were in the wrong in any way, however I would myself shy away from anything close to a confrontation with someone with a gun.

Cass

Chiparus - I was in the wood to see if I could find a piece of my rifle that I lost a week previously

It was your land/lease so there is no need to "excuse" yourself for being there and just to be clear I was not implying anything of the sort. I know/assume you didn't take it as such, but just to be clear. You were perfectly entitled to be where you were. I only ask about location to establish position when the shots were fired.

Chiparus - , I was not shooting. I heard a shot and figured the general direction it came from I went towards the first shot as I thought there was a poacher , it was 20 minutes before I arrived at where I thought the shot came from, that's when I heard the 2nd shot , I had just crossed the line of the 2nd shot as I had walked through the wood, from west to east.

Right, so you were obviously some distance away. Be that hundreds of metres or more. You were also traversing the woods so most likely not in sight for any/most of it, which is pretty standard when stalking. Because of the time between the first and second shot and given neither of ye knew where the other was or in his case there was another person there at all, its safe to say his actions, ie. the second shot, was taken with some degree of safety and care because in his mind (again all assumption) who would walk "into gunfire"?

Chiparus - The shooter was using the wood I was in as a backstop.

Unfortunately no one, not even you, can speak to what he done, was thinking, etc. from a safety point of view. I can only make a guess that his first shot illicited no response and his second, given the time between shots, was still (in his mind) a safe shot.

Personally I wouldn't shoot in the direction a wood if I knew it was hunted land, and especially when I've no permission. I understand the chap shot at a Deer on his land and presumed the wood to be a safe backstop, so to me he was within his "right" to take the shot, and it boils down to personal opinons of everyone as to whether they would have taken it or not.

We can speculate s to whether the bullet passed through, stopped dead in the animal, etc. but as its all supposition it serves no real function othert han to create multiple scenarios of "what if".

Chiparus - I did not like the way he threatened me.

I'm sure we all had encounters over the years that left us with a bad taste in our mouths, or angry/annoyed. I would only say the following as a means of providing insight to both sides. If someone were on land bordering my permissions and wanted to take photos of me, my gun, my actions, on my land because they believed they were wronged (or in the right, depending on how you look at it), I would defend myself (verbally obviously, not in the least bit hinting at anything otherwise), and my position of being in the right.

The other part is have you ever gotten a fright that made you react in anger. Perhaps the chap was startled by your appearance, the confrontation and imagery of what could have happened ran through his mind and his first defence was to lash out?

All I'm getting at here, again without taking sides, is its not a good situation to be in and thank God nobody was actually hurt or worse. It'll give the other chap food for thought before he next fires towards a wood and you to steer clear of the sound of gun shots.

Apologies if that comes across as taking sides or lecturing, its not intended, but everyday can be a school day.

Chiparus

Thanks , I suppose I should not have gone to investigate , but the timing of the shot in the early afternoon, i.e after I normally leave the I assumed it was a poacher - you lives you learns .

kunekunesika

Did something similar myself a few years back.headed directly to the sound of a shot to investigate???? What was I thinking. Took cover behind a wall when the second shot rang out. Stayed behind the wall for a very long time, and swore Id never do it again. Found out who it was, and what they were at, later. All legit, only dangerous activity was me putting myself near harm's way. Swore I'd never do it again.

If I'm suspicious of poachers, head to where the cars are likely to be parked, take a picture of the regs and then head home. Pass them on to the landowner, and let them decide how they want to proceed.

Fairly sure if you had your rifle over your shoulder, the hunter never would have mentioned phone.

It still scares the bejayus out of ye.

hiddenmongoose

no skin in this game but it appears that , you heard a shot and walked towards it, confronted a man who had permission to hunt on the area you confronted him, you attempted to take pictures of him , you walked along the inside edge of a woodline while approaching an area you heard shooting.

To be fair you didnt make the greatest of safe decisions yourself and I can easily see why the other person would have been angry.

You should attempt to see The scenario from his perspective, and perhaps approach a similar situation in a different manner should it occur again.

Chiparus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224766#Comment_118224766

I did not confront him- that it your supposition , I said nothing until he threatened me. If it had been me , I would have approached , asked the person if they were ok and apologised. I would not , come over knife pointing and finger pointing threatening violence.

hiddenmongoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118228240#Comment_118228240

So you did not confront him and you said nothing...yet this man instantly became aggressive, threatened you and pointed a knife at you? very strange behaviour from someone who ,being a licenced firearm holder, is obviously an upstanding member of the public and not deemed to be of a threat to the public, something seems wrong here and perhaps the full story is not being told.

If you truly have an issue then report it to the guards. What exactly are you looking for from people on here, positive reinforcment that you were in the right? If you need post on a forum for that then you should probably already know the answer deep down.

Chiparus

That's what I thought. Very strange.

useurowname

Report to Gardai. Guy sounds like an accident in waiting, plus you say he threatened to take your phone and wipe it and was aggressive. IMO he shouldn’t have a gun.

Eddie B

I think the main thing we can take from this is to never go towards where shots are being fired for any reason. Such a thing could have ended very badly.

Richard308

To be fair I think the main thing to take from this is that common sense isn’t so common. Firstly I’ll take @Chiparus at his word until proven otherwise. The lad shooting perhaps fired shots without a backstop. Could have shot anyone or anything. Curiosity killed the cat thankfully not @Chiparus. getting in a discussion while carrying a rifle and a knife not very clever. Thankfully no one hurt. We live and learn.