Question about Options to get a new EV with minimum 350km even in winter at motorway speeds?

Pivot Eoin

The new long Range MG ZS due in 2022 cuold be an option. Think it will start at about €31/32k Including Grants, 440KM WLTP Range.

PaulRyan97

A Kia Niro PHEV might be worth looking at to replace both cars. You should be able to find a 2018/19 for under 30k.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216547/question-about-options-to-get-a-new-ev-with-minimum-350km-even-in-winter-at-motorway-speeds

Is there any possibility of upgrading the 'destination' electrics to even take the granny charger safely? It seems the cheaper option compared to buying a new car.

Lantus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121887#Comment_118121887

I'd say it will get close. We are close to the tipping point of EVs going mainstream. Tesla and the 30 or so Chinese ev manufacturers are about to go to business worldwide with 3rd gen well developed ev products. At the same time eu emissions will all but stop most ice engines and the ones that get through eu7 in 2025 will be several thousand more expensive. This will negate many smaller cars simply uneconomic to sell. The effect of the 2030 ban on top will cause many buyers to just wait and save for an ev which will punish ice sales further.

A lot of legacy car makers are already late to the party and Europe's heyday as a car builder is all but over as they struggle to switch to ev against falling sales and revenue and massive competition from china and tesla.

Come 2027 I'd say 70 to 80pc of all cars sold will be ev. The proliferation of smaller and different types of car will push sales far beyond numbers. It's an interesting time for the industry.

NIMAN

Well I'm only going on discussions with work colleagues.

EVs have come up in conversation over this last week with many of the folk I work with, what with COP26 etc being on the news.

A couple have changed to self charging hybrids, but most have said they aren't planning to change to an ev any time soon. If say if they ever do, it'll be a hybrid too.

elperello

If they are going for running just one car I think a PHEV would be the answer.

If they intend to keep two cars they might be better to stay as they are.

If the diesel is getting on in years it may be eligible for a scrappage scheme if one comes in a few years.

kanuseeme

Had much the same conversation and its diesel all the way, no interest in hybrids of any sort, one guy even mentioned green diesel to avoid fuel increases, in my own family 2 phevs and 1 ID4 coming January.

Orebro

Agree with the poster above, if it will remain a two car household then stay as they are is the best thing to do in this scenario.

Lantus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127883#Comment_118127883

Any time soon could be 1 to 2 years just. And we will all change to what the market provides. Nothing else.

Type 17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126702#Comment_118126702

It's a good thought - we're hoping to move house soon to a place a few counties away, and will be visiting relatives back in the homestead, so we plan to pay for their house to get a 16a connector and suitable wiring, and the same (or maybe 3-phase) at our new house.

If it all works out, we'll be buying one of these portable chargers, which can do everything from 1.4kw - 22kw and with any connector required, and taking it with us when we travel. No need for a fixed charger at home (although this one has a bracket for wall-mounting).

https://www.juice-store.com/eu/juice-booster/juice-booster-2/48/uk-traveller-set?c=395

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131951#Comment_118131951

Just beware with that set up there is a few catches.

16amp is half the normal 32amp home charge point rate, thus doubling your charge time.

In terms of wiring it would be much the same to get a 32 amp large blue socket.

With either set up you have no load sensing so if they have a 7kW or 9kW instant shower and say the oven on and immersion heater there is a risk of blowing main esb fuse. Not a safety issue as such, but it means all power off until ESB arrives and they may require electrian sign off before they agree to reconnect.

With this set up you can also accidentally disconnect the blue plug while charging is happening. This cannot happen with a proper charge point where the plug is locked in. If car is drawing 32amp, which it can and will do for hours, that's a lot of wear and tear for the blue plug and socket and if it's not used much and a but rusty you may have a bad connection sooner than a few years, risking overheating. Normally granny charging cables have an overheat sensor in the plug to detect work plug and house sockets. If plug gets hot charging stops or slows before plug overheats. That protection is not in place with blue socket.

You may require extension leads in many real world cases, extension leads don't have temperature sensing at house plug end.

If routinely or regularly charging use a proper charge point, if you must save money maybe buy a second hand one, bit it's something that adds to a houses value, and could be used for 20+ years.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126702#Comment_118126702

That wouldnt work at all. They litterally arrive down. Have a cup of tea. Take her out to the shops and to visit a couple of her friends.

Drop her back and pack the shopping away and then get back on the road home.

They have no need at all for a second car at this stage apart from needing it for long journeys.

We were talking about the options over the weekend and I think they are going to sell the EV and the diesel and go for a phev.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134992#Comment_118134992

Fair enough, if the phev has enough battery range to cover the 'normal' weekday driving that's a fair option.

What is the diesel/what sort of money is it worth? Just to give total budget?

Dazler97

My friend has a electric car and he had to get a new battery is €14,000 as my friend had to get a new one after his car broke down

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137023#Comment_118137023

Not sure what that has to do with the issue at hand here but OK......

OP: A PHEV will remove the whole having to charge issue that might occur on the long 350km trip as they would be starting out with 40 - 60km range on battery in the vehicle and the remainder of the trip will be on petrol (most PHEVs are petrol). For pottering around local distances, a PHEV would suit as well as it can be used during the day, within the battery range and then at night it can be charged at home. The petrol in the tank will then most likely only be used on the long journey.

I picked up a PHEV earlier this year (2019 Ioniq) for €17500 but prices have gone up since. €20k or thereabouts should see you in a reasonable second-hand PHEV.

Dazler97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137236#Comment_118137236

There's a new electric car that goes 500 miles per charge I seen it on the TV yesterday

kanuseeme

The 500 mile batteries cost way more and only last half as long.

kanuseeme

Whats the OP's budget? If its 50000 I would say an ID4 if less, a phev, but 2nd hand cars have gone up. Might be some value in selling 2 cars and buying 1 with the running costs of only 1 car.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216547/question-about-options-to-get-a-new-ev-with-minimum-350km-even-in-winter-at-motorway-speeds

Have a look at abetterrouteplanner website or app, you can change the car, weather etc and it'll plan that route for you. If it's on a main motorway there are loads of fast charging options now and one 15-20 min stop should do that trip in a ~50kwh battery car. Will give you an idea of how suitable the various options are anyway.

Model 3 just got a bigger 60kwh battery in the cheapest version, if there's Superchargers on their route would be very easy and fast.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144375#Comment_118144375

There is one fast chargers on their route. exactly half way. So they have to visit it both on the way there and on the way back

Last couple of times they had to spend over an hour on the way there and over an hour on the way home. Another couple of times it was out of order so they had to take a detour to another charger. Same on the way back. Thats just not feasible for a 1 hour 30 minute drive. There is another fast charger if they travel about 30km out of their way too, but thats a big detour.

Also they go on different trips too, so its not always the same one. One time they arrived at my aunts house. Took her out somewhere for the day. But the day was spent driving to a fast charger. Sitting in the coffee shop in the garage for nearly an hour waiting for the previous car to finish and then to charge their own car. Then back to the aunts house and home, charge on the way home too. Some day out :)

Model 3 is just too expensive. I think the chances of superchargers being on any route are pretty slim :)

We are looking at phevs at the weekend.

Type 17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134244#Comment_118134244

Indeed, I wouldn't be making it up as I went along - I have a friend who is a qualified electrician to consult with & get a correctly-specced install done, so any completed solution would be safe enough. Luckily there are no electric showers in the relatives house, but I will be discussing load-sharing, etc.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126655#Comment_118126655

I'll sell you my 191 for 30k no probs 😂

daheff

Seriously though, you should do some maths on this.

How many kilometers are driven a year/month? What's the cost for diesel to do this? What does that equate to over 3 years?

Then work out how much it is to do the same in an EV. Overestimate diesel cost vs electric too(worst case scenario) incase your estimates were off.

If that difference is close to the price difference between a new diesel vs a new ev then to me it's a no brainer to get the ev.

Of you can't afford the larger outlay at the start then look at buying with some form or loan. The costs savings will help pay for the loan each month.

JimmyVik

A friend of mine has worked out all that cost. He is a bit of a spreadsheet nut.

Hes got spreadsheets for everything in his life.

He has an energy monitor on his car charger. And he logs all in kms in both the EV and his ICE in an app too.

He reckons his EV saves him 7.5c per km.

He comes up with

1.5c/km vs 9c/km.

So from that i guess in fuel costs you save about €750 per year if you drive 10km.

Now that not entirely accurate because I know my diesel costs €200 a year to tax. And also an average of about €400 per year on servicing.

Our Leaf costs only €120 tax and €200 on servicing per year (apart from last year it cost €1200).

So there is a saving on the EV there. Also when charging an ev there is loss while charging. Plus when you charge outside the home or off the night rate your cost per km is going to go up too. But I think he only ever charges at home and on the night meter anyway.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159741#Comment_118159741

Whats the point of doing this analysis if you can't get a car that will do winter motorway 350km?

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172141#Comment_118172141

Well if the figures work out then maybe can afford to buy a car with a big battery that will do the 350km winter motorway?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216547/question-about-options-to-get-a-new-ev-with-minimum-350km-even-in-winter-at-motorway-speeds

What's the total budget ? estimate trade in for 2 cars if they want to go to 1 car ?

Yearly mileage, how frequent are long trips of 350+ kms ?

I would say the ID3 Tour ( 4 seater ) and tour 5 ( 5 seater ) should do this and in my opinion should be the minimum battery size "77 Kwh available" that one should choose "in my opinion" if the objection is to be an ICE replacement and 1 car. It certainly means easier life when doing long trips meaning less time waiting around at chargers or in queues.

Judging by my consumption which since last Thursday has been mainly trips 20 kms or less is 19 Kwh/100 km with no preheating off the mains what-so-ever is not bad though it's not been cold really yet. But judging by this consumption 19 Kwh/100 km divide 19 into 100 and you get 5.26 Kms per Kwh or 405 Kms give or take for full charge but bear in mind you won't get to a charger mostly with empty battery which is why I say 350 Kms should be easy with 77 Kwh battery.

Now what I don't know is whether all this preheating off the mains before I get into the car is calculated into this 19 Kwh/100 km since last charge, I doubt it so consumption could be higher. But this is for lots of short trips which will use more energy.

On a long trip especially with preheating off the mains I think the id3 tour and tour 5 should do 350 Kms easily with plenty to spare. With slower driving I think it could do 450 Kms and more especially in warmer weather. Not tested yet though. But I notice just like the BMW i3 that short trips are harder on energy consumption with all the preheating off the mains so when driving on one long trip preheated should definitely do 350 kms no bother on the motorway but bear in mind if you can get to a 150 Kw fast charger and if it provides full power you should be able to do 650 Kms in the 77 Kwh id3 easily with a 30 min charge but sadly 150 Kw chargers are few and far between but they could be on frequent routes taken by your Parents.

Now here's the problem, it's going to be hard to get this kind of range for under 40K Euro's.

If your Parents need the range of 350 Kms then under 30K then there's no point thinking yet about ev and if their yearly mileage is low then they might be far better off with cheap petrol automatic.

I'm a high mileage driver and for me the long range id3 makes perfect sense and with mostly free work charging over 3800 Kms since I got the id3 I think I spend 10 Euro's or less on electricity to cover this distance, the difference this range has made to me coming from 28 Kwh EV is incredible.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173670#Comment_118173670

Yes they are going to go to 1 car and it will be a second hand phev.

They will sell the diesel privately. Its probably worth about €3k. And will see what they can get for trade in for the leaf against the phev.

[Deleted User]

Is the PHEV worth it ? Would they be better off with cheaper Petrol until a longer range ev comes along at a decent price 2nd hand ?

What PHEV have they in mind ?

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173670#Comment_118173670

I looked at this type of use case as mine is not too far off- I have a 320km trip each way every other week and want to be able to do it without having to stop to charge and I was getting conflicting information - maybe you can confirm:

If your getting say 19KwH /100km now - and its say 10c outside now, what would you expect this to increase to at say 1c outside for motorway driving at an actual 120kmph? I'm guessing 22 KwH / 100 km which would give a range of 350km exactly. I saw one guy on YouTube 'Battery Life' only get 26.7 Kwh/100 km in an ID3 driving at 130kmph and -2.5c. At that consumption it would only have maximum 288km range but that's a little faster / colder than we should see here.

I'm fairly relaxed but would want a bit of range in the tank pulling into my driveway- i.e. just in case something goes wrong, have to take a diversion or bad winds etc - presumably most drivers don't plan to bring it below 10%? If so that drops the range to 315km

Is it okay to charge these cars to 100% weekly? I heard from a dealer they recommend only charging to 80% and that charging to 100% weekly might impact the battery - was he correct? I.e. is it better practice to charge to 80% and work your range off that? In that case using the 22 KwH / 100 Km then that's only 280km range and not wanting to drop below 10% brings it to 252km.

If you were thinking of keeping the car say 5 years / 120,000km, should you be prepared for range reduction during this time period? Would it be reasonable to plan that it could drop by 10% after 3 years? If so that would drop the range to theoretical 315km and the range above taking 80% max and 10% min, down to 230km.