Climate emergency - why is Dublin Airport expanding???

Beechwoodspark

With the huge climate emergency that is ongoing at the moment why is Dublin airport expanding and building another run way?

Ireland has become the second country in the world to declare a climate EMERGENCY.

The decision was made after an amendment to a parliamentary climate action report was agreed by both the Government and the opposition.

Climate change has been described as the greatest challenge facing humanity.

Do Dublin Airport realise There’s more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than any time in human history???

sensors at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii – which has tracked Earth’s atmospheric concentration of CO2 since the late 1950s – detected a CO2 concentration of 415.26 ppm.

The last time Earth's atmosphere contained this much CO2 was more than three million years ago, when sea levels were several metres higher and trees grew at the South Pole.

Scientists have warned that carbon dioxide levels higher than 450ppm are likely to lock in catastrophic and irreversible changes in the climate. Around half of the CO2 emitted since 1750 has been in the last 40 years.

So why are Dublin airport and the aviation industry in Ireland given permission to “carry on regardless” and build another runway?

They should be decreasing their activities there and not ramping up recklessly - at least, until there is carbon neutral aviation.

Every other sector is getting lectures day and night about becoming green this and green that. And no harm. It is an EMERGENCY after all?!?

Beechwoodspark

And this article about the recent Climate Change report is well worth the read to get an understanding of the dire climate issues facing ireland and the world

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/latest-ipcc-report-catastrophe/619698/

0ph0rce0

Expanding to make more money. These people couldn't give a fiddlers **** about the climate no matter how much they pretend.

Allinall

I think they’re planning on using electric planes in the future.

Just need to sort out the charging points.

Because we live in an island and everyone wants to travel?

silverharp

Remind me how many new coal powered electricity plants the Chinese are bringing on stream each year?

Hardly an emergency. Climate change is an issue, but we're hardly facing the end of the world next month or next year. (In any case, the damage has been done for Ireland with rising sea levels, and it won't be Ireland's efforts to combat climate change that have any impact... likely we'd be fucked even if every other nation stopped producing pollution today)

As for Airports, OP, have you been campaigning for the huge airports across Europe to downsize their operations? Try Amsterdam, which has over 37k more flights than Dublin.

We're ranked 42 according to this list for number of flights in Europe...

Atlantic Dawn

Aviation represents 2% of global CO2 emissions, build away.

https://www.iaa.ie/who-we-are/aviation-and-the-environment

ghoulfinger

There is a real climate crisis in hand, that can hardly be disputed. But we are an island and haven’t the option of building train lines to span the sea to continental Europe. We are also on the western periphery of Euro-Asia before the long hop across the pond. In past decade or so, there has only been one active runway at Dublin Airport with airplanes in wait for both landing and takeoff. A second runway doubles the potential operational capacity, but moreover provides an added safety factor without aircraft competing for a space in the case of emergency events.

magicbastarder

IIRC PP for the runway was granted in 2017, before ireland had declared a climate emergency (which has had sod all effect anyway); and you'd hardly expect an airport of all places to get an attack of conscience about CO2 emissions.

also, CO2 emitted by international flights from ireland does not count towards calculations of ireland's CO2 emissions; the vast majority of flights to or from dublin are international i would hazard.

might be better asking why are data centres being given the green light left, right, and centre, after the climate emergency was declared. or why the national herd has increased by something like 100,000 cattle in the last year.

Strumms

We are an island nation..

It’s expanding because there is a demand for more flights..

the catalyst for this is the ever increasing population on the island..

the price of flying has decreased..

the demand for movement of people and express cargo is high...

jmlad2020

This ^^^^^^^^

Never been a better time to build an extra runway that might be needed in the future. Pre covid levels of travel should be returning in the coming years and a with a growing population it makes sense.

Cows produce more Co2 than air travel anyways. Relax. Air travel will become more efficient and less polluting in the near future.

Atlantic Dawn

We are shipping beef to China ffs, plenty more higher emitting industries need a swift kick up the hole to make them see sense in what they are doing before aviation.

Del2005

Don't worry we'll run out of drinking water long before we boil. Ireland has a tiny impact on the environment compared to the countries draining fossil aquifers, desalinating water and building massive diesel powered militaries.

We need an airport because we are an island nation. Better to go after the 100 companies that produce 70% of emissions than cut ourselves off from the world.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

MBE220d

We keep hearing about rising tides also, yet they are going to build thousands of homes on the old glass bottle site right beside the sea, are they going to build them on stilts, funny no mention of that anywhere, maybe that area won't be affected for some reason.

Capt'n Midnight

Over long distances flying uses less energy than other forms of travel.

BobHopeless

It's tough for people to admit it but deep down they don't give a hoot about climate emergency's etc... If people really cared they'd sell the car, stop buying fast fashion, stop eating beef, stop flying etc.. Iv'e made my peace with it and just except the coming sh1tstorm

"Ireland has become the second country in the world to declare a climate EMERGENCY."

And?

Our politicians engaged in a bit of totally pointless virtue signalling doing this. Then they moved on to something else.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117878504#Comment_117878504

The 100 company thing is an utter nonsense stat. BP don't "produce" emissions for fun, they do it cause there is demand. It is the the absolute height of trying to abdicate personal responsibility.

As to Dublin Airport, we cannot realistically create high speed rail links to Europe so it is the only option.

Bloody right, we're an island and we need to get on and off it.

Imagine they banned all the airports and stopped ferries and be stuck in this kip of a place permanent.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117878594#Comment_117878594

which forms of travel?

google maps shows me paris to rome is 1,450km; my (petrol) car would do that at approx 120g/km, or 174kg of CO2; 350kg for the return trip.

i tried 3 online calculators for the plane flight, and they estimated between 310KG and 450KG for the return trip - per person. add a second occupant to the car and the CO2 per person drops to roughly half that of the plane flight. trains will beat it hands down, as will a bus; in short, planes are fast, not efficient.

(edited as i forgot to specify the second calculation was for air travel)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879039#Comment_117879039

You really need to travel if you consider Ireland to be a kip.

VinLieger

20 US livestock companies are responsible for the same levels of methane as Germany, France or the UK.... but yes its Dublin airport thats the real problem.......

Pa ElGrande

You have not been paying attention it's the Irish States and EUs policies that are harming us, not the weather. Power shortages are inevitable due to the pursuit of current policies.

1. In pursuit of this climate crusade we are phasing out reliable sources of electricity generation. The island (including NI) has 5510 MW nameplate win turbine capacity installed. If you have been watching throughout the Summer wind turbine output has been frequently below 100MW. The state policy is to have 70% random generated power by 2030.
2. Fields are beginning to be covered with Solar panels, 200MW scheme under construction in Meath. Solar can only work during the day and the output from the end of November to January is pathetic (see what happens to Solar in Germany during Winter)
3. Irelands peak demand for electricity was reached last December 2020.
4. In Germany when the subsidies end the wind turbine operators go broke.
5. EirGrid said it expects data centres to account for 15% of total energy demand by 2026. Data centers are buying up the capacity.
6. Our electricity prices are only going up and we are destabilising the grid as we load it with more random generated power.
7. A 700MW HVDC cable is being built to France to tap into reliable nuclear generated power. The cable will be ~500 KM long. The installation and maintenance cost for that will be paid by electricity consumers in Ireland.
8. The yes men for random energy schemes keep spinning the story that Ireland will be the Saudi Arabia or random generated power and that we will be able to offset the costs by exporting power to Europe. Power can only be sold when it is demanded and random generated energy cannot always be supplied which means that often it will be "given" away while Irish consumers underwrite the costs via subsidies. The experience of Germanys energy transition (energiewende) is instructive, random generated sources do not command a premium and are sold cheaply (even given away) while peak demand power from reliable sources (coal & gas commands a premium price).
9. The more random energy put on the grid the harder and more expensive it becomes to maintain stability leading to inevitable load shedding
10. Due to a recent surge in gas prices Eirgrid has stopped exports to the UK. Two gas plants are currently offline here in Ireland.
11. The climate action plan will see the cost of houses rise further due to specification inflation.
12. Oil fired boilers in new homes are banned from 2022 with gas fired boilers in new homes being banned from 2025. The alternative being pushed are heat pumps which are more expensive to operate. In the Britain the government has rolled back on this due to voter dissatisfaction.
13. Irish consumers are being forced off consuming primary sources of heat energy (coal, gas & oil) for a single secondary source (electricity). The average yearly temperature in this country is ~10C
14. Have you received your personalised carbon allowance yet? No you have not, it's being floated in the background. Obviously no government in their right mind is going to introduce that today, the technocrats will get there eventually.
15. What about financial shenanigans? Did you know the ECB bought 70% of Irish bond debt during the pandemic? Have you heard of Green bonds? The ECB holds about 20% of all green bonds and they want to exclude them from deficit and debt limit calculations.

What needs to happen to avoid future substantial economic disruption due to the lack of electricity.

• An immediate suspension by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU) till further notice of Renewable Electricity Support System auction (RESS) auctions. If wind turbine or solar panel operators want to build new sites, let them do so without guaranteed subsidies
• An "intermittentcy surcharge" to be imposed on wind and solar power, so that they pay the cost of providing standby power.
• A rule insisting that all new wind and solar plants include sufficient storage to supply nameplate capacity for, say, one week.
• Abolition of carbon pricing, which has distorted market mechanisms, and is largely responsible across Europe for the massive rise in energy prices this year.
• Immediate suspension of moves to electric cars and heat pumps.
• Abandoning strategic plans which rely heavily on imported power, and replacement with plans which prioritise the provision of sufficient, reliable home grown power.

Beechwoodspark

There needs to be a green levy imposed on all flights, green taxes on the carriers themselves and also a significant levy on the airports - dependant on their flight numbers.

There also needs to be a levy on each ticket that the passenger pays.

Ultra cheap tickets from @budget airlines” need to be consigned to the dustbin of pre climate emergency history

business travel should be discouraged as much as possible (no need for 95%+ of it) and also “casual” cheap holiday travel needs to be completely phased out - make it expensive via the levy system - ppl will choose to staycation (ideally in eco tourism settings) and holiday abroad in lower numbers and frequency will reduce.

This tax and levy funding then should be funnelled by Govt into ring fenced specific green tech R&D.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879400#Comment_117879400

Why not have the same for trains and buses? It's not like trains don't have an environmental impact, especially if it's a high speed line.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879400#Comment_117879400

The first part is a good way of stopping poor people flying. It won't be popular.

95% of business travel is unnecessary? How do you work that out? Iv done a fair bit and none of it was done for fun I assure you.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879040#Comment_117879040

You've found the break even point.

On longer trips the plane wins. Driving by car also wears the tyres and you have to use more facilities en-route.

Ryanair claim 66g per passenger / km , a 1,450km trip would be 191Kg CO2

Trains are great but expensive. In the UK HS2 will cost over £100Bn !

Note : As we are on an island you'd need to factor in the ferries too if doing Paris to Dublin.

Electric trains or proper electric cars vs. something like ammonia fuelled aircraft would be another discussion.

Jinglejangle69

I couldn't care less if they build 10 runways.

But taxing ordinary people for the greens utopia vision while they preside over a new runway doesn't sit right with me.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881156#Comment_117881156

you would, if it meant you couldnt live here

yup, the neoliberal/neoclassical approach of taxation most certainly wont work to solve this one, states are just gonna have to suck it up, and start running budget deficits from now on

oh and expanding the airport is good for the economy, hence good for the environment, or something something something......

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881156#Comment_117881156

It’s a much bigger issue than specific to the greens.

Eric Cartman

Because people need air travel and cargo and thankfully most of us believe in climate change but dont believe the extremists in this world who claim its an imminent threat.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881683#Comment_117881683

...because it is an imminent treat, this is becoming more and more evident year to year

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881156#Comment_117881156

For the last time I can find readily available data (2016) from the IATA, "System-wide, airlines carried 4.1 billion passengers on scheduled services, an increase of 7.3% over 2016, representing an additional 280 million trips by air." and by 2036 IATA projects 7.8 billion passengers, since the local population has crossed the 5 million mark for the first time since 1851, it's a fair assessment that another runway is needed unless in future you would prefer to land at Shannon and take the high speed rail back to Dublin.

The Greens are watermelons, green on the outside, red in the centre. They are NOT TO BE TRUSTED. All they want is your vote, only then will you find out how bad it can be under their rule. Their growth can be traced back to the collapse of the Soviet Union where a new vehicle was needed to replace communism, ecology was chosen. Ultimately, the Greens are just one specific form in which anti-capitalism today articulates itself. The panic-mongering about the imminent end of the world is simply a pretext for reorganizing the economy into a control and command system.

None of our politicians can tell you what the ideal temperature is for life on earth and quantify how the enforcement of their policies will achieve that. As an example it is clear to all who want to take the time to look that mandating an electrical grid to be powered by 70% random energy by 2030 will necessarily result in an unstable grid and Eirgrid has been warning about this. Yet many people are so far stuck up their asses that they have concocted a climate emergency in their heads that bears no relation to reality and are stuck in groupthink.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8350XaGeZY

As an example of how out of touch with human welfare these people are see the UN Levels and Trends in Child Mortality: 2020 Report How many of the 5.2 million were caused by the "climate emergency"? Compared with the past with some exceptions mainly due to war all the human welfare metrics indicate improvement in the standard of living of humans. For context how many millions lose their lives every year due to adverse weather events?.

The report documents remarkable progress in child survival over the past three decades. The global number of deaths among children under the age of five dropped from 12.5 million in 1990 to 5.2 million in 2019, the lowest level on record.

There are ~40 million abortions per annum this is not caused by the "climate emergency".

Over 4 million deaths have Corona virus attributed as a factor in their cause of death, that's not the "climate emergency".

It is estimated that 80% of the global population live on less than $10 per day. We currently have access to a stable electricity supply in this country, however across the globe 2.6 billion don't as yet.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881849#Comment_117881849

Have you read your IPCC climate bible today?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7BzdE5iYi8

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881960#Comment_117881960

beleive it or not, the ipcc isnt picking up on everything, its main economic contributors work, is currently being shredded to pieces, they dont understand how much trouble we re in, particularly in regards the impact of climate change, and our global economy. so, we really are in deep sh1t!

PokeHerKing

Why stop with the airport. Why are people still allowed to have kids? Why are we burying the dead when they could be turned into oil?

joseywhales

Anything to be said for a modern nuclear reactor or two? I couldn't imagine a better solution to reducing fossil fuel consumption and having predictable reliable power production.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881978#Comment_117881978

How much fat could you render from a human? Hardly viable.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882052#Comment_117882052

It's going to be the only solution in the future.

Anyone with half a brain knows it.

Probably not our generation.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881976#Comment_117881976

There is an old joke about economists that seems apt in relation to climate alarmism.

A mathematician, an accountant and an economist apply for the same job.

The interviewer calls in the mathematician and asks "What do two plus two equal?" The mathematician replies "Four." The interviewer asks "Four, exactly?" The mathematician looks at the interviewer incredulously and says "Yes, four, exactly."

Then the interviewer calls in the accountant and asks the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The accountant says "On average, four - give or take ten percent, but on average, four."

Then the interviewer calls in the economist and poses the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The economist gets up, locks the door, closes the shade, sits down next to the interviewer and says, "What do you want it to equal"?

From seven years ago. Richard Tol an economist claimed the IPCC 5th assessment report had been altered to be more alarmist, with scientists playing to the crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8lCWDeoWzo

magicbastarder

You've found the break even point.

but that's not what i asked. and even if i was to believe ryanair's claims, a dual occupancy car still beats the plane.

if a dual occupancy car (and a car is one of the most inefficient ways to move people around) beats a plane, my question stands - you claimed that flying uses less energy than other forms of travel. which forms?

all i see is a fight for last place between cars and planes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881156#Comment_117881156

the new runway construction started well over a year before they got back into government. i don't think you can pin this on them.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882774#Comment_117882774

Shhh, don't try to ruin the fun of the "bash the Greens" brigade.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117878720#Comment_117878720

The climate emergency is too abstract. It requires good faith from massive competing economies and societies around the world. So far there has been little more than a scouts honour type commitments from the major economies. No doubt we are f*uked.

the levels of carbon dioxide currently in the atmosphere are many multiples the levels they were when the last great warming period occurred. Which was believed to be caused by volcanic activity setting fire to a massive exposed pre historic coal seam. I mean how many coal seams has humanity burned in the last 200 years?

unless the world is literally on fire in front of people’s eyes you will not get universal commitment and buy in from people on this.

The pandemic has proved this in stark reality.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882364#Comment_117882364

funny you mention tol's work, as its his work thats been shredded to pieces, along side his butty nordhaus, neither have a clue about their professional fields

Pussyhands

It amuses me when people talk about Ireland becoming a nanny state, government telling us what we can and can't do. And then on the other hand, people whinging the government aren't doing enough to stop us doing the things we want to do.

It's supply and demand. People are voting with their feet. Dublin Airport is expanding because people will fly more.

I had to cringe at some Green TD on the radio the other week. They were asked do they want to see more tourists or less tourists coming to Ireland considering Irelands economy depends so much on tourism. Their answer was pure rubbish, along the lines of "we want more tourists, but more sustainable...so instead of people coming here for 2 or 3 days and going on a flight again, they stay for longer". Really? How does that lower emissions on flights?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883490#Comment_117883490

the greens a bit lost in regards maintaining our economy, and protecting our environment, such is the extent of the problem

Pussyhands

To be honest, I'd rather continue on as we are with cheap flights etc instead of cost the average person out of everything just to reduce emissions where the end result is still climate change anyways.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883504#Comment_117883504

disagree strongly, our governments are virtually completely lost in regards how to maintain functioning economies, and tackling our environmental problems simultaneously, we need a new, and completely radical change in how we approach these problems, our governments arent ready for that yet, continually defaulting to what they know, it wont work. for example, continuing to move the bulk of taxation towards citizens wont work, governments, and ultimately state financial institutions, need to step up to the mark, we also need to create new, purpose orientated state institutions to do so, again, we re not ready for these moves yet