Why are convicted murderers granted entry to Ireland

Mrs OBumble

I wonder if we are nett exporters or importers of serious criminals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870407#Comment_117870407

lol

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870432#Comment_117870432

I believe that EU should have the right to refuse entry to foreign criminals ,and vice versa ,

We have a right to be protected and other states should have the same rights to protect their own citizens from from criminals .

I don't buy into this bleeding heart nonsense let's not deport foreign criminals ,

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870516#Comment_117870516

What constitutes 'foreign' non-Irish or non-EU ?

This is a local village for local people. Why should we have to put up with blackguards from the next village/parish/town/county.....

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870581#Comment_117870581

Both EU and non EU ,

Why ? would want to let one in because they are from within the EU and say no to the one from outside the EU .

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870435#Comment_117870435

@Mrs OBumble I believe our prison population is something like 18/19 % non nationals now ,and our population of immigrants is still growing year on year ,

Be interested to see how many of our citizens are currently locked up in EU states,

Apparently 1200 currently serving sentences abroad spread between the EU , America and Australia ,but the majority are currently in UK prisons some 70% of the total

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870615#Comment_117870615

Because it goes hand in hand with Irish not having to apply for a visa to go on their sun or ski holiday and spend ages going through passport control for a mini break or apply for work or residency permits to work and live in another EU country.

We (the EU) have been eliminating barriers to freedom of movement within the EU since the first Schengen agreement in the mid '80s.

Jequ0n

Ireland is certainly more relaxed than some other EU countries when it comes to passport control and identity/ criminal history checks. I can see why people are annoyed about it but it certainly has benefits and I prefer it over a police state.

2ndcoming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871016#Comment_117871016

This is nonsense. EU citizens have freedom of movement, the first about 5 replies to this thread all point this out.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871048#Comment_117871048

How many countries have you visited where nobody bothered to look at your passport/ ID and just waves you through, instead of actually checking your details?

I personally have never been asked or had my details checked by immigration control in Ireland. Ironically when travelling back to my home country I am usually delayed by detail checking/ questioning of details. It inconveniences me, but makes perfect sense from a safety perspective.

Topgear on Dave

It'd not that we're granting entry really as such. We just don't really have a clue who's here or keep track I think.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871061#Comment_117871061

I have never had my details checked entering any EU country, aside from them looking at my passport. Including Ireland.

This whole area is kind of difficult. When a criminal moves from Dublin to rural Mayo, nobody tells the local Gardai. When they move from Frankfurt to Dublin, nobody tells the local Gardai.

If you introduce a system whereby someone's criminal history is automatically alerted to the local police forces when they move through the EU, then you're tagging them and singling them out for harassment after they've served their sentence. Which is anathema to the entire point.

But at the same time it seems insane that violent former offenders aren't automatically known to local police as they move around.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872351#Comment_117872351

There are many times that nobody even wanted to look at my passport (Dublin airport) and just waved me through. Very strange practice.

As I said this suits me well, but i am still surprised that nobody in Ireland seems interested in my past at all.

LostinBlanch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870273#Comment_117870273

Like both you and Archfi mentioned, EU states have the right to deport EU citizens to their own country. Ditto for non EU citizens. They have always had that right, and some states do so, Germany is one that comes to mind.

2ndcoming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871061#Comment_117871061

I have never come into Dublin Airport or any non UK airport without having my passport checked on arrival. Except the US where you do the pre-clearance in Dublin.

That said my passport wouldn't show anyone my criminal background anyway. It says European Union on the front, that's all it needs to say.

Pauliedragon

I don't know how the visa system works for non EU citizens but someone coming from the EU wouldn't need a police check so how would anybody know? If I got out of jail after a murder sentence and decided to head off to France or Germany would they check my record on arrival. I assume they wouldn't.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875911#Comment_117875911

Dublin airport has been the only one I came across where nobody bothered to check and just waved me through. That’s why I find it ironic that my passport is checked (inspected, then details checked via computer, often accompanied or followed by some questions).

Maybe I just look incredibly trustworthy then.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870045#Comment_117870045

The EU needs reform in all sorts of ways, the point raised is an excellent one.

We should be able to keep criminals out of our country no matter where they come from.

We have enough to deal with among our own.

Not dealing with these matters and simply saying "but the EU..." is not going to work long term.

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872351#Comment_117872351

For convicted murderers I'd say flag away. Then after if it's found that they are being unfairly harassed we can deal with that, rather than not flagging because they might be harassed. Their crime is too serious to completely ignore.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884072#Comment_117884072

But if they're convicted, it means they have been found guilty and served their time.

if there concerns over certain criminals, that would be sent to law enforcement through Interpol or europol.

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884098#Comment_117884098

But if they're convicted, it means they have been found guilty and served their time.

I get where you're coming from, but here's just my thoughts on this: In exchange for serving their time they're no longer in prison. But they've now shown themselves to be in a small, high risk group. If we aren't going to keep an eye on that group I don't know what the feck we're doing honestly.

We're talking about convicted murderers here so I think empathy for them should be pretty low. If putting the authorities on alert to them results in them being harassed in someway (which isn't even a certainty) then so be it. If that happening it should be dealt with, but if the alternative is to let a known murderer go undetected I think it's the much lesser of too evils.

I understand, but murderers come in many different sizes, if you will!

There are dangerous criminals, convicted of murders and other crimes I would be confident that information about them is shared throughout Europe through certain agencies.

there are also, regular people who have committed murders, even in this country, completely out of character, with no other offences in their lives. Those people deserve to try to live their lives the best they can, after they have served their sentence.

Also, harassing people because they have been in prison is completely wrong, I can't imagine any guard wanting to lose their job over that!

touts

The problem is if we did something like make it difficult for Criminals to commit crime how would the Criminal Justice Industry make their massive profits. If teams of solicitors and barristers cannot charge fees for the same serious criminal 100+ times then that means we will have to introduce a massive amount of new Criminal legislation to create tens of thousands of new crimes for ordinary people to commit to make up the difference. And think of the knock on impact on sectors such as Michelen Stared Resturants, Executive Estate Agents, BMW dealers, etc. If we cracked down on Crime then the damage to the economy of Dublin 4 would be earth shattering.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884098#Comment_117884098

"But if they're convicted, it means they have been found guilty and served their time." Wrong!!

At least in Ireland, the mandatory sentence for murder is a life sentence. If someone is released from jail after murdering someone, they are released on license. They can be returned to prison at any time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885539#Comment_117885539

Yes. In Ireland. And they have done their time in prison and then allowed out. They can not be returned 'at any time'

How many have you heard of being sent back?

Of course, doesn't apply to other European countries.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871016#Comment_117871016

I agree that the entry to Ireland isn't exactly strict - I think I've been asked questions once or twice, and a few times they didn't even bother to look at my passport. But since Ireland isn't a Schengen country, there's passport control at the departing airport for air travellers as well. Most EU countries are in Schengen, so anyone travelling to Ireland by air would be checked more than people heading to other EU destinations.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886732#Comment_117886732

Murder is a mandatory LIFE sentence in Ireland. They are released on license and can be returned to prison at any time. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it any less of a fact. They have not done their time.

"Of course, doesn't apply to other European countries." - Germany also releases prisoners on license, Italy too, Netherlands life is life with no parole for murder. France and Italy seem very lax although their sentencing is a lot harsher than Ireland, 21+ years for a murder. So it would apply to some other EU countries.

I'm well aware of the mandatory life sentence, thanks.

they cannot just be sent back, at any time, they must breach the conditions of their licence.

some European countries do release on licence, some sentence murderers to a fixed sentence.

I'm not sure what difference it makes?

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888409#Comment_117888409

They literally get a signed statement on release stating that "you may be recommitted at any time, at the discretion of the DoJ" or words to that effect. I've seen one. But of course, as usual, Bubbly on Boards, knows more than the Department of Justice and everyone else. 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888446#Comment_117888446

At the discretion of the doj, if they breach the terms of their licence.

Lol, so you think they are out grabbing random murderers off the streets and throwing them back into prison? 😂