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Acceptable Covid death rates



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    Do you have any sources to cite for your claim that hand washing "helps not at all with covid"?

    (Apart from a post on facebook)

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭ skimpydoo

    So when medical professionals agree with me, are they lying?

    I have been told by the haematologist treating me that I must continue shielding.

    Why do you think that is?

    Is it because having a very weak immune system means I won't be hospitalised?

    No it's because Covid will kill me if I get it.

    Please stop talking Bullshit and admit you are wrong.

    You have no idea what I am going through so how can you claim I am lying.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,005 ✭✭✭ riclad

    Hopefully everyone who can safely do so will get vaxxed they will need a booster shot too I understand not everyone can get vaccinated for medical reasons maybe some people will have to stay at home or away from shops or keep social distancing for along time to come eg older people with underlying medical conditions

    The government has no choice but to loosen restrictions open up pubs theatres etc in order to keep the economy going

  • Registered Users Posts: 34,856 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    Anybody saying that there's an acceptable level of covid deaths should be shot. I wonder how they'd feel about that with their life being taken?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx

    Everything he posts is pure unadulterated BS.

    The consistency is awesome, for quite a while, I thought it was Aongus von Bizmark performance comedy

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,318 ✭✭✭✭ seamus

    Everything is preventable in hindsight. What happened in nursing homes is multifactoral, and isn't something that only occurred in Ireland. It's not as simple as "If they hadn't done X, nursing homes would have been safe". Nursing homes across the western world were ravaged by this. Because nursing homes for various reasons are a hotbed when it comes to diseases. Residents to staff to residents to staff, it's a close and intimate environment, moreso even than hospitals.

    In Spain, some nursing homes suffered staff shortages so drastic that patients were left to fend for themselves and corpses were left in their beds.

    When the call came in on 12th March 2020 to shut down all public offices and schools, as part of that was activated a massive lockdown process across the hospitals within the country. Every hospital in the country was directed to discharge as many patients as humanly possible. Anyone who didn't absolutely need to be in a hospital and wasn't symptomatic, was discharged. Where someone might spend a week in hospital following major surgery, they were out after 3 days once they were stable. For personal reasons I happened to be in hospitals that day, I witnessed this play out in real time. The A & E in the Mater hospital was empty. Empty corridors, spare beds, no visitors hanging around.

    The question of what to do with older people is always hard. They are by nature more frail and at risk when you move them, but the decision was made that the lesser of two evils was to send them to their nursing homes where they can receive appropriate care, rather than keep them in hospital and risk contracting covid. Patients who were not symptomatic and did not have a positive test for covid, were discharged to their nursing homes.

    No doubt some of these brought covid back. Did they all? Of course not. Was the right call made to shift vulnerable people out of hospitals? I think so, based on what we knew about covid at the time. Knowing what we know now, those patients should have gone into a two-week isolation period when transferred back. But that may not even be practical.

    Even if those patients hadn't been moved, covid would still have gotten into nursing homes. Via staff, and visitors. And it would still have ravaged them. When you have a highly contagious virus that is very dangerous to very frail people and you gather all your very frail people together in a single place, it is inevitable that those places are going to be hit hard.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    There have been no reported cases of surface contact transmission. It’s an airborne illness.

    people should obviously wash their hands properly but if anything thinks it will help with the covid problem they’re wrong. Likewise, mandating masks on public transport will help but it certainly won’t be the difference between someone having to shield or not.

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  • There are some truly disgusting creatures claiming to be human beings on this thread and in society.

    Words fail me.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    Nonsense. What about countries that never shut down? The didn't have a "ridiculous number" of deaths. Look at the countries that are open now, with no restrictions, no masks, and no high hospitalisations or deaths. Lockdowns aren't "rules". I won't be replying again.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭ brainboru1104

    So, I've learned in this thread that you're not allowed to compare covid to anything else because that's not fair.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    The chances of catching Covid outdoors is pretty miniscule. Queueing outdoors is probably grand. I haven't heard of any outbreaks from 50,000 odd at every PL game for the past few months. Pretty silly thing to be worked up against.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly

    This thread is actually fascinating. The argument is quite nuanced and has me thinking. I suggest you read the first 2 pages before taking a polarised view which is all too easy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Unless you have isolated yourself in a cabin in the woods, foraging and hunting for all of your supplies and refraining from coming into contact with a single human being then you have already accepted a certain level of risk of death from Covid.

    The question is not, in reality, whether there is an acceptable level of risk, it is where the level should be.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    And still with those restrictions around 130 people a year die. So should the speed limit be lowered even more? Absolutely no alcohol allowed? I mean if we are going for 0 deaths.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    They frequently do lower speed limits when stretches of road are shown to be dangerous. They also reduced allowed blood alcohol limits over time too.

    I didn't see anything on this thread where someone suggested there should be full isolation for everything and everyone - just that people should follow existing regulations and procedures as they stand. There might have been one or two that expressed a preference for nightclubs being closed, but that was again in the context of images of flagrant breaches of current guidelines

    You know you have lost an argument when, in order to try to rebut it to any extent, you have to try to change it to an absurd version that nobody ever stated. Look, I can do it too "Should we ignore covid and just refuse medical treatment to anyone who catches it? Absolutely no restrictions and no public expenditure allowed? I mean if we are going for the protection of civil liberties for everyone else"

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    I didn't see anything on this thread where someone suggested there should be full isolation for everything and everyone - just that people should follow existing regulations and procedures as they stand.

    Then we are indeed acknowledging an acceptable/tolerable level of Covid death exists. Because the current restrictions are nowhere near enough to stop significant spread.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    The OP is literally giving out about people standing in a queue outdoors.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    Yes. Literally in violation of current restrictions and public health procedures.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    You should have your findings published as soon as possible. A quick google search shows plenty of papers in peer-reviewed publications and journals focusing the importance and effectiveness of handwashing in the prevention of Covid. I can't find one that states it has little or no effect. I did ask you to cite a reference but you didn't give you.

    Who would have thought it? All those eejits who study and research this for a living were wrong and some poster on an internet message board was able to figure out they were all wrong

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    You can't violate advice. There are no restrictions for standing on a footpath. We've public health advice to maintain 2m but no actual law or restriction.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,471 ✭✭✭ timmyntc

    guidelines that have no impact on the spread of the virus.

    There is no evidence that outdoor transmission is a significant driver of virus spread in the community - its equivalent to a 30km speed limit on a dual carriageway. Are people who exceed that putting lives at risk? I dont think so

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    No. There are restrictions for how establishments manage their patrons, including how they get them in the door.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump

    Feel free to present your medical qualifications given that you are contradicting prevailing medical advice. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some quack somewhere with Dr in their name that spouts some crap on youtube but, in the alternative that you are not qualified yourself, if you have any peer reviewed sources, please pass them on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭ brainboru1104

    "The question is not, in reality, whether there is an acceptable level of risk, it is where the level should be."

    Careful, Donald Trump might accuse you of trying to sound clever.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    apologies, not non-existent just rare. There has been plenty of criticism of e.g. U.K. govt guidance focusing on hand washing for far too long when they should have been focusing on ventilation.

    becuase being outdoors is fairly safe.