Time to go Electric

Wynnie12

Hi,

I drive a total of 400km a day to/from work 3-5 days a week. This is all motorway driving. Currently drive 2ltr diesel which will get me 1200km full tank (60 ltr) which I think is pretty. Diesel is costing me approx 600-800 euro a month.

Basically looking for advice on EV that could manage this amount of mileage or should I just stick with diesel?

Thanks in advance

Buddy Bubs

Don't think there's an electric out there for you yet at motorway speeds. And no way would I add a stop to charge on top of your commute.

That's a huge amount of commuting I'd be looking into other options rather than type of car I drive.

graememk

For that sort of range your gonna be looking at the biggest battery you can get.

Likes of the id3 tour/id4/enyac 80/m3 LR

Was doing some motorway driving y'day in my niro and before I came off it,(rainy/cold conditions) car was reporting 21.8kwh/100km - was sitting at 120 the whole time.

If there is charging at work, your sorted.

If not, would you normally stop at any time? What is your route as then a quick charging stop (ideally on the way home) would be needed in the winter, you'll prob get away with it in the summer (or slow to 100) if you can provide a rough route, we could point out possible put stops.

Cost wise, I ran rough numbers the other day. At 5l/100km on diesel is about 7-8c a km

I'm on Energia's ev rate, 20c day, 5.8c night, so charging on night rate it's costing me about 1-2c/km

So that fuel cost could be reduced a lot, - but if you have to fast charge, that will eat into the savings.

ozmo

>That's a huge amount of commuting I'd be looking into other options rather than type of car I drive.

yes - this. For lots of reasons.

PaulRyan97

There are definitely mainstream EV's that are capable of this, though you'd want some ability to charge at work as 400km at motorway speeds will be far too close to comfort even for cars rated at 500km+.

However it does seem like you are doing an utterly excessive commute. Do you mind me asking what it is you do?

ted1

200km each way ?

are you at the office for 7-8 hours? If there is a charger there. Well then your options open right up.

listermint

400km for work. Nope. Bigger long term issues there than diesel prices. That's not a sustainable commute.

graememk

I know people are commenting on the commute, it's brutal. But that's not the question at hand.

Maybe it's a case where Tesla's self driving would be beneficial!

Wynnie12

I agree it's a crazy commute but for numerous reasons I don't see it changing for the foreseeable future.

My route is M2 M50 M7 M9. Halfway is Carlow service station but ideally I would like an EV that would not require me to stop daily.

Was really only testing the water here, sounds like I should stick with my diesel, €800 fuel bill a month.

Appreciate the responses 👍

Fitz II

Can you charge in work?

Wynnie12

Unfortunately no I can't charge at work.

PaulRyan97

A PHEV with decent range could bring your fuel costs down some bit, at 5l/100km there's very few remaining diesels that can do better.

If you had a PHEV with 60km range+ you'd probably average out somewhere around 4l/100km average. Some of Mercedes new Diesel PHEVs are supposed to be very economical for motorway driving.

Without charging available at work the EV you're looking for would want ~550km WLTP range I would guess for a guaranteed 400km@120km/h. Gives you very few options, Tesla Model S + X would do it I guess. Maybe the Model 3 LR. ID.4 would probably get you close, maybe the Extended Range Mustang Mach E.

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033403#Comment_118033403

Well with that commute they should install a charger for you, that would make an EV workable. I think I didnt spend 800 euro in the year with insurance, tax and electricity last year in a model 3. 8800 a year in fuel and then tax, insurance and service....that must be an alluring job to spend that money and 4 hours a days commuting...

graememk

Hmm, actually look at the Ford mustang Mach e (the one with the big battery). That has a 88kwh battery. And a rated range of 610km. Up to you if the sums work for it.

The ionity (although relatively expensive) at kill could be a pitstop, if ever caught a bit short. But they are high powered and multiple stalls.

The website abetterrouteplanner can be used put your home, to work and then home and it will estimate if you would have to charge or not.

New cars have more driver assists (maybe you already have them) adaptive cruise control, lane keep that can keep the drive less tiring.

There is also reduced tolls with EVs.

the_amazing_raisin

I've an ID.4 with the 77kWh battery, it can make it from Dublin to Waterford on a summers day without a recharge, which is around 400km total, mostly motorway

So there are cars out there which will do the job. In winter you'll likely need a recharge. Depending on your route, this can vary from reasonably well serviced to non existent. I'd say at 10-15 mins charge would be enough even in winter. Enough time for a bathroom break and to grab a coffee

As others said, if you can get a work charger then you'll be sorted, no need for midpoint charges. Or if there's a public AC charger nearby you can use that

If there's Tesla superchargers en route then I'd seriously consider a Tesla Model 3 long range. They have the best charging network, hands down. If I was regularly needing fast charging then that's the only brand I'd consider

Also, I'd highly recommend getting a car with some sort of lane following system, as well as adaptive cruise control. They have different names for it, Tesla call it autopilot, VW call it Travel assist, etc. It seriously makes the motorway driving a lot easier

PaulRyan97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033585#Comment_118033585

It sounds like he is driving from north Dublin to Waterford based on the route description he gave. No superchargers on that route as far as I'm aware. Though if you can do it in an ID.4 then a Model 3 Long Range might be able to do it in Winter without recharging.

fits

The ID.3 tour is more efficient than any of the other 77 kWh battery VAG cars. My GOM is 440 km with a lot of motorway driving. It would be very close for comfort. But if you could make it work you’d save a packet. Even a granny charge at work might get you a bit of buffer.

80sDiesel

Guessing it could be done comfortably in an EQS but that comes with its own cost…

Lantus

For 400km motorway you are still waiting on a bigger battery I think. You will need near to 650km range to achieve your commute.

But your savings would be amazing bar the purchase of a likely 60k plus new car....

AndyBoBandy

OP, even if your employer would let you pay for and install a charger at work, it would pay for itself in no time……

with any of the current cars on the market, to make 400km motorway everyday, you’d nearly be charging to 100% every night, and draining to almost 0% by the time you got home and that’s not ideal for any EV battery.

Much better proposition would be only charging to 80% each night, driving to work, and charging back up from around 30% to 80% again to get you home.

Gumbo

Without the work charger, it’s a non runner.

no point buttering it up in any other way.

your an extreme case for an EV.

work place charging means you could swap easily and not have a worry in the world about charging.

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033698#Comment_118033698

If he went N11 and out Arklow way and in by new ross there is an ionity in arklow....expensive mind you. Have to agree that without workplace charging this is not a runner.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035347#Comment_118035347

Or just use the Ionity's on the N7 at Kill

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035372#Comment_118035372

True dat...how reliable are the ionitys these days only used one once and it was fine, but I see some youtube road trips that are a horror....would have thought they were better sorted now.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035423#Comment_118035423

Never needed to use them myself so far..... though every time I drive past the Kill ones I've never seen any of them used...

but in the OP's case, if he needed to use Ionity daily, he'd be better off sticking to the diesel, unless he signed up to one of their subscription deals..

Lantus

This assumes the op drives at an ev friendly 115km/h or abouts. Based on my trips up and down major motorways at weekend you would think fuel was dropping in price the speeds people were going. Most cars were happy out in the 130 to 150 range. A few much quicker. I was the anomaly at 117! Clearly fuel is still too cheap?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033374#Comment_118033374

Well, it depends on your perspective somewhat

Let's say owning an EV added 15 mins to your commute every day. That's pretty worst case since half the year you won't need to recharge en route, and you might not need 15 mins of charging

Over a month that works out as 5 extra hours, assuming 20 workdays a month

Compared to diesel, you should save around 600-700 a month. Even more if you can get free work charging

So those 5 hours extra will save you 600 euro. As a general rule, a money saving idea is only good if it works out better than your current salary. Unless you're very highly paid (if so, by a Tesla model S) then you will end up better off financially

Of course, the trade off is potentially making an already long commute longer. It isn't an easy trade off, so it's well worth exploring all the options like getting a work charger, seeing what chargers are along the route and getting an idea of what car you might like

Anyway, I wouldn't give up just yet. Yes, you're an extreme case, but there are others with similarly long commutes who have gone electric and enjoyed the experience

pdpmur

Ignoring the small matter of range for a moment, if you can only charge at home then there's also the issue of the charging period required nightly.

For a 400km daily drive then, for a home charging rate of 7.3kW, the nightly charging period required will probably be at least 10 hours. So if you leave home in the morning at say 7am then the car will need to be plugged-in and charging continuously from 9pm the night before.

Also, the car battery will be close to fully charged/discharged every work day, which will cause the car battery to degrade faster and at that annual mileage you will run out of battery warranty in less than 2 years from new.

fits

I did 250 km today and I’m cream crackered. That’s some commute you have. I’d rent a room!

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037942#Comment_118037942

Yes once a month I drive from Dublin to 1 or 2 of Limerick, Cork and antrim for work and I am glad I don't do it more often. Its part of my work day though not a commute. It's tough. Comfortable car a must. Good podcasts too. Fair play to OP but the depreciation of commuting somewhere in the region of 60 to 100 thousand kms a year, let's call it 80 thousand, will be as big an issue as fuel costs. If you're still doing it in a couple of years OP there might be an option for you, but it will be expensive purchase.

Wynnie12

Unfortunately charging at work will not be an option anytime soon. With current fuel prices and approx 70000km commute a year I'm now looking at a diesel cost of €6000+ a year. If I include service, tolls...etc the car is costing me approx 10k to run a year.

So let's say I purchase an EV for €60,000 for a range that can handle a commute of 400km motorway driving. How much of a savings can realistically expect a year when you consider home charging at night, service, tolls...etc?

What would concern me is the depreciation on an EV. I would think that as the technology improves the older EV's would not hold their value so well.

How soon would I have to change a battery with this sort of mileage?

SlitDrip

You don't buy a 60k car to save money.

Electric is not for you ,

Lantus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040069#Comment_118040069

The exception being if your normal car spend budget is around that price anyway. Or your ownership period will be long enough versus your fuel costs to offset in a reasonable period. The latter is a more debatable issue...

pdpmur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040040#Comment_118040040

Battery cycle life is quite dependent on battery type (and who you believe), - it could be anything from 500 cycles (lithium ion) 5000 cycles (LPE) or 50000 cycles (Tesla latest marketing guff). In the next few years its likely that battery life will drop away as an issue. More important to you for your amount of driving is battery warranty and out-of-warranty repairs. If you don't want to be driving a car out of battery warranty then you will probably have to replace your car every two to three years and take the depreciation hit, but otherwise your car could quite possibly keep trucking on happily until it's just worn out normally.

Nightly charging costs: Say 10 hours needed nightly. Seven hours at 7.3kW at 14c/kWh (night saver) and 3 hours at 7.3kW at 18c/kWh = €1.52 per night or €365 for a year (48 weeks at 5 nights per week), so a big saving even if electricity prices rise quite a bit in the near future. You could save €5k a year on fuel costs or €15k over three years which would cover a big chunk of the depreciation hit on a car in the €40k range, say.

Servicing costs - these are car-dependent - but at your annual mileage I would budget for a similar cost to your current car.

Tolls - https://www.irishevowners.ie/useful-info/reduced-toll-fares-for-electric-vehicles/

Once a suitable car with the necessary range comes on the market then it will probably be worth it, but your car needs to be reliable first and foremost so I would choose carefully (and possibly even avoid a brand new car release on the market as these almost always have niggles or even bigger problems).

SlitDrip

Something not right with those electricity figures.

pjdarcy

With that commute and no charging in work, electric isn't a realistic option for you yet unfortunately OP. The only compromise at this point would be a plug-in hybrid.

Also, as others have suggested, you should really try to find a job closer to home. You're wasting your life sitting in the car for 5 hours (or more) a day. No job is worth that

gipi

Another option for now might be a diesel electric hybrid - Mercedes have a range of self-charging hybrids. Might save a bit on fuel, and the tax can be lower than a regular diesel

pjdarcy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040272#Comment_118040272

You need to change electricity supplier, your night time units are way too expensive. My night units are 8.12c/kWh (day units are 16.38)

Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040336#Comment_118040336

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040417#Comment_118040417

Nightly charging costs: Say 10 hours needed nightly. Seven hours at 7.3kW at 14c/kWh (night saver) and 3 hours at 7.3kW at 18c/kWh = €1.52 per night or €365 for a year (48 weeks at 5 nights per week), so a big saving even if electricity prices.

You're waaaaay out with your figures there. It's not €365 for a year at those rates, it's €2663!

A 400km motorway commute is nuts & not BEV territory. Diesel is the only option at present.

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040368#Comment_118040368

I believe that the Nissan Qashquai will be available as an e-Power option later next year. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any firm details beyond 2022 availability and nothing about range.

This is not a true EV or a true Hybrid in the traditional sense of either.

The petrol engine generates electricity to charge the battery that drives the electric motor (similar to a diesel electric train, but the Nissan will have a battery to store the electricity). As it's running an electric motor from the battery, you get some of the same performance as an EV (instant power, etc.), but because you're using petrol it's not a proper green solution.

Nissan has had a 'Note' e-Power version available in Japan for a while.

10-10-20

400km is going to consume roughly 65kW.

If using night-charging only (12 hours, from 12 to 09 (summertime) and 11 to 08 (wintertime), and at a rate of ~7c a kW, the daily cost will be €4.55.

As per pdpmur's calculation, if you can't do night-time charging (remember: you're normally limited at the fuse-box to ~32A/7.5kW), the rate for the units excess goes to ~22c.

With a 77kW battery and so much motorway distance, the winter-time losses will be larger than summertime too and you're going to be getting home with less than 10% on the battery every day. Frankly, I'd be sticking to diesel until there is a 100kW battery available in a reasonable price-range as you're literally just burning that battery from 100% to ~8% every day.

Cyrus

Folks is the reality here not that the average speed over the 400km is going to be more like 90 km/h rather than 120/130, and as such surely there are plenty of EVs (ID4 for example) that should be pretty comfortable making the round trip?

10-10-20

€6,000 per-year/€4.55 per-day = 1,318 work days of driving of a diesel versus EV. Very tempting all of the same.

SlitDrip

Don't forget at that you only a have certain limit of night units ,

2000units bi-mothy then (in my case anyway) it goes from 5c to nearly 10c a kw.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041090#Comment_118041090

Yes and yes to the first line of the above and to @Cyrus below however 400km of mainly motorway driving would be up to 90kWh on a cold, wet and windy day.

ID.3 Tour or ID.4 77kWh should be able to do this with short top ups at a rapid charger. Will play around with ABRP now.

the_amazing_raisin

FWIW I banged the numbers into the savings calculator I have and here's what it churned out

€6k per year savings by going electric, that's a pretty good value proposition

FYI, I've tried to account for the home elctricity cost being partly at the day rate by avergaing it out to 9c/kWh

Murph85

lads surely that kind of mileage would see huge depreciation on an EV? short of importing one from uk etc if large savings can be made..

The obvious thing to save fuel is slow down, but doing that kind of mileage a day, easier said than done!!!

you would be depreciating the car by more than 6k per year easily with that mileage...

what car and age is your current car op and the mileage on her. For depreciation comparison v a suitable EV...

the_amazing_raisin

As a follow up, I worked out how many times you could take a family to Disneyland Paris for €6k

I was disappointed to find out it was only 6 times, I was hoping for once a month

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041606#Comment_118041606

that kind of mileage will see huge depreciation on any car. ICE or EV.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Reference consumption 16.5kWh at 110kmph

... and at 22.5kWh

Possible but not easy.

the_amazing_raisin

@Busman Paddy Lasty What car did you use for that? I feel like 400km should still be doable on a single charge for a lot of newer cars

The work charging is really the key to a lot of things. It would allow the OP to keep the battery between 20% and 80% which would help with battery degredation