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Cartell IE History Report

  • 08-10-2021 7:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    How accurate are Cartell IE history reports?

    I'm looking at a car that's for sale with an independent dealer.

    I ran a 3 star Cartell report which gives me the following Info

    The car was imported from the UK (Owner 1) 07-08-2020

    The car was sold 5 days later (Owner 2) 12-08-2020

    The car was traded into the makes main dealer 9 months later 01-06-2021

    The car was sold by the main dealer to the independent dealer one month later 26-07-21.

    Everything the independent dealer told me about the car seems to check out with the exception of one absolute no no if true.

    The cartel report states that there is outstanding finance on the car. It states that it is Hire Purchase which commenced on 07-08-2020 with a duration of 60 months. This hire purchase commencement coincides with the import date.

    The cartel report gives no further information on the outstanding finance and until I can get legitimate clarity on this I won't be touching it.

    Questions:

    (01) How or where can I get a proper legitimate answer to the outstanding finance issue?

    (02) How did the car change from owner 1 to owner 2 to a main dealer and finally to an independent dealer if there was outstanding finance on it?

    (03) The report states the car is out of tax by 11 months. Will the buyer be liable for back tax?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Gatorcar


    To answer question 3, no, a new owner is not liable for back tax once the ownership has changed



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    So if for example the change happened mid month? The new owner would be liable for back tax to the start of the month purchased, correct?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 72,762 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    If be very slow to buy a car that was financed and then not taxed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    The car was taxed up until a few months before it was traded into the main dealer who then sold it onto an independent dealer so I imagine that's why it lapsed on tax since.

    Surely dealers would check for any outstanding finance though?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 72,762 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Was it not that the car was taxed for 3 months in import and never taxed again?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1


    The tax issue wouldn't concern me at at all but the finance is a dirty big red flag. Even more alarming is the finance agreement quite new.

    The mere fact dealer didn't mention the finance concerns me and technically the vehicle can not be sold unless there's an agreement with finance company. In essence (I'd still run a mile) OP would have to be furnished with full details, deal with finance company directly to insure any funds paid for vehicle discharge fully any finance outstanding, this would mean Dealer is our of the loop completely and I doubt very much they'll accept that. There is absolutely no way I'd pay a dealer/ Seller directly for a vehicle with outstanding finance.

    NO WAY!!

    Walk away OP, infact RUN

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Oh I won't be touching it, but now that I have the report I'm going to hit the dealer with it to see what he has to say.

    The report states the finance was taken out at time of import and that individual shifted the car 5 days later. The current seller is not the person with the outstanding dept so I'll probably not be able to find the finance company, not that I want to now anyway, but I bet they'd find me pretty quickly if I bought it.

    As colm_mcm mentioned above about the TAX, could the non tax help it to stay under the radar somewhat for the finance company looking to track it down I wonder?

    Regardless what the current seller tells me, I won't be buying, but so many questions have been raised by this that I'm curious now about the trail and who might or might not have known about the outstanding finance. For example, the person who bought it 5 days after import offloaded it to a well known branded dealer in Dublin 9 months later, I'm finding it hard to believe that dealer didn't check the finance history. Were they (person trading in) the type of individual that likes to change their car every 9 months? or, could they have received communication from the finance company and got rid pronto? Who knows...

    Anyway, I'm well satisfied the the few euro spent on the 3 star Cartell report was money well spent. It mightn't be big money to some, but €23k is a huge chunk of change to me.

    Bottom line here is this, The person in possession of the car (thinking they own it) are the ones going to be stung when the finance company catch up.

    Caveat emptor I guess.

    PS,

    I did ring Amanda from Kin but she's not answering her phone. 😂 🤣

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Actually, that looks to be the case according to the above timeline alright.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1


    Lol, love the last line 🤣😂

    Gosh the situation even more alarming , just shocked seller didn't do their own checks, I did a check on a car worth only 4k last year, I've seen and heard so many horror stories and actually know a person who had car she purchased in good faith, lifted by Gardai , finance company reported vehicle stolen, she lost over 12k. She was lucky not to have been arrested but thankfully she explained what happened and later produced proof of payment etc. She never recovered any of the money.

    Honestly, whilst not wishing to case doubt on the integrity of current seller, I'd just walk away and thankfully you had the good sense to do a check 👍

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    The main dealer who took it as a trade-in held it for one month before offloading it to the independent dealer now selling it. I wonder did the main dealer hold for a month trying to sell it and when there was no movement decided to offload, or, did they discover it had outstanding finance and got rid to take themselves out of the net so to speak?

    They're all Arthur Daley's the lot of them...

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Just got off the phone with that dealer and he appeared taken aback with the news that the car is flagged as having finance outstanding, he is satisfied there is not. (means nothing of course). He is going to contact the finance company Monday and get them to send me documentation verifying that the car is clear of any finance owed (lets see what happens with that).

    I'm curious as to how he would even be able to track down the finance company considering the finance from what we can tell was taken out by the individual who imported the car a year or so ago? Maybe it's something that dealers have access to, but I don't know?

    Lets let this story roll and see where it goes.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭ gipi


    Buddy of mine bought a car from a dealer recently, and the cartell report showed outstanding finance too.

    After discussing with cartell and the dealer, he discovered that the finance was taken out by the dealer themselves - it's apparently done frequently, and gives the dealer money to work with instead of tying it up in cars on the forecourt.

    The finance is cleared as soon as the car is sold.

    Wonder if that's what happened here? The first dealer didn't clear the finance on the car when it was sold on, or cleared it on another vehicle?

    Worth investigating, for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    This Cartell report is referring to a 60 month hire purchase deal taken out by the person who imported the car originally though.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭ gipi


    Was the car imported by a dealer or an individual? If it was a dealer, it might explain the 2 sales in Aug 2020?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Yeah, the report says it was imported by a company and sold 5 days later to a private buyer.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Henry Ford III


    I wouldn't rely on a Cartell report.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Well, the unsuspecting buyer has to start somewhere in an effort to try and protect themselves. The dealer is aware of it now so we'll see if it can be cleared up satisfactorily. I think Cartell use the HPI database which is supposed to be trustworthy.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭ redsheeps


    You could ask Cartell to check that there hasn't been a data entry error.

    Had this issue with MotorCheck where a mileage discrepancy was flagged up. When investigated by MotorCheck it turned out that someone entered mileage data for some other car but put in the reg of the car we were buying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496


    Just to update and close this off.

    The independent dealer selling the car was unable to furnish me with any credible documentation to prove the car had no outstanding finance. I contacted Cartell again and they went and done a further background check and came back to me stating that there was no doubt that the car had outstanding finance.

    That was the end of that and I have since purchased a different car from a reputable dealer, so there my story ends.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Henry Ford III




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