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F1 2021 Round 15:Russian Grand Prix 2021



  • Ah right apologies, I can’t remember the 2019 one. Regardless, the precedent for Landos reprimand is in place!

    Edit: Just had a look at the 2019 incident and it’s completely different. Hamilton intentionally entered the pits from the wrong side and the conditioners weren't the reason it happened. I don’t really think they can be compared.

  • Certainly precedent for it, it's just annoying the inconsistencies of when it's applied.

  • I think the outcome was fair tbh. If a pen had been given I don’t think he could complain tho either.

  • You couldn't have that any more backward. The civil service is somewhere where there should be room for common sense. When it comes to sport, common sense ought to dictate that the rules are applied in the same way to everyone.

    Like I said before, in football if the ref could decided not to bother giving a corner because it was raining and the defender slipped when he hit the ball out, that would be utterly ridiculous and people would rightly be calling it a sham. There is no difference here. Either the rules apply all the time or never, if you leave it up to some people in a room to decide on a whim in secrecy, you end up with decisions that simply can never be trusted.

    As others have pointed out, they excused Hamilton another year too, basically the only precedent right now is that the driver always gets a time penalty no matter how minor the slightest infraction of one tyre going over a line might be, unless it's a British driver with a Mercedes engine who the media will whip up a frenzy about if they get penalised, in which case it's a reprimand. Which is precisely the reason why the rules ought to be black and white.

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  • I don't think the rules need to be applied in a black and white fashion, but they do need to actually start judging them consistently.

    I think the judgement on Lando was reasonable, but the judgement on Tsunoda was ridiculously harsh. If there is a possibility of a reprimand with no actual time penalty, then that should be the default unless there was blatant intent and/or it was safer to stay out and do another lap. If a driver has been reprimanded before for a similar incident then they should be able to take that into account.

    Mainly I think that the reason you cannot really judge it in football terms is because of the high risk factor involved in F1. There should always be some leeway to allow the driver to judge the situation he's in and act in what he believes is the safest manner, and then he should be able to explain his actions to the stewards. To treat the rules as absolutes can just invite more risk.

  • Using your football analogy, we see fouls let go all the time and the ref playing advantage and then go back and book the player who committed the foul at the next break in play, it’s pretty common!

    And in this case, strictly speaking the law was followed as it explicitly states “a driver must not cross the white line… except in cases of force majeure”. The stewards judged this to be a case of force majeure.

  • Didn't the pit entry bollard have something to do with the difference between reprimand and time penalty? As I remember it, though could be wrong, Lewis had passed the bollard indicating the start of the pit entry on the track side and then cut in to the pit entry, while on the other he had entered the pit but then hopped out.

  • Yeah that’s it. He cut straight across the grass verge in 2019 after losing his front wing at that corner.

  • Right, so Lando had entered the pits by staying to the right of the bollard but couldn't keep the car under control due to conditions and tyres (and I suspect a hint of red mist)and went straight on. On other tracks with similar pit entries before final turn like Barcelona or Albert Park, there's usually a barrier to keep cars funnelled in. Barriers that Kimi hit in Spa earlier this year and actually Lewis hit in Russia on the Saturday, yet no penalties or reprimands handed out for those. I think it's perfectly fair that Lando retained his 7th.

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  • Really the stewards should have just said it was Force Majeure and it would have been too dangerous to attempt another lap on slicks. Instead they ruled out FM and muddied things.

    I still haven't watched any Lando interviews or listened to radio or w/e, just feel so bad for the guy. I have an awful feeling (and really hope it's wrong) that this season could end up being seen as something of a flash in the pan from his POV. He's always been good but maybe just that step below elite and if this season slips by and McLaren aren't right at the sharp end from the start next season I just worry he'll fade a bit.

  • In regards to the comment re: Lewis' 100 wins - I do think Mercedes will return to be the dominant force next year. Their decision to stop working/developing the car so early last year is ultimately what has catapulted Redbull to the forefront (that being said, they are still marginally ahead this year in the constructors championship and this is largely due to Bottas's lacklustre season picking up substantially contrasted with a poor latter half to the season for Perez).

    That being said, Lewis only signed a two year contract and it will seems like mercedes want young blood with Lando being the obvious choice ... perhaps Lewis will retire or fulfil his known childhood dreams of driving with Ferrari (could see Sainz or Leclerc being good contenders for the second seat at RB in the future).

    In regards to the rules - consistency - Lando was driving in torrential wet weather - I would think that common sense should prevail over Tsunoda on a dry day etc. Same applies to the comment about the pit wall incident with Lewis - in the wet. I think allowances are fair to give in certain weather conditions etc or where different track i.e tighter pits...

  • I think this season has shown that the money hungry world of F1/FIA have little regard to the safety of drivers over the need to profit... Belgium being the obvious example.

    I think Lando is only just getting started... McLaren have shown a lot of commitment to him. they wouldn't change the car to suit Riccardo, because it was to Lando's liking.

    He has a three year deal with McLaren, notably running a merc engine and competing with the main two for the last two races. I am still very much convinced he will progress to a mercedes seat thereafter.

  • That first part, huh?

    How does preventing the cars from racing in unsafe conditions show little regard for safety?

    How does pushing forward an ugly but brilliant wishbone fixture to the front of a cockpit show little regard for safety?

    How does neutralising racing whenever a car/driver needs to be removed from the circuit show little regard for safety.

    You're talking out of your arse hole here.

  • The halo you refer to was brought in as an after thought after many incidents and accidents.

    YES there have been advancements in F1 that have improved the safety of the sport i.e. no refuelling. BUT f1 is not primarily concerned with the safety of its drivers. Any moron can see that.

    How does driving at top speeds of 233mph in torrential weather, poor visibility AND obstruction of view noting the halo as referenced by yourself spell out safety to you?? Safety is rescheduling a race the next day. Unfortunately that isn't money efficient. F1 gave the bare bones race possible to avoid paying out in refunded tickets for the Belgium race. I am all for an entertaining wet race and I get that these drivers are professionals and able to drive in a multitude of conditions but there is a line. They aren't performing monkeys either.

  • Maybe your memory has faded but they didn't race. It was called off on safety grounds.

  • What race are you talking about exactly because in Belgium they had to complete two laps behind a safety car!! Pointless exercise altogether

  • It wasn't exactly called off though, they did 2 laps behind the safety car and got points. To me called off is no cars leave the pits and no points for anybody, spectators get refunded etc.

  • Ya I think Lando has done enough already to put himself in the shop window for any top seat.

    I think he is up there with Verstappen. He is pretty much always there when the chance presents itself.

    Only the best seem to manage that. Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso etc.

  • Well let's not forget Charles LeClerc here. Unlike Lando he has some race wins under his belt.

    We are in a very healthy position after Lewis fades away, Lando, George, Charles and maybe even Carlos. What might Pierre prove if he ever gets back into Red Bull? What about Schumacher Jr. after a couple more years?

    The only problem is there can only be one world champion each year. It's unlikely they'll all win it at some stage so somebody is going to be the next Felipe Massa.

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  • He needs to win a race or two first of all - even Perez managed that at Force India. Not even Hamilton is near Verstappen level at the moment so Lando has to judged accordingly. I think Leclerc is a more accomplished driver than both Norris and Russell right now so the Brits have it all to do next year.

  • A win will boost a driver's profile but it really should depend on the manner of the win. Perez won that race last season by pure luck. He was on for s decent result but pure luck put him ahead of the Mercedes, either of whom would have won handily if not for the fiasco that ensued.

    Gasley was lucky in a similar way. But Gasley and Norris have shown themselves to be very good drivers independent of those wins. Gasley would be equally good now if he hasn't been incredibly lucky in Monza, but he might not get the same recognition. And that's a bit silly bit it's also the way things work. It's the power of storytelling. Gasley is now part of t"he elite club of race winners" even though he's exactly the same driver as he would be in hadn't fluke a win that time. Likewise. Sainz is flying an he didn't win that race in Monza last year.

  • Gasly has absolutely carried that Alpha Tauri team this season - I am not a fan of Tsunoda (his inexperience coupled with what comes across as a bad attitude hasn't helped him much this season but I am sure he will learn) but I think Gasly is in a grey area - Red Bull dont seem to want him back - Marko has already stated that Gasly going back to that seat is a non-runner. Why is the second seat of RB so difficult to fill and where can Gasly go from here?

    Also wondering what the future holds for Riccardo - he is getting on a bit in driver terms (32) and although a likeable character, he has never amounted to what has been expected for him ... I know he has improved in the last couple of races for McLaren and he may have just taken a while to settle in, but I do wonder where he can go from here too.

    I know any mention of Lewis just starts the usual comments of "always been in the fastest car" etc... but after his win on Sunday there, 14 years of being in the forefront of F1 is pretty incredible and I feel that people who live through history never appreciate as much as those who look back on it (to echo Toto's comment).

  • Yeah, the red bull situation is fairly interesting looking beyond 2022, if perez isn't improving next year with the new regs I don't think they will keep him around. If gasly keeps up his current form into next year then they'd be (IMO) foolish not to give him a second chance at the red bull seat. Tsunoda looks a million miles away and will be lucky the stay in F1 beyond next season the way he's going.

    If Gasly can't get back to red bull he's at a bit of his cross roads in his career also, he has the talent and the pace but he won't ever achieve much in a B team car. Would redbull look at someone like vettel or ricciardo to return for a season maybe near the end of their careers if perez isn't doing what's needed and their academy isn't bringing anyone through?

  • I had heard rumours that Red Bull had been interested in Alonso only he had already signed his contract with Alpine. They don't seem to have a focus to fill that seat for a potential front runner, more of just an able assistant for Max. But sure, that's been the situation at Mercedes for 5 years too, though in fairness to Bottas - he has done a stellar job.

    With George going to Mercedes, they would be wise to try poach Lando at some stage or even one of the Ferrari lads to actually invest in that second seat properly, instead it seems cursed. RB might win the drivers championship but the constructors isn't going their way unless they fill that seat properly - though I am already writing Perez off here and he has pulled a few good performances out the bag compared to Albon and Gasly.

    Will Gasly experience Albon-esque issues? (Mercedes were not happy with the RB driver taking a seat with a mercedes powered engine) that could cause issues with a potential move to McLaren/Aston Martin etc... I could see Vettel retiring in the next year or two and the Aston Martin seat becoming available - though it has been a very "mid-field" car this season.

  • I think AM is a genuine contender in the next few years. They've built a big new factory with the latest bells and whistles. They've also poached some top engineers and designers from other teams. It will probably come too late for Vettel but Stroll could be in a top car in a few years if AM fulfills its potential.

    Mclaren is also being run well at the moment and Ferrari is always in with a shout of having a good car. So the field could be very competitive in the coming years. But I'd still bank on merc followed by red bull being the real title tenders.

    I also think Alonso has been linking himself with a red bull seat for the last decade. I'm not sure what the strategy would be at this point in his career, but supposedly he has been putting out that same rumour for ages.

  • In fairness considering it has been effectively a two horse race of a season, Alpine and McLaren still got a win. The mid field has been very entertaining this year and credit to Sainz and Leclerc as they have effectively kept ferrari in the midst of it all when they have not been as strong car development wise. Even Williams have contributed to the season. Haas have provided the extra obstacles on the course 😂.

  • It really shows the level of teamwork between the engineer and driver! The amount of comms is interesting, especially considering the conditions! Goes to show that we really only get to hear a fraction of them during the live broadcast on SKY.

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  • A really interesting statistic was highlighted today by mercedes:-

    Hamilton has won 9.5% of f1 races (calculated from 1950 to date).