Looking for best current practice advice for central heating system controls

Roger the cabin boy

Hello all.

My house is a large Semi D with Gas boiler and a S+plan (3 zone)

I've upgraded (read: fixed the builders bodges) the system over the years to trvs, digital thermostats, 3way timer control, but I'm looking to modernize it as i am un the process of servicing it.

I've double lagged the vented tank, installed a modern self regulating HW circulator (pump) and have service the boiler (as best i can).

I don't want to replace the boiler really, its ok (not great, not terrible) but I've my eye on Bringing up the controls and thermostats to modern standards.

Any suggestions?

Im thinking WiFi TRVs, WIFI immersion control (for boost only, i use the boiler normally), external temp compensation, and perhaps having the ability to tie it all in with a person assistant (i have google home).

Is it worth it? Or will i be just changing for no pay back?

I'd like to have the rooms be controllable overall but have the option for individual preferences.

I'm also wary of "over controlling" so that it gets so complex nobody has a ball idea how it works.

Would appreciate any pointers.

Thanks

Bawnmore

I'm not sure about if it's the absolute best way to do it or not, but we did all of this recently and are very happy with the result. We went for the Drayton Wiser system and added smart TRV's to all radiators with the exception of the bathroom radiator which is open permanently. I have no idea how much we'd be saving really, but the outcomes we like the most are:

• Every room is the right temperature at the right time. E.g. bedrooms heat up in the morning and night when we're waking/going to bed and then stay at a lower temperature throughout the day when nobodies using them. Office heats up from 9 to 5, Monday to Friday only. Sitting room heats up a little more in the late evening when everyones sitting down.
• We've a fire in the sitting room that we like to light in the evening and the having smart thermostat in the room will mean that the radiator isn't calling for heat when the fire is on and the room is hot enough.
• My wife doesn't really give a shite how it works, as she knows she can warm up/cool down a room if she needs to (she never needs to) by twisting the thermostat in the room she's in.
• Everything can be boosted together or individually in the app.
• Probably the best of all is that we don't think about it at all really - it stays the same in summer and winter and the house is always at a comfortable temperature without having to think about it at all.

Any specific question, let me know and I can at least give you my opinion!

Roger the cabin boy

Thanks for the excellent reply. Your usage pattern is almost identical to mine so its a good fit for me to reference too.

I'm looking at the various systems and the Wiser does look like its very well designed.

Paulzx

Another vote here for the Drayton Wiser system. Simple enough to be able to use it without needing a year long course but has enough features to provide plenty of control all over the house.

I started with the Hub and 2 Wireless Room Thermostats to see how it worked and did i like it. I then moved onto Smart TRV's on each rad. This sort of negates the need for the Room Thermostats as the Rad TRV's override the Room Thermostat when fitted.

Think about what configuration and features you want before you purchase

Ethereal Cereal

You can get a thermostat free if you switch providers, then pair it to your SmartTRV's.

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/climote-vs-hive-vs-nest-vs-netatmo-how-do-they-compare/

theres a little bit to setting it up though. I'm looking at the Nest deal myself

sonyvision

Just a question for the two users who use a Drayton system. I have it in my current house just room stats only.

I am moving next month to a different house and it only has 2 zone system. Hot Water and rads. Instead of going through the costly effort of zoning upstairs and down stairs I was just going to go with Drayton system again and just buy all smart TRV's for the rooms.

Regarding the usage, does the Smart values stay in the off position until the set program is turned on or until each room is boosted?. If one TRV is turned on can that alone call for heat switching on the boiler?

Interested to hear your thoughts and thanks in advance.

Bawnmore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118199451#Comment_118199451

Yep, that'd work perfectly. You set each rad on a schedule and if only one rad is currently active, then that rad will call for heat on it's own. It's advised to always have at least one radiator fully open all of the time (our bathroom) which means if, for arguments sake, my office is heating up then my bathroom is also heating up as that's our fully open rad.

For us, that means the bedrooms come up to temp in the morning before the hall/sitting room/kitchen and then my office much later. The one thing it does mean is that it's worth keeping doors closed to rooms to make sure you're getting the most benefit out of it but it's a habit that's picked up pretty quickly.

Paulzx

I have the same set up as Bawnmore insofar as my bathrooms have no TRV's fitted so once 1 of the Smart TRV's calls for heat the bathroom ( in the same zone) always heats with it.

You should have no problem setting up with just TRV's but be mindfull that any Rad without a smart TRV will heat automatically when heat is called for in that zone.

There also might be a limit on the amount of TRV's that can be added to a single zone but i don't think thats an issue unless you live in a mansion. I originally only had the Wiser Room Stats to see if i was happy with the system and I'm delighted with the Smart TRV's since i fitted them. It gives you excellent control over each room in the house

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204699#Comment_118204699

I think the "one radiator on all the time" rule of thumb harks back to older times where bypass valves were not a thing and boiler overuns were.

For modern, properly designed systems (a rare thing), that advice is no longer applicable.

I'll be installing a set-flow bypass valve (Taco) as part of the system upgrade as my new pump has active monitoring and doesn't work well with the old ABV currently installed.

With regards to my OP. I've took the advice in this thread and gone all-in with the Drayton system.

I'm yet to install it though and WIFI range is something I'm wondering about. Does a normal Semi D need the Drayton smart plugs to extend the range?

Bawnmore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218809#Comment_118218809

I could be completely wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the requirement for 1 radiator open in our case was from SEAI (we got a grant for smart controls etc.). They also required the bypass valve as the plumber had to come back and fit it after the initial installation.

Good stuff on the Drayton - hope it works out well for you. I can't help you on the last question (we've a small bungalow), but I'd be surprised if you needed them.

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118221415#Comment_118221415

I've no doubt the SEAI dictate stuff of which they haven't a clue about.

I had a EV Charger installed under the grant scheme and when i eventually get round to putting up PV panels, I'll get the electrician to rewire the ev supply correctly for my house and not for the worst-case generic cut-paste solutions the SEAI insist on.

Paulzx

I've had no issues with the TRV's connecting to the hub. Have a 4 bed semi with a rear extension and there is no problems. A bigger house might need the extenders

Roger the cabin boy

As an update:

Drayton wiser system ordered and installed in no small part to the good feedback from here.

No probs with range even though i have a dozen radiators spread over a 4Bed semi.

I like it so far. It has a good balance of options vs not being overly complex.

magicbastarder

mind me asking how much it cost you? was suggesting to my parents and my parents in law that they should get something.

we have the honeywell system (jammy bastard that i am, we got it free as part of a customer research program from electric ireland) and i'm very happy with it.

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249407#Comment_118249407

700€ for 3 Zone kit and 11rad valves. (Amazon).

I had to rewire the wiring from the old Horstman 3 zone controller and i removed the redundant wiring from the old thermostats myself (might take an electrician an hour if you need one). Easy enough though.