Ireland / England education systems - understand differences

Scocatic

Hello - recently moved from London to Dublin and my kids are happily settled in their new Irish schools. They seem much more at ease and less stressed out about the school experience, no regrets at all about the move.

There are some things I can't get my head around with the Irish system. I've only ever known the English system and am guilty of seeing things through that lens. I know from looking at the OECD data that educational outcomes in Ireland are just as good, if not better, than the English system. But I'm still curious about the differences.

Was wondering if anyone out there who knows both systems, or has maybe taught in both, knows the answer to any of my questions below. (Sorry, some aren't about primary, but the majority are so put the post here).

1 - In the end, do all children attending Irish schools do the same number of years of school? In England, everyone starts at the same age and does either 12 or 14 years (it's 12 years if they leave after GCSEs at 16). I'm confused by the fact that some children start at 4 and some at 5 in Ireland, and also by the fact that some kids do transition year and some don't.

2 - I know that not every kids does Transition Year. Do kids that choose not to/miss out do a year less of school, or do they spend the time doing extra school work or catching up on old stuff?

3 - English and Maths levels seem very different. In these subjects, my kids are learning things they learned 18 months ago in England. For example, my ten year old came home today with '2 times table' homework, which she was doing at 8 in England. I'm not saying one system is better than other, and obviously she learns Irish here as well which is how some class time is used. Assuming that they cover much the same academic ground in both countries by the time they are 18, what happens - does the Irish systems start to move faster as they enter secondary school?

4 - School days are an hour shorter here. Lunch breaks are a bit shorter but not that much. In England, there's this attitude that every second of the school year counts and there simply isn't enough time for everything. Do Irish schools cover less material, or teach more efficiently, or something else?

Hope questions aren't too vague, I appreciate any info or advice people have. Really keen to understand the differences. As said above, am really not trying to say one system better or worse than others. I certainly don't miss England's Ofsted inspections, the SATs, the abysmal academy system, or pointless, endless homework for 5 and 6 year olds...

shesty

I am not massively familiar with the UK system, so my answers are only based on what I know from the Irish system (been through it and my kids are now in it) and having UK friends with kids at the same stage as mine in the system.

1. In Ireland, typically most kids continue to Leaving Cert. So it's Junior Infants to 6th class primary (about age 5 to about age 12), then 1st year to 6th year secondary (about age 12/13 to about age 17/18). The Junior cert is done in 3rd year (around age 15), the Leaving cert is done in 6th year (about age 18). The majority of kids follow that path, it would be unusual enough for people to drop out after the Junior Cert (it does happen, but I think it will often be investigated if it does).
2. Not doing Transition Year means that you move from 3rd year straight into 5th year and do your LC a year earlier then. It's not a year out or anything, it's just keep going but skip a year. The LC course is mainly covered in 5th and 6th year - Transition Year (4th year) itself is designed as kind of a breather, where students will often try other modules, do work experience, try out community stuff, often put on plays or shows and the like.
3. Big caveat here from me that my understanding is incomplete here. From what I understand (and to paraphrase how a teacher friend described it), the Irish system builds the scaffolding wider, so basically moves slower. So for example I had a friend with a kid in Reception year in the UK when mine was in JI here. They only learn 1-5 in Junior infants. They manipulate the numbers in many more different ways (as I understand it), while the kid in the UK was being told to learn to count from 1-20, then do it in 2s, then do it in 3s. My kiddo was only going 1 - 5, but was concentrating on adding and subtracting items, writing the numbers, and generally fully understanding what they were doing in that time. I am not explaining this well, I know, someone with more background in it can explain it better than me! The Irish system is wider and covers a larger breadth of subjects - how many subjects are covered in the secondary school in the UK up to GCSE? I'm not sure what the current count is but when I did my Junior Cert, I did 15 exams for that Cert. It might be around 10 now that are compulsory. 6 exams must be taken for the Leaving Cert, the majority sit 7 exams. English, Irish, Maths are compulsory, and possibly a foreign language also for most students. After that you choose your own remaining subjects. Some kids will sit 8 or 9 but purely their own choice.
4. I can't answer the day thing to be honest. All I know is there are a lot of subjects to be covered here and with bigger classes, and just one teacher, it's a lot of work. Our secondary days are long enough, how long would they be in the UK? Here a normal secondary day would be maybe 9 -4 ish, give or take 20 mins or so, and there mightn't be a long lunch in there. I suspect it balances out over time

Apologies if that's not the most helpful, but I hope it gives you some information.

Edited to add - I actually think I did 10 JC subjects. When I think about it!!

@shesty

The Irish system is as @shesty said on a wider scaffolding. At second level it’s quite different. For the first three years (junior cert) they do 10 exam subjects. Irish, English, Maths, History, Science are compulsory as is a foreign language in the vast majority of schools. Other subjects are optional - business, home ec., woodwork, metalwork, art, music. Drama and IT are not available as subjects at second level as in England but digital skills are integrated as part of every subject curriculum now. IT is integrated but this is a new development. Apart from that there are other personal development classes that are not examined - CSPE (Civil, Social and Political Education), SPHE (Social Personal Health Education), PE (Physical Education) and Religion.

At Leaving Cert level students have 7 subjects on their school timetable and the they use their 6 best for university entry here. That’s much more broad than England. Irish, English and Maths are compulsory with a foreign language also compulsory in most schools. They then choose other subjects such as chemistry, biology, physics, history, geography, construction, home Ec., art, etc. giving them a timetable with seven subjects. They do PE, religion and career guidance as non exam classes also. Some schools now offer PE as an exam subject but not many and it is compulsory for everyone as a non exam subject.

About half of Irish secondary schools are Catholic with some Protestant schools. They do 3 religion classes per week (some do less).

The other half are community schools (multi-denominational) etc. and they do one religion class per week.

All secondary schools do the same number of hours per week but it’s up to them how they set this out. Some do hour long classes, some do 40 minute classes. Some do 9.00 - 4 four days a week and finish a half day Friday or Wednesday. Some finish around three every day instead and have no half day.