Climate emergency - why is Dublin Airport expanding???

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882763#Comment_117882763

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport

Almost 75% of transport related Co2 emissions in 2018 were from road traffic. Aviation accounted for less than 12%.

You can't look at a singular journey and determine the overall effect, you have to look at the big picture.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117876093#Comment_117876093

And here's a link to a post with a video of members of the IPCC claiming that a lot of the authors on their reports are not even scientists and also how those with dissenting views on climate change are disregarded and their good names used against thier wishes to bolster the reputation of the alarmist publication:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058203142/climate-change-is-normal-and-welcome-in-my-opinion

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888067#Comment_117888067

business travel is a fraction of what it was, unless hands on practical type of work or training is physically required or very technical training companies are using Zoom, Microsoft Teams and other software... and in the process saving... well if a multinational saving seven figure sums a year...

how do you calculate that specifically 95% of business travel isn’t needed ? thats a pretty big number and generalization...you can’t just throw numbers out there as representative of facts without qualifying it.

the multinational which I worked for business travel did trail off somewhat to the detriment of the quality of work and training, we as trainers were bugging the fûck out of the managers to allow travel, the giddy greens in the management spheres were found out had to go into reverse.

our work was of a practical hands on nature which was only possible to train with in active work experience and classroom settings.

aviation fuel is ‘about’ 600 euros per metric tonne. It’s cheap because of covid, that price will hike...

accord to EU statistics In the EU in 2017, direct emissions from aviation accounted for 3.8% of total CO2 emissions. The aviation sector creates 13.9% of the emissions from transport, making it the second biggest source of transport GHG emissions after road transport.

How about we tax the fûck out of petrol and diesel and motor vehicle sales before we touch the scary sky monsters ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892946#Comment_117892946

I'd have no problem with that idea, but the same people who shout 'we NEED to FLY!!' will be shouting 'we NEED to DRIVE!!'.

This is where Ireland is going to need to integrate a much more efficient nationwide public transport system.

Beechwoodspark

95%+ of business travel is not necessary.

theres a great new invention known as the ...phone, another one known as ...email and another one known as ...zoom/Skype etc.

pre pandemic so much business travel was completely unnecessary but was carried out because of conservative out dated attitudes “that’s the way it’s always been done” or else, a jolly for the staff.

we need serious levies on business travel flights to make it uneconomical for all but the most essential travel which yes even I will agree there is probably 5% of cases where the flight is required.

Podge_irl

It largely depends on your definition of "necessary". Will the world end or people die if its not done - of course not. But many, many business interactions done over phone/zoom are significantly less efficient and productive. We can all throw out numbers pulled from our asses, but you could double the cost of flights from carbon levies and I would probably still be doing 70% of the travel I did pre-pandemic and some of that drop would be just from consolidating multiple trips to one (probably to the detriment of my personal life).

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893225#Comment_117893225

There are whole industries which rely on hands on training, both initial and recurrent to have people legally enabled to do their job. Not best practices but legal requirements.

multiple jobs in aviation, need hands on... initial and recurrent training, yearly...You can impart knowledge to somebody through zoom, or whatever remote training app... but you can’t check and record competencies or give hands on training. Imparting knowledge isn’t training...

When I worked in that industry we headed all over, by aircraft. Aviation industry too. Wouldn’t have been safe to do it any other way.

Beechwoodspark

The main thing is they need to get the levies done. Applied to the carrier, the airport and the individual traveller.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/daa-warns-final-ruling-on-new-runway-restrictions-could-drift-to-2024-1.4678181

looks the daa might be in a bit of bother over the poorly thought out new runway

Beechwoodspark

Just on that, fair play to the local residents for objecting.

must be awful having noisy, polluting flights all hours of the day and night invading your home and personal space.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918083#Comment_117918083

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918085#Comment_117918085

Poorly thought out? Please review the Dublin Airport Authority Consultation on Flight Paths and Permitted Operations from 2016.

Despite the present decline in flights due to Covid restrictions, over the long term the number of flights are going to increase by the end of the decade, before you made your claim did you calculate the extra cost of NOT having the runway due to more fuel burned and greater noise due to having more planes waiting to land flying in arrival stacking loops?

The only significant question I see is how can the noise from take-off over the Malahide flight path be reduced (expected 30% of the time due to wind direction).

Beechwoodspark

Ppl need to realise that due to the climate disaster we are facing into, Anything that delays/cancels further aviation emissions in dublin & ireland is a good thing

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117921016#Comment_117921016

You need to realise that Ireland is a remote island and there are far better things to focus on in Ireland to reduce emissions.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117921016#Comment_117921016

Given the track record of failure from the alarmists projections over the past 50 years and the lack of skill in the computerised climate models, I won't be losing any sleep over climate, you should not either, though if it gets colder over the next 30 years . . . Surely by your own admission that extra runway will logically reduce emissions per passenger by ensuring less time in the air waiting to land or on the ground burning fuel waiting to take off. Will the cost savings from efficiency gained be passed on to the passengers or simply swallowed by the carbon tax increases and in future time savings be reserved for the upper middle income class in Ireland? Rich people do not bear the costs of their luxury beliefs, IMHO everyone with an environmental conscience should travel Gulfstream.

• John Kerry defends taking private jet to accept climate award in Iceland
• Leonardo DiCaprio flies 8,000 miles in private jet to accept ‘green award'

Another consideration is the impact on people who work in the service industry, the lock-downs have been especially harsh on low income earners, all the food preparation, cleaning aircraft between flights, the tourism sector employ people on lower wages. Those cost saving mean that travellers have more money to spend at their end destination improving incomes from those employed to serve them, when the money gets eaten up in higher costs such as inflation, fuel and taxation then opportunities are much less. Another factor you might consider is the arbitrage between countries with different costs of living the cheap seasonal labour to pick vegetables and fruit during the Summer in Ireland arrives here by air and that saving lowers your food bills, food miles is something that concerns vegans a lot, if it gets to expensive they might have to resort to eating meat in future to save the planet.

Here is what flying to the UK in the 1980s cost. Is this the future you want where only politicians and businessmen with expenses allowances can fly?

When television crews were dispatched to interview young Irish people emigrating to London in the bleak 1980s they did not head for Dublin Airport but to Busáras. The very notion that anyone fleeing Irish dole queues in search of work in the UK would be in a position to fly across the Irish Sea was simply absurd.

The cost of the hour-long flight topped £200 which, allowing for inflation, is almost €450 today. The 15-hour bus journey, on the other hand, cost a considerably more modest £40, or €80 in today’s money. Today, a canny flier can frequently get to London for less than a tenner. And we have Open Skies to thank for that.

smurfjed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888067#Comment_117888067

What subsidies are you talking about?

smurfjed

……..

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922941#Comment_117922941

Climate newspeak has its own lexicon. For most of us subsidy means the transfer of money from the taxpayer to an entity by a government, usually with cost benefit analysis that benefits the public and government.

Definition of subsidy

: a grant or gift of money: such as

a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation

b : money granted by one state to another

c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

Definition of newspeak

: propagandistic language marked by euphemism, circumlocution, and the inversion of customary meanings

In climate newspeak NOT taxing fuel is reported as a subsidy, except there is NO transfer of money from the taxpayer to the airline to buy aviation fuel. This same corruption in the meanings of words as commonly understood by the public is also applied to farmers use of "green diesel" and fixing potholes (I am not joking) is counted as subsidy to oil refiners.  

• Airlines enjoy €634m tax break via exemptions for jet fuels

Airlines received the most subsidies through exemptions from excise duty, carbon tax and the National Oil Reserves Agency levy on fuel for commercial and international flights.

Those exemptions were worth €634m in 2019, up from €626m in 2018. The value of free permits allocated to them under the EU’s Emissions Trading Scheme rose from €85.2m in 2018 to €132.3m

Beechwoodspark

So many people recently have said they just cannot believe that dublin airport are looking to expand - they have failed to read the room, the climate comes first.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928790#Comment_117928790

Then you'd want to head over and talk to the Chinese and Indians first. Neither have even reached peak car ownership yet.

cnocbui

There is no climate emergency. Atmospheric CO2 and temperature always rise rapidly just before the onset of glaciation periods within the current Ice Age. If you look at the timing of these glaciation events, the next one is due to occur about now, or might be considered to be slightly overdue. This is why climate scientists changed the name from from of Global Warming to Climate Change, so that they would be able to claim all weather events - including substantial cooling, were caused by CO2 warming.

At the moment, the climate scientists are trying to work out how to convince people that 20th century CO2 output caused the slowing and stopping of the Gulf stream current that keeps Europe from freezing and being as cold as these lattitudes are in Canada. Given it's been slowing for at least a thousand years, they are going to have to get pretty creative with that explanation.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928839#Comment_117928839

Thanks but I’ll listen and take heed of the ...ye know...huge majority of climate science experts from prestigious universities/research centres

and not randomers off boards

Beechwoodspark

It’s telling that some of these “airport cheerleaders” try to bamboozle society with fake news, dodgy science and outright climate denial to try to evade criticism

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928839#Comment_117928839

The term mental gymnastics comes to mind. The "science" will say whatever the money wants it to, being in the business myself, you'd be amazed. Statistics being a very useful "tool". Bringing a "key-opinion-leader" for "dinner" is another one.

So many quotation marks....

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928864#Comment_117928864

In other words, you prefer to let other people do your thinking for you. Don't worry, that seems to be the norm. God fobid that you might actually look at a graph of the timing of glaciation events and how those correspond to global average temperature and CO2 levels - said graphs being produced at said 'prestigious' universities, of course. Also for your peace of mind, make sure to close your eyes tightly if anyone posts a graph of the geological epochs showing the global temperatures and CO2 levels, although perhaps it wouldn't matter, as I doubt you would comprehend what you are seeing anyway, given you have stated you subcontract your thinking to external entities.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929477#Comment_117929477

I’m sure someone is interested in your amateur climatology act but it ain’t me...

good for a laugh though - keep at it

smurfjed

@Beechwoodspark, aviation is known to contribute 2% to our environmental problems, they are using technology to mitigate the increases in these emissions. But what about the other relatively new contributors such as bitcoin mining? Cloud storage, should we ban these new technologies until we get our present climate issues under control?

Larbre34

The Country of China produces 27% of all global emissions on its own. Another small number of individual States bring it up to 50%.

So long as Ireland is pushing our own effort for sustainable energy generation and reduction of motor vehicle emissions, I make no apology for our one major Airport going from one runway to two. We are a small island and need to guarantee our economic prosperity against competition from bigger and more powerful interests.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929846#Comment_117929846

Grounding 90% of flights along with a huge chunk of the worlds economies last year was "still not enough" apparently. I'd be interested to hear what is enough.

Ban volcanic eruptions? ban natural forest fires too? Cull all the wildlife for emitting methane? I'll send Greta a tweet to see what she thinks.

smurfjed

And strangely enough a 2nd runway is actually more environmentally friendly due to the ability to reduce an aircrafts time in the air with enhanced vertical descent profiles.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929846#Comment_117929846

In fairness I would completely ban data mining. It uses crazy amounts of energy