Churchlands Delgany Development

Blandpebbles

Just received the email note about Churchlands, Delgany development going up for sale off plans from mid-October.

Setting up this thread for those interested.

Looks to be 3 bed semis and terraces in first phase with a guide price of low to mid 400s.

https://www.daft.ie/wicklow/houses-for-sale/delgany/4-bed-family-homes-churchlands-4-bed-family-homes-delgany-wicklow-2271563/

mccartas

We have been to the site and to see the model homes. They are replicating the 3-beds in Seagreen Gate which are lovely.

The builder is Wood Group. Does anyone have any reviews/experience on dealing with Wood Group in terms of the overall quality, timelines, finish etc?

Buying off plans is a little daunting, so I'd appreciate any information out there.

pixbyjohn

Ground works at Churchlands by Pixbyjohn, on Flickr



Ground works at Churchlands by Pixbyjohn, on Flickr

FirstIn

More houses. We’ll need to be on the road at 6am to get to work. The crazy traffic at school drop off times. Waiting lists for clubs and schools longer than the Brexit negotiations. Greystones and Delgany choking. It’s crazy. There’s little consideration to infrastructure , and when it does come it’s so late. The massive negative impact all this building has on existing residents and the town. I’ve said it before. Greystones was a much better place to live years ago. I’m glad I was fortunate enough to have been brought up here in the 70s and 80s. They’ve ruined it. We have to live with the mistakes of this orgy of house building. The builders will build. The developers will develope. The land owners will sell. It’s the zoning. Those that have zone for so many houses and allow all this building are ruining the area.

awec

FirstIn wrote: »

More houses. We’ll need to be on the road at 6am to get to work. The crazy traffic at school drop off times. Waiting lists for clubs and schools longer than the Brexit negotiations. Greystones and Delgany choking. It’s crazy. There’s little consideration to infrastructure , and when it does come it’s so late. The massive negative impact all this building has on existing residents and the town. I’ve said it before. Greystones was a much better place to live years ago. I’m glad I was fortunate enough to have been brought up here in the 70s and 80s. They’ve ruined it. We have to live with the mistakes of this orgy of house building. The builders will build. The developers will develope. The land owners will sell. It’s the zoning. Those that have zone for so many houses and allow all this building are ruining the area.

This is pure NIMBYism.

Towns grow. Towns within commuting distance of capital cities grow quickly. Welcome to the real world.

FirstIn

awec wrote: »

This is pure NIMBYism.

Towns grow. Towns within commuting distance of capital cities grow quickly. Welcome to the real world.

Bullsh1t. This town has grown alright. Overgrown. I understand growth. But not when it’s out of step with what the area can sustain. Have you tried driving through the town in the morning ? Have you tried getting a place in a school or in some of the clubs. Have you sat in traffic getting out of Greystones over Windgates ?

I’ll bet , a small wager your comment is the comment of a blow-in. Talk to people that have lived here more than a wet week.

baldbear

FirstIn wrote: »

Bullsh1t. This town has grown alright. Overgrown. I understand growth. But not when it’s out of step with what the area can sustain. Have you tried driving through the town in the morning ? Have you tried getting a place in a school or in some of the clubs. Have you sat in traffic getting out of Greystones over Windgates ?

I’ll bet , a small wager your comment is the comment of a blow-in. Talk to people that have lived here more than a wet week.

It's the same everywhere now around Dublin..build,build,build. The housing crisis is allowing builders to overbuild apartment blocks houses etc. And the worst thing is they aren't even affordable.

A family member lives in Greystones & i visited the harbour their for the first time. Those houses near the harbour have the place ruined.

pixbyjohn

Far too many houses built without the proper development of infrastructure to cater for the number of people and traffic in the area.

punisher5112

Dublin prices in not so Dublin

awec

FirstIn wrote: »

Bullsh1t. This town has grown alright. Overgrown. I understand growth. But not when it’s out of step with what the area can sustain. Have you tried driving through the town in the morning ? Have you tried getting a place in a school or in some of the clubs. Have you sat in traffic getting out of Greystones over Windgates ?

I’ll bet , a small wager your comment is the comment of a blow-in. Talk to people that have lived here more than a wet week.

This "blow-in" nonsense shows you up for what you really are. You've a superiority complex, as if you've more right to be here than anyone else, or that you can somehow speak on behalf of the town.

And yes, I have got a school place for my child, and yes I commute to Dublin every morning. There are more houses going in, traffic will get worse, but people need places to live, so they'll build houses.

As for infrastructure, the Eastmount development, which is beside this Churchlands one, includes upgrading Chapel Road, so traffic will no longer go past the school. The road will be widened, with cycle lanes in both directions. There are plans for the N11 to be widened as far as Greystones. There are plans for the Bus Connects which will come as far as Greystones. People need to give it time before they start with the dramatics.

But you can always leave, if it's as terrible for you as you're telling us.

Cluster

FirstIn wrote: »

Bullsh1t. This town has grown alright. Overgrown. I understand growth. But not when it’s out of step with what the area can sustain. Have you tried driving through the town in the morning ? Have you tried getting a place in a school or in some of the clubs. Have you sat in traffic getting out of Greystones over Windgates ?

I’ll bet , a small wager your comment is the comment of a blow-in. Talk to people that have lived here more than a wet week.

Drive through town every other morning, no problem.

Got two kids in new school in last 3 months, no problem.

Got 2 kids into Greystones soccer and GAA in last 3 months.

Work from home most of the time so you got me on last point.

Cluster

mccartas wrote: »

We have been to the site and to see the model homes. They are replicating the 3-beds in Seagreen Gate which are lovely.

The builder is Wood Group. Does anyone have any reviews/experience on dealing with Wood Group in terms of the overall quality, timelines, finish etc?

Buying off plans is a little daunting, so I'd appreciate any information out there.

You'll find these threads get hijacked by the moan crew and it seems to be the same lads all the time. Infrastructure and the good old days is usually the theme.

I'm in the process of buying a house of Wood Group. Nice builder, local family so take pride in the area and their builds, you'll see from other folks who have bought houses from them that they are a good build.

I've bought off the plans too. Go and talk to people in Seagreen, I did, apart from one or two issues, everyone Ive talked too has had a positive experience.

I've been told the house will be ready in Feb but some say add 3 or even 6 months to that. We'll see

2011

Cluster wrote: »

Drive through town every other morning, no problem.

That very much depends on the time of day and this is before all of the homes currently being built are lived in.

Got two kids in new school in last 3 months, no problem.

Ditto.

Regarding Woods: I hear lots of good things. I think that whoever buys homes from this builder will be happy with the quality. In general standards seem to have improved dramatically, especially when you compare it to the carnage we saw in the area during the Celtic Tiger years in almost every home built during that period.

Cerco

mccartas wrote: »

We have been to the site and to see the model homes. They are replicating the 3-beds in Seagreen Gate which are lovely.

The builder is Wood Group. Does anyone have any reviews/experience on dealing with Wood Group in terms of the overall quality, timelines, finish etc?

Buying off plans is a little daunting, so I'd appreciate any information out there.

Woods have built houses here in Greystones for over 40 years. Cannot vouch for current builds but older ones were fine for their time.
Going back then they had poor insulation, chipboard upper floors, stippled ceilings etc. but that was the norm for that generation of builds.
Woods seem to be well regarded in the community.

loyatemu

Greystones/Delgany has a target population of (I think) 25K in the regional plans. It is, as has been pointed out, a commuter town with little local employment, and whatever the best intentions of local politicians, I can't see that changing. Any increase in local jobs is never going to keep pace with the increases in population.

But there's serious limits on the transport infrastructure - the Dart frequency cannot be increased without major changes to the line around Bray Head (changes that are not currently on the cards for the next 10 years); bus capacity is limited by having to use the single road to Bray that has no bus lanes and everywhere is choked with traffic.

Simply saying "Greystones is a commuter town, suck it up" is not enough; you can't increase the population of a commuter town without improving the transport links, and that's not possible currently. Dublin is not short of land, there's plenty of space for development inside the M50. Development should be focussed where the transports links are available and as close as possible to the employment centres.

Encouraging people to commute by car for more than 2 hours a day (effectively what's happening in Greystones) is bad planning. And all that's without even discussing the increasingly chronic traffic in the town itself. It's not NIMBYISM to look for sustainable development. I don't have a problem with the town getting bigger per se; it's the lack of planning around supporting infrastructure I find frustrating.

awec

Land in Dublin is insanely expensive, which makes large swathes of it nonviable for the sort of housing that is required.

I don't think the infrastructure planning is perfect by any means, and I'm not saying suck it up. I do hope local and regional authorities are pushed hard on the infrastructure. The M1 / M7 have all been improved in recent years, and I am pretty sure plans are in progess for the N11.

The government have tried to get businesses to set up outside of Dublin as well, to try spread the employment centres, but businesses are generally not interested. As you say, Greystones will always be local business, shops, cafes, bars and the likes.

But this overly dramatic "the town is ruined", "I've lived here for years", "blow-ins", "back in the day it was way better" stuff is hardly useful thinking. It comes across as pretentious. The town is going to grow very quickly thanks to it's geography, that's just reality.

2011

awec wrote: »

Land in Dublin is insanely expensive

This also applies to Greystones.

I am pretty sure plans are in progess for the N11.

Really? Based on what exactly?? What do you think could realistically be done to the N11 that would actually make the commute bearable when the traffic increases due to all of the new homes???

Blandpebbles

Wow this thread exploded.

On Churchlands, we decided not to buy there for a few reasons

1. Wood Group tend to build more dense estates, Charlesland and Seagreen as examples. Narrower roads, and more tightly packed houses.

2. The entrance to Churchlands will be via Delgany Glen not the Delgany Road next to Laurences.

3. Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates

4. Maintenance charge

5. Slope of houses and aspects on sale

6. Proximity to some 'problem' estates

All of the above are personal preferences, everyone has a feel for where they will be happy.

Eastmount is coming along nicely too but the proposed road improvements will not alleviate the massive load of traffic everyday.

A month into the autumn/winter drive to Sandyford and traffic already feels heavier than last year. 13 crashes on the N11 already this year.

loyatemu

there are plans for "improvements" to the N11, still being designed - details here https://n11m11.ie/
They're unlikely to deliver much extra capacity, it can't be widened (and that wouldn't be a great idea anyway for various reasons).

awec

2011 wrote: »

This also applies to Greystones.



Really? Based on what exactly?? What do you think could realistically be done to the N11 that would actually make the commute bearable when the traffic increases due to all of the new homes???

Not to the same extent.

loyatemu wrote: »

there are plans for "improvements" to the N11, still being designed - details here https://n11m11.ie/
They're unlikely to deliver much extra capacity, it can't be widened (and that wouldn't be a great idea anyway for various reasons).

I don't think anything has been ruled in or out yet (or if it has, I haven't seen anything). Wasn't there also talk of a new road to the N11, so not all traffic has to go out via the Windgates or Delgany?

Widening the N11 is likely possible as far south as Greystones.

awec

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Wow this thread exploded.

On Churchlands, we decided not to buy there for a few reasons

1. Wood Group tend to build more dense estates, Charlesland and Seagreen as examples. Narrower roads, and more tightly packed houses.

2. The entrance to Churchlands will be via Delgany Glen not the Delgany Road next to Laurences.

3. Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates

4. Maintenance charge

5. Slope of houses and aspects on sale

6. Proximity to some 'problem' estates

All of the above are personal preferences, everyone has a feel for where they will be happy.

Eastmount is coming along nicely too but the proposed road improvements will not alleviate the massive load of traffic everyday.

A month into the autumn/winter drive to Sandyford and traffic already feels heavier than last year. 13 crashes on the N11 already this year.

I don't think Wood Group did Charlesland.

There is no maintenance charges for their recent developments.

Every new development has a mix of private and social, I think they got rid of the scheme allowing developers to opt out.

Blandpebbles

Yes, my mistake, that was Zapi

mccartas

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Wow this thread exploded.

On Churchlands, we decided not to buy there for a few reasons

1. Wood Group tend to build more dense estates, Charlesland and Seagreen as examples. Narrower roads, and more tightly packed houses.

2. The entrance to Churchlands will be via Delgany Glen not the Delgany Road next to Laurences.

3. Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates

4. Maintenance charge

5. Slope of houses and aspects on sale

6. Proximity to some 'problem' estates

All of the above are personal preferences, everyone has a feel for where they will be happy.

Eastmount is coming along nicely too but the proposed road improvements will not alleviate the massive load of traffic everyday.

A month into the autumn/winter drive to Sandyford and traffic already feels heavier than last year. 13 crashes on the N11 already this year.

Thanks for the feedback, it's good to hear other opinions on it.

Could you clarify what you mean on " Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates" ?

I also wasn't aware of the maintencance charge, so will ask about that too.

I think the aspect we were looking at is ok, with a west facing garden.

Appreciate the feedback!

loyatemu

awec wrote: »

I don't think anything has been ruled in or out yet (or if it has, I haven't seen anything). Wasn't there also talk of a new road to the N11, so not all traffic has to go out via the Windgates or Delgany?

Widening the N11 is likely possible as far south as Greystones.

there is "long-term" road plan for a new northern access route from Greystones to the N11, so rather than queuing on the Bray southern cross road, drivers can queue at the Glenview Hotel.

As for widening - it's planned to widen to to 3 lanes as far as J7 (Kilcroney); further south it's likely to be some minor junctions being closed, bus lanes in the hard-shoulder maybe, & some new side roads to take local traffic off the N11 e.g. between Kilpedder and Newtown).

2011

awec wrote: »

Not to the same extent.

Incorrect.
Greystones site value exceeds many areas in Dublin.

I don't think anything has been ruled in or out yet (or if it has, I haven't seen anything).

So now there is no plan. This conflicts with what you said above where you said “ I am pretty sure plans are in progess for the N11“

2011

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Wood Group tend to build more dense estates, Charlesland and Seagreen as examples.

I don't think any of Charlesland was built by Woods. Many party were built by various factions of Durkan's as is evident by the poor standards. My own home (not in Charlesland) was built by Durkan Residential, I have been fixing their gunters for over 10 years now

2. The entrance to Churchlands will be via Delgany Glen not the Delgany Road next to Laurences.

Is that bad?

3. Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates

4. Maintenance charge

Both of these are pretty much everywhere now.

There is social housing in my estate. We have had no issues from anyone in our estate since it was built (over 10 years ago now). I don't really buy into the "us and them" sort of thing, neither does anyone else here, this might be why we don't have any issues?

Narrower roads, and more tightly packed houses.

That is every new estate in Greystones now due to the cost of zoned land.

5. Slope of houses and aspects on sale

I would not be a fan of this either if I was going to be overlooked.

6. Proximity to some 'problem' estates

Seriously???

Eastmount is coming along nicely too but the proposed road improvements will not alleviate the massive load of traffic everyday.

Agreed.

A month into the autumn/winter drive to Sandyford and traffic already feels heavier than last year. 13 crashes on the N11 already this year.

I drive on the N11 a lot, I would have thought the number was far higher. There was another crash this week near Newcastle.

awec

2011 wrote: »

Incorrect.
Greystones site value exceeds many areas in Dublin.




So now there is no plan. This conflicts with what you said above where you said “ I am pretty sure plans are in progess for the N11“

I meant they are in progress making plans, not that they're in progress to actually do the upgrade.

2011

awec wrote: »

I meant they are in progress making plans, not that they're in progress to actually do the upgrade.

So they are thinking of doing something rather than actually doing anything as the traffic issues continue to escalate. Sounds great :eek:
Meanwhile multiple plans are launched to build on every square inch of Greystones and surrounding areas. What could possibly go wrong ???

awec

2011 wrote: »

So they are thinking of doing something rather than actually doing anything as the traffic issues continue to escalate. Sounds great :eek:
Meanwhile multiple plans are launched to build on every square inch of Greystones and surrounding areas. What could possibly go wrong ???

What do you expect them to do? Build without figuring out what exactly is needed first?

2011

awec wrote: »

What do you expect them to do?

Having a plan would be nice
God knows we have seen this situation coming form a long way off.

Annasopra

awec wrote: »

What do you expect them to do? Build without figuring out what exactly is needed first?

Better planning. Dont build so much housing without decent transport infrastructure incorporated. I'm not a big fan of Cllr Derek Mitchell but he forseaw all these transport problems and voted afsinst the County Development Plan. And on this he was dead right.

The cureent cdp is all build, build, build and doesnt take account of transport or sustainability

Cluster

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Wow this thread exploded.

On Churchlands, we decided not to buy there for a few reasons

1. Wood Group tend to build more dense estates, Charlesland and Seagreen as examples. Narrower roads, and more tightly packed houses.

2. The entrance to Churchlands will be via Delgany Glen not the Delgany Road next to Laurences.

3. Mix of private and social housing compared to other estates

4. Maintenance charge

5. Slope of houses and aspects on sale

6. Proximity to some 'problem' estates

All of the above are personal preferences, everyone has a feel for where they will be happy.

Eastmount is coming along nicely too but the proposed road improvements will not alleviate the massive load of traffic everyday.

A month into the autumn/winter drive to Sandyford and traffic already feels heavier than last year. 13 crashes on the N11 already this year.

problem estates? ha, I would have grown up in one of these. There's a real welcome to the community vibe off this one.

Blandpebbles

A problem estate with a nice vibe... do you work for Sherry Fitz ��
But seriously, I grow up in a council estate it doesn’t mean I have to blindly get triggered by the facts.

lfen

Hi All, also looking at Churchlands as one of our options. Interested to know if the sales office was busy today?

We have Glenheron and Eastmount on the list too so any feedback on those developments would be great.

Sherry Fitz told us to keep an eye on Farrankelly also but not keen on those as there will be 3 blocks of 4 story apartments. Nothing against apartments as such, live in one currently and love it but person don’t like developments with a mix of houses/apartments.

Cluster

Blandpebbles wrote: »

A problem estate with a nice vibe... do you work for Sherry Fitz ��
But seriously, I grow up in a council estate it doesn’t mean I have to blindly get triggered by the facts.

Ha, nice reverse there.

mccartas

lfen wrote: »

Hi All, also looking at Churchlands as one of our options. Interested to know if the sales office was busy today?

We have Glenheron and Eastmount on the list too so any feedback on those developments would be great.

Sherry Fitz told us to keep an eye on Farrankelly also but not keen on those as there will be 3 blocks of 4 story apartments. Nothing against apartments as such, live in one currently and love it but person don’t like developments with a mix of houses/apartments.

Yes, very busy. I think they released about 20 houses in total and there seemed to be a lot more people than that present when we visited at opening time.

2011

Cluster wrote: »

Drive through town every other morning, no problem.

You must drive through very early or very late. Monday to Friday in the morning and evening it gets very contested for people going to work or school. This is the traffic at Blacklion at 7:05 am today.

loyatemu

2011 wrote: »

Traffic at Blacklion at 7:05 am today

can't even blame the schools for that.

that is unusual though - I drove into town last week and left at 7.15 to very little traffic. Accident on the N11 today?

2011

loyatemu wrote: »

can't even blame the schools for that.

Agreed, I’m not. That is a different phase of traffic congestion that manifests itself later on in the morning.
It’s mainly lots of people like me commuting work. This will be far worse over the next few years as more homes in the area are occupied.

Accident on the N11 today?

Perhaps.
I would estimate that on average there is one incident / issue a fortnight on the N11 that causes abnormal traffic congestion. Even a 3 minute delay at Glen of the Downs can translate into a 25 minute delay by the time you reach the M50 toll due to the knock on effect.

Each time an issue occurs google maps suggests that I drive though Blacklion, otherwise I am directed to the N11 via Farrankelly road. When directed through Blacklion this would be typical of the traffic connection I would see.

From my own experience the google maps recommendation is the quickest route for me to work.

Annasopra

2011 wrote: »

Agreed, I’m not. That is a different phase of traffic congestion that manifests itself later on in the morning.
It’s mainly lots of people like me commuting work. This will be far worse over the next few years as more homes in the area are occupied.



Perhaps.
I would estimate one incident / issue a fortnight on the N11 that causes a more than average issue with traffic. Each time this happens google maps suggests that I drive though Blacklion, otherwise I am directed to the N11 via Farrankelly road. When directed through Blacklion this would be typical of the traffic connection I would see.

From my own experience the google maps recommendation is the quickest route for me to work.

Its nearly 1 or 2 accudents a week on the N11 right now

2011

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its nearly 1 or 2 accudents a week on the N11 right now

Yes, you are probably right. I was being selfish and only considering the ones that impact on my journey to work

I generally get up earlier than most so that I miss the worst of the traffic (God bless flextime!). However I find myself having to get up earlier all of the time.

loyatemu

2011 wrote: »

Yes, you are probably right. I was being selfish and only considering the ones that impact on my journey to work

I generally get up earlier than most so that I miss the worst of the traffic (God bless flextime!). However I find myself having to get up earlier all of the time.

where do you work (approximately)?

2011

loyatemu wrote: »

where do you work (approximately)?

More often than not Tallaght.
But I could be sent anywhere in Ireland or sometimes abroad.

lfen

2011 wrote: »

More often than not Tallaght.
But I could be sent anywhere in Ireland or sometimes abroad.

Can I ask what time you leave and arrive at Tallaght? Trying to get an idea of commute time to Sandyford. I’ve used google maps at various time’s throughout the morning and evening but it’s never shown a commute of more than 40 minutes

lfen

Blandpebbles wrote: »

I work in Sandyford and currently live near Donnybrook Fair.

7-7:10am approximately 30 mins to Sandyford.

After that its a sliding scale of 30-40-50 minutes.

Going through the racecourse helps cut down the time.

Any accidents or rain then all bets are off

Thanks so much 😀

awec

I leave Greystones around 8am, do a creche dropoff and hit Sandyford at about 8:45/8:50. If I don't do the creche dropoff you can take 10 mins off that.

ellejay

Blandpebbles wrote: »

I work in Sandyford and currently live near Donnybrook Fair.

7-7:10am approximately 30 mins to Sandyford.

After that its a sliding scale of 30-40-50 minutes.

Going through the racecourse helps cut down the time.

Any accidents or rain then all bets are off

My partner leaves Charlesland at 7.20 and arrives Brewery road Sandyford about 8.30.
But any bit of rain at all and forget it.

I often wonder would there be demand for a private bus to the luas.

Blandpebbles

ellejay wrote: »

My partner leaves Charlesland at 7.20 and arrives Brewery road Sandyford about 8.30.
But any bit of rain at all and forget it.

I often wonder would there be demand for a private bus to the luas.

Finnegans do a bus from Southern Cross

awec

ellejay wrote: »

My partner leaves Charlesland at 7.20 and arrives Brewery road Sandyford about 8.30.
But any bit of rain at all and forget it.

I often wonder would there be demand for a private bus to the luas.

70 minutes seems really long for that journey. Google suggests ~45 mins leaving at that time, even allowing for it being underestimated it's still a long way off 70 mins.

Blandpebbles

awec wrote: »

70 minutes seems really long for that journey. Google suggests ~45 mins leaving at that time, even allowing for it being underestimated it's still a long way off 70 mins.

Agree. I have never experienced that long and i am close to Brewery Road.

What junction are you coming off at? or are you driving down the N11 all the way?

7:20 I would be in by 8am 9 times out of 10.

Cluster

2011 wrote: »

You must drive through very early or very late. Monday to Friday in the morning and evening it gets very contested for people going to work or school. This is the traffic at Blacklion at 7:05 am today.

I moved here from Harolds Cross, traffic also pretty bad. Point being, traffic bad everywhere on certain routes, not confined to Greystones.

I drop the kids off to school and I dont see traffic. I know its bad elsewhere