Civil Service Resignation

Open competition might still mean a change of department and location.

Family circumstances might not make this easy or preferable. Easier for a single person, definitely.

Things are very, very different now than they were even 10 years ago when promotions were rarer and much more difficult to get and open competitions few and far between.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219260/civil-service-resignation

Public service reminds me of being at school. All anal old fashioned rules and hierarchy. No thanks

Hippo

Resigned from EO after 3 years. It's very disheartening when half the staff do little or nothing and it makes no difference to them in terms of promotion. Our dept/section had plenty of people who were clearly great at the competency-based interviews while under-performing in their roles. The interview was a skill I could never crack properly (and that was my fault) so despite my delivery of results and general performance I was finding it impossible to progress. I will say, while lots of staff were shall we say 'offhand' in their approach to work, there were many who were very dedicated and excellent at their job.

I've moved back to the private sector; I work longer hours but the pay is better and I receive proper recognition for my work. I'd never go back.

BrianD3

If someone has the option of leaving for the private sector they are probably in a good position. However, many long serving civil and especially public servants are stuck in a miserable rut. Work not valued, little or no promotional opportunities, private sector employers regard them as "ruined" and a worse prospect than an 18 year old with no experience. This is a valid view in some cases - there are some highly paid people who would not last 5 minutes in any private sector job, be it a senior executive or a burger flipper. No leadership, management or "doing" skills. OTOH, there are plenty of junior star performers doing great work and dealing with utter nonsense day in day out. But the longer they stay, the more chance that they will become that which they hate.

The prospect of a good pension (could be 10, 15, 20 years into the future) is about the only thing that keeps many going.

The pension system doesn't help - if you resign for a private sector job and don't return within 26 weeks you are on the single pension scheme if you do return. This contributes to the number of institutionalised lifers in the public service.

road_high

Seems to be more common from my experience. Especially I’ve seen a few with mid level with technical experience go to private sector. Re numeration and package simply can’t compete.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934523#Comment_118934523

This is objectively untrue.

I joined from the private sector about 6 years ago.

Since then there has been at least 2 competitions for each of EO, AO, AP, PO, and A/SEC with hundreds of people promoted.

Outside of that there have also been promotions available in specialist grades.

How can you therefore say in that context that there are little or no promotion opportunities?

jjnaas

I was a CO ''down the country'' for several years in my 20s. Caveat here that those years did overlap with some of the moratorium. I was the youngest in the office, one of only a handful of males (the others were all much older and farmers too) and the atmosphere was dreadful overall. We were all lined up and admonished for washing teaspoons after clocking back in after break by the HEO. Most of these ladies were 40+ and they were looking at the floor taking this from a Hitlerette high on power. I was eventually moved to a Revenue office doing collections which turned out to be worse. One of the EOs would stop chewing her gum when someone got a call so she could listen and then she would whisper to her pets about what the CO/TCO had done wrong and then email their EO behind their back. Another old timer kept track of people's days off and would shout across the room as someone left for a half-day ''you've only 5 days left now hahaha'' When the eavesdropper leaped out of her chair one day and shoved her face so close to mine that she got a red mark from my beard (all hoping to catch me out and gossip about me) I said that was it.

I left, worked in a shop, and applied for a springboard course. I'm now in the private sector and I absolutely love it. My supervisors have been much more handsoff and have treated me like an adult. it's much more performance-based. If you are not performing you're in trouble. I enjoy that though. I like being busy, I like pushing myself and the rewards for performing well are excellent so that's somewhat of motivation too. I've been promoted on performance and my supervisors have all pushed me to improve and helped me make connections to get ahead. And I WFH so there's no nonsense office drama which suits me down to the ground.

I know my experience isn't representative of the CS as a whole and I appreciate that there are more opportunities these days but I can only speak to my own experience and it wasn't for me. Looking back, I was so jaded and miserable at work that I didn't enjoy those years of my youth as I should have. I had a sick relative so emigrating wasn't an option but I don't look back. No point.

The Buster

After 15 or 16 years I left privatr sector and joined civil service stayed 3 years and back in private again.

There are advatages to both

• Paid more in private. Also annual bonus and used to have share options
• Started near bottom of pay scale and it is a long way to the top. Annual increment is smaller than I would have received private (I worked in multi national where there were increments - not everyone gets one annually in private sector)
• 5 or 6 days more annual leave in civil service
• Flexi time / condensed working week / job share / option to work part time all available in civil service - not sure if i was there long enough to avail but I wouldnt have ever got that from other employers
• Option to apply for leave of abscences. Again wouldnt have got that
• Civil service was much more relaxed. Working hours respected. I didnt have to work to as many deadlines

Basically private get paid more but job flexibility / time off was much better in civil service.

SHOVELLER

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118927930#Comment_118927930

HR role is to help staff. I have seen this first hand in the private sector. Rising tides etc. It goes back to my point that HR units in the CS are not qualified to be there.

Agree with rest of your post.

SHOVELLER

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931845#Comment_118931845

Open competitions required a degree which not all COs have. Again that is discriminatory as their circumstances might dictate they were not able to pursue a degree. Plus I'm sure we have all met people with degrees and even MBAs who are dumb as a rock.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951857#Comment_118951857

I don't think you can call a requirement to have a degree discriminatory. Otherwise, you're basically saying that requiring qualifications is discriminatory.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951857#Comment_118951857

You don't need a degree for Executive Officer competitions. Basic Leaving Cert will do. Once you get the EO the HEO is easy enough to get to if you're any way competent and have a bit of ambition.

SECTION 1 (publicjobs.ie)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951857#Comment_118951857

Almost all public sector organisations will support staff to get qualifications, degrees or other professional qualifications.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951835#Comment_118951835

HR's primary role is to protect the employer. To believe anything else is incredibly naïve.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952062#Comment_118952062

But it is pointless because if a degree is an entryway to a promotion, but on promotion you won't be placed in a sector or doing work that uses the degree...then it was a waste of your time and CS/taxpayers money. You're doing a degree just for box ticking.

And this is fundamental to why I want to resign, and why I haven't pursued any promotion opportunities in a long time. I want to be able control the area I specialise in and I want to be able to use the degree and experience I have already gained.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951857#Comment_118951857

What tempted you to go back to Private?

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934523#Comment_118934523

The SS pension is useless, especially if you start below HEO, so the pension won't be keeping anyone there in a few years! But tbh I don't like the idea of living for the day I retire anyway, and I don't think it should be considered normal, but it is at the moment.

thiagos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930673#Comment_118930673

Ah what planet are ya on that 56 days over 4 years is very strict. Im a civil servant so not civil servant bashing haha.

fits

I lost my good pension when I left public service in 2012. On spss now and in one corner of public sector where job security is terrible. But the work is interesting and I think I’d hate to be staying in a role for the sake of a pension. Plenty of work out there at moment so f it.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925303#Comment_118925303

Sounds like you have had a positive experience but I notice that you did not have a pre-existing career going into the CS (correct me if I'm wrong). This means when you became a civil servant you did not have to sacrifice any expertise you might have built up (I assume) and you would naturally have wanted and needed to get insight into a variety of sectors. I think this puts you in a slightly different position from myself and anyone else with a couple of years under their belt, assuming their objective is to continue to build a career in a particular field.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952563#Comment_118952563

Educational supports can be manipulated. At least in public sector.

Some people only allowed inflexible course schedules that makes it difficult for them to take them up. Others allowed every flexibility to do courses of their choice. Limited places on courses or training budgets filled by the same few people all the time.

Then they filter new roles on these new qualifications that only a select few have gotten access to.

Classic one I saw was putting competencies that no one at that grade would have a hope to have, on the requirements. They had to roll back on that one, was funny to see.

Sometimes you can actually work out the person that will get a new role because the specification reads like a list of an identifiable persons recent training courses and projects.

Dunno if it's the same in CS never worked there. It also happens in the private sector but it's not as common.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953013#Comment_118953013

The planet where people at least attempt to read posts properly.

I didn't say "56 days over four years was very strict" in terms of sick leave (though it adds up when they include non-work days).

I said the 56 day limit is strictly applied when assessing a candidate's suitability for promotion.

Haha.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953274#Comment_118953274

If HR are manipulating that kind of stuff, yiz need to be getting your unions on the case pronto.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953274#Comment_118953274

I'm shocked they rolled back on any competencies when the competition was already in progress, that is flexibility I never thought I'd see.

I agree with everything you said re. extra study and add in the fact that courses etc. are a prerequisite to get promoted... but whatever you studied won't be used if you get the promotion because you'll be placed in an unrelated role!! It makes no sense.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934523#Comment_118934523

I thought that when someone resigns they then leave the older pension scheme for good. Never knew about the 6 month rule. But agree it should be more dynamic with greater movement between public and private sector.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953024#Comment_118953024

Although your old pension can't accrue more service, I think the service you have is still preserved - as long as you had more than 2 years' service when you resigned. You can then draw that old pension at your minimum retirement age which is probably 60 or 65. Then draw your single scheme pension as well at age 67 or whatever the age is. I don't think there is any way to combine service from a non single scheme pension with a single scheme one. I may be wrong about that.

Addle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951857#Comment_118951857

I don’t think a degree was an essential requirement for the last open AP comp.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953446#Comment_118953446

I don't think it was flexibility. They couldn't get anyone to fill the role. Again this wasn't CS.

I've seen similar in other campaigns, they over spec the role, then all the over qualified people who apply and do the interview, won't take up an offer. . Which leads to another campaign.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953426#Comment_118953426

The main union is only interested in self promotion and big issues. I think the decline in membership in many sectors reflects this.

thiagos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953344#Comment_118953344

Course its strictly applied FFS hahaha your allowed 55 sick days over 4 years. Jesus

Butterfly182

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953045#Comment_118953045

Yeah,

I worked part time as a library assistant for several months and worked in retail for 2.5 years before leaving for the CS full time.

So, I didn't have a wealth of private sector experience etc so you wouldn't be wrong in saying my experience wouldn't be the same as others just my two cents that for me swapping night shifts for minium wage and no job security for the CS was the right move for me.