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Tenant overholding

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,654 ✭✭✭ Claw Hammer
    Registered User


    They only go back to 2014. I was trying to find a 2012 case a few minutes ago and it is not available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭ redarmyblues
    Registered User


    How do you remove your name from the RTB database?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian
    Registered User


    So obviously the tenant is 100% in the wrong messing they're unlikely to take their case to the RTB

    Why do you want them out exactly? Are they messy? Not paying rent? Damaging the premises? Keeping your neighbors up all night? Are you selling the place?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User


    Course they will go to the RTB.

    Taking the case drags it out another 3~6 months. They won't actually turn up. The LL will do all the paperwork, dot the i's cross the T's.

    Interesting to note that its the Landlords who fund the RTB. Not the tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,578 ✭✭✭ whippet
    Registered User


    the reasons for issuing termination is irrelevant as long as it is done within the onerous confines of the law.

    The tenant has nothing to lose by referring to the RTB and dragging it out as regardless of the outcome they won't have any repercussions of not abiding by a determination order.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian
    Registered User


    The reason is always relevant in the context of why a landlord would want a tenant out, especially since this particular landlord isn't saying

    One repercussion I can think of, for the tenant, is that he's unlikely to get a reference from his landlord for a futureif he's overholding... You'd be surprised how significant that can be in this day and age!

    There's also a possibility that the tenant doesn't have a place to go yet so what's he/she to do realistically?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭ nothing
    Registered User


    My neighbours had an eviction notice, on antisocial behaviour grounds, and should have left 4 months ago. The agency guy asked them last month when they were leaving. They said they weren't. It's baffling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User



    Do search on daft or similar and find a place that they can afford. Showing 1,935 Properties to Rent at the moment.

    If they can't afford it, (and there no reason to believe they can't)



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below
    Registered User


    My reason is a genuine and relevant cause and an affidavit of same has been signed and included in the notice of termination.


    The tenants homeplace is 8km away where he can stay if the 7 months notice didn't give him enough notice to find a place. He's a single tenant on hap in a 2 bed property, he's been told to look for house shares as renting an entire property as a hap applicant might be difficult to find.


    Oh yeah, I won't be surprised if he takes an rtb case on the last day to drag things out. Well I've done my homework and based on his responses any adjudicator won't look on him favourably in an unlawful eviction. It's a complete joke of a system both HAP and RTB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik
    Registered User


    You contact the RTB and ask them to remove it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,578 ✭✭✭ whippet
    Registered User


    If the OP is following the correct legal framework in terminating a tenancy it isn’t relevant. The problem is with the enforcement mechanism in Ireland where everything is stacked in the tenant’s favour.

    My advice to the OP is to work with your solicitor in following the process and be prepared for months of disappointment.

    Back when I was trying to deal with my tenant I had engaged my solicitor and was preparing for the long expensive drawn out process but due to luck was I spared the additional months and months of pain.

    I also considered all the other ‘advise’ and methods from friends and relatives - but ultimately my solicitor told me to ignore them as I would only end up forking out money and getting myself in to more trouble



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian
    Registered User


    Again, strange that you don't say the reason

    There's 2 ways of going about it that I can see

    1 - change the locks and expect to defend yourself against the RTB, there's no obligation to pay for a week in an Airbnb or similar and the tenants deposit can be held against any damages or cleaning etc etc

    2 - make a complaint to the RTB if your reason is indeed genuine they will eventually evict the tenant and until the date he goes you are eligible for rent

    Either way gives you the same result if your reasoning is indeed genuine. The question is do you want the RTB on your side or the tenants side and can you wait another few months for him to move out, while paying you rent of course?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian
    Registered User


    The RTB aren't all that good for tenants either

    We challenged a rental increase once as we felt the landlord hadn't properly shown examples of where rent is similar in their notice (pre-RPZ rules) and the RTB found in favour of our landlord, not only that but we were also ordered to backpay the increase



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭ Cuddlesworth
    Registered User


    7k, like others have said the RTB site and search tool is beyond useless. You cannot trust what it returns. It really depends on the circumstances, but it might not be cost prohibitive to evict without a RTB order.

    Also, technically the tenant has the right to break right back into the property and there is nothing you can do about that. Its worth thinking about how that situation would just escalate when your the one with assets and money and they are not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian
    Registered User


    Also, technically the tenant has the right to break right back into the property and there is nothing you can do about that. Its worth thinking about how that situation would just escalate when your the one with assets and money and they are not.

    Good point worth noting



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,578 ✭✭✭ whippet
    Registered User


    I’d accept that - however - you can be sure that the enforcement of a determination order from the RTB is much easier as a tenant than a landlord.

    It’s a flawed system that does not serve the purpose that it should.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below
    Registered User


    This is why I take comments from Boards.ie with a pinch of salt.


    It is a criminal offence for a tenant to break into any property including a property that the landlord changed the locks. This is according to a criminal defence solicitor and a Garda!

    What a ridiculous comment !



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ Jmc25
    Registered User


    Would you genuinely propose tenants co-fund the RTB? Genuinely now, at a time of record high rents is that something that you think would be desirable?

    Leaving aside whether that's a good or fair idea, in practical terms we all know that the same tenants that cause hassle and take up the RTBs time would be the ones who would refuse to pay and get away with it.

    Similarly, generally the worst landlords are the ones who don't register with the RTB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭ spaceHopper
    Registered User


    Do they not still use the city west hotel for people with nowhere to self isolate



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User



    How do you think the LLs pay it except with the rent. All these taxes and fees are just added to rent. Those high rents....!

    The system being heavily biased is kind of a disincentive to those it biased against though.

    For example a tenant can use it even if they aren't registered. Not so a LL. Double standards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User



    You might be asked to put them back in the property if they've been evicted illegally though.

    Good luck getting the Garda to do anything in a tenancy dispute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below
    Registered User


    Being asked to let them in and "technically the tenant has the right to break back in" are completely different scenarios!


    Whoever suggested a tenant "technically has the right to break back in " , I would seriously worry about their interpretation of the law.

    That's boards.ie for you though !



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User


    It might end up being the same thing in the end though.

    All you really want to spend the least amount of money to achieve your end goal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below
    Registered User


    I don't think it's the same thing, in fact it's complete opposites!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump
    Registered User



    "Your honour, I came home and my key wasn't working and I needed to get into the house because I had left the oven on. I was not made aware that the landlord had changed the locks and I only thought that my key wasn't working. I also needed to get my special medication that I have to take every 4 hours or I die so it was an emergency".



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump
    Registered User


    That's unlucky. But as with anything in life, there is a risk-reward payoff. You don't make a risk-free rate of return on property. Because it's not risk free. A landlord with a small number of properties cannot diversify the risk of tenants overholding precisely due to being a small landlord. But there should not be additional compensation (in the form of greater return) for that idiosyncratic risk. The result is just that some landlords get stung with all the pain and some luckily get off without noticing it at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,620 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump
    Registered User



    Ah, you haven't heard about the Irish legal system I take it 😉



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,578 ✭✭✭ whippet
    Registered User


    There in lies the problem - a small landlord pays full PAYE rates of taxation on all rental derived income yet is afforded none of the protections that corporations can.

    I keep hearing that landlords need to treat it as a business - but how can you when you are being charged full rates of tax.

    There needs to be a full overhaul of how as a society we want to accommodate people. What we have now is a mish mash of different ideals with none of them working.



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