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French catholic church inquiry finds 216,000 abuse cases between 1950-2020

  • 05-10-2021 1:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly


    An investigation into sexual abuse in the French Catholic Church has found that an estimated 216,000 children were victims of abuse by clergy since 1950, said Jean-March Sauve, head of the commission that compiled the report.

    The revelations in France are the latest to rock the Catholic Church, after a series of sexual abuse scandals around the world, often involving children, over the past 20 years.

    The abuse was systemic, Mr Sauve said at a public, online presentation of the report, adding that the church had shown "deep, total and even cruel indifference for years," protecting itself rather than the victims.

    216,000 cases of clerical abuse in France since 1950 (rte.ie)

    What I don't understand is why the Roman Catholic organisation is not investigating itself? It has known for decades that it was a haven for pedophiles and child abuse. The relevant state bodies always seem to be the ones uncovering the truth. Surely the church themselves need to instigate investigations across the world and report on their crimes against children. Where is the internal agitation among the clergy to open their records and come clean? They seem happy just to wait for the truth to come out and then they issue an apology.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭ FunLover18


    The church is rotten to the core and they can get away with issuing an apology fifty years after the fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Exiled1


    Same as here. The arrogance and cover-ups were identical in every country...... did that come from Rome via the seminaries it controlled like Maynooth and the many in France?? The Church authorities spent their time interfering in the most private parts of decent people's lives and routinely bullying them at every turn. Within the Church itself the culture was 'see no evil..' and definitely keep schtum. This applied in every aspect of their doings. In schools they praised clerical colleagues as 'wonderful teachers', while knowing some of these characters were born savages who got results via the end of a cane. If a lay person was slightly critical of a clerics actions, then that layman (women were ignored anyway) was quietly sidelined. Happened lots of competent and concerned teachers in Ireland and worldwide.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    Why would it investigate itself, when it would just expose how much they promoted and allowed it to happen?

    Just cover up, apologise, move on, keep the money rolling in.

    Post edited by Effects on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭ WrenBoy


    The people in the church have absolutely 100% failed in their charge and should all be held responsible but that doesn't mean people want to abandon the religion itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,556 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    People need to be part of a group. It’s not enough to just be a Christian.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,359 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I heard a figure of 330,000 mentioned too.

    Shocking to think of those 330,000 innocent children who had their lives ruined by sick perverts,the vast majority of who incurred no justice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    The larger figure is when you include abuse not carried out by priests only.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly


    Correct.

    Members of the Catholic clergy in France sexually abused an estimated 216,000 minors over the past seven decades, according to a damning report published Tuesday that said the Church had prioritized the protection of the institution over victims who were urged to stay silent.

    The number of abused minors rises to an estimated 330,000 when including victims of people who were not clergy but had other links to the Church, such as Catholic schools and youth programs.

    France Catholic church abuse scandal: 216,000 minors sexually abused, report finds - CNN

    "The Catholic Church is the place where the prevalence of sexual violence is at its highest, other than in family and friend circles," said the report, which found that children were also more likely to abused within Church settings than in state-run schools or summer camps.

    "Faced with this scourge, for a very long time the Catholic Church's immediate reaction was to protect itself as an institution and it has shown complete, even cruel, indifference to those having suffered abuse."



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ Alfred123


    Defrock the lot of them !

    And a few lashes of the leather

    On the bare buttocks ..

    put proper manners on em


    I'm not apologist for the god awful carry on by RCC over centuries

    .. but its forgotten in the dash to hate that a majority (surely) of RCC were honest to god solid folk who devoted their lives to educating / nursing etc others.

    Its not like a Rosemary's baby scenario where every last priest, nun, Bishop was in on it ..that simply wasn't so

    I just think this fact is often forgotten



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly


    It's amazing that this was the 1st investigation into clerical child abuse in France. What took them so long?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭ tinytobe


    What would interest me is, why there is so much child abuse in the catholic church? Is it really the reason, that catholic priests can't get married? Or is the catholic church as an organization part of the problem either encouraging or covering up this to happen? France is certainly not the first country, Ireland, Canada, it's seemingly everywhere..... Why? The Buddists don't seem to have that problem? Or the Jews? Or the Muslims?



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ Alfred123


    Twice Silenced: The Underreporting of Child Sexual Abuse in Orthodox Jewish Communities

    David Katzenstein and Lisa Aronson Silver School of Social Work, New York University, New York, New York, USA; University of Massachusetts Amherst, Amherst, Massachusetts, USA


    ABSTRACT

    Child sexual abuse remains an underreported crime throughout the world, despite extensive research and resources dedicated both to improving investigative techniques and helping children disclose their experiences.

    The discovery of rampant cover-ups within the Catholic Church has exposed some of the ways religious and cultural issues can impede reporting to authorities. This article examines specific factors that contribute to the underreporting of child sexual abuse within Orthodox Jewish communities. It also explores ways in which these communities have handled child sexual abuse reporting in the past and describes recent progress.

    Implications are offered for CSA prevention, detection, and recovery in Orthodox Jewish communities as well as other minority religious groups.

    ARTICLE HISTORY

    Received 28 March 2017

    Child sexual abuse; cultural

    factors; Jews; religion;

    underreporting


    Child sexual abuse (CSA) exists to some extent in most communities (Finkelhor,2009; Pereda, Guilera, Forns, & Gómez-Benito, 2009) and is acknowledged as a vast worldwide public health problem with wide-ranging negative effects for victims, their families, and society as a whole (Putnam, 2003).

    Recent research explores variations in the ways CSA appears and is handled in culturally and religiously distinct communities (e.g., Graham, Lanier, Johnson-Motoyama, 2016;Tishelman & Fontes, 2017).

    Although research is limited, CSA appears to be as prevalent in Orthodox Jewish communities as elsewhere (Yehuda, Friedman, Rosenbaum, Labinsky, & Schmeidler, 2007), despite strict and clear guidelines about sexually (in)appropriate relationships. Some rabbis have called CSA a “matter of life and death” because of its far-reaching harm (Horowitz, 2012; Schere, 2016)."

    Here in Ireland, We have already imported Religions with a proven track record of having scant regard for human rights. They are certainly not the kind to report CSA openly. It is something that would be dealt with internally. It would certainly never makes it to the media.

    Also, what might be considered CSA in a Western society may be perfectly acceptable in another belief system : "underage", forced marriages, female genital mutilation

    While abuse of minors is unacceptable in any shape of form, it is wrong to make the Catholic church the sole whipping boy.

    CSA is not confined to the RCC



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,323 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    Did you not read the news story that you link to? The report disclosing 216,000 cases of clerical abuse was commissioned by the Catholic church.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭ uptherebels


    Nobody said it was confined to the RCC.

    I was wondering how long it would take for the deflectors to turn up



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ Alfred123


    How is it "deflection"?

    I was simply replying to TINYTOBE's observation above that CSA seems to be confined to the RCC

    Follow the thread and you'll be fine



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    The organisation, the catholic church, should be banned. If this was the rotary club or green peace they'd be shut down and members would be on criminal trial.

    Animals roaming free and their partners in crime, politicians, afraid of losing votes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    Do you think they acted because they got a call from a victim a few months ago?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The one thing that may be different in France is there is a full separation of church and state and one that’s taken very seriously. I could see there being a far more legalistic approach to this. They’re more likely to go after it through criminal law.

    Ireland’s is great at the hand wringing tribunals of enquiry and producing complex reports that ultimately have no consequences.

    How France pursues this will be a big test of "la laïcité"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭ uptherebels


    Where did he say it was confined to the RCC?

    The question was why there is so much of it in the RCC and are the church's actions in covering it up, moving priests around contribution to the massive number of victims everywhere they are.

    Your source is referencing religious communities as a whole, yet you want to compare it to the actions of the church instead of the wider Catholic community, why is that?

    Like I said it wasn't long for the deflectors to turn up.

    But hey, try and actually read the posts and you'll be fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭ seenitall


    To be fair, he did say/query that the Buddists/Jews/Muslims don’t seem to have that problem? They obviously do, power corrupts everywhere and anywhere, and many such things get either covered up far and wide, or even expressly condoned, with just as much vigour as the cover ups in the RCC (of which I’m no fan, either). I mean the mere fact that CSA in some cultures would go under the general heading of “marriage”; what is more “institutionally condoned CSA” than that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ Alfred123


    Thank you, Seen it all, for restoring a sense of balance and perspective

    Some posters here catch their knickers on fire and want to burn down every church in sight and all of those inside them.

    They don't want to be 'deflected' from their mission neither

    There are 2.3 billion Christians in the world. They are not all trying to abuse children and stick crucifixes up each others' orifices.

    Shame on those who abused their power but let us lose the lynch mob mentality.

    This is not the fecking Daily Mail



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,490 ✭✭✭✭ PopePalpatine


    Alzheimer's is too good for the paedos and their enablers and collaborators.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,513 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Anybody still putting money on the RCC's collection plates is enabling the cover up of child abuse.

    "12 pages in and it still needs to be explained to some posters why this guy ended up where he did. It probably explains why so many gobshites get elected in this country."



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I was baptised, but defected formally back when it was still possible. I am most definitely an atheist - I have never believed in any of that stuff, but the church itself is a cultural and social organisation.

    I felt it needed formal feedback that it wasn't just some fizzling out of faith or theological argument about atheism, but that I want nothing whatsoever to do with an organisation that's done what it has done, nor one that takes stances on women's rights and LGBTQ+ rights that are way out of whack with my own beliefs and sense of what human rights are about. So I laid out why I was leaving.

    France does not have the complications Ireland has. There's a well established public school system that's entirely secular and so on and I would sincerely hope that it has the ability to hold them equally accountable before the law, rather than just do what we did - endlessly bow to a very powerful organisation (or group of organisations).



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    The thing about these revelations is that the real number is always higher, because some people won't admit what happened to them, died before proper investigations were carried out etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ protonmike


    The big factor though is the very top of echelons of the church were responsible for a global cover-up. This includes the likes of John Paul II, it's basically the church being rotten at its moral core. While I get that people may choose to remain a member but it also requires a large amount of overlooking by members to the scale of what happened globally.



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