Do you have to disclose whether you’ve had vaccine?

JDMC2

I’ve had my vaccine but my teenage child has not. When she goes back to school is she obliged to tell the school whether she has had it or not. I’m asking from the point of view that my daughter’s medical history is confidential.

im not looking for a right or wrong moral code on this question, just a Yes or No will suffice.

i can feel an attack coming on here

growleaves

You can't ask on a site like this and get an accurate answer because several posters here are basically campaigning, in the most nakedly partisan terms possible, for everyone to take a vaccine.

You will be told by posters here that you must.

You're better off refusing to disclose while also seeking legal advice.

Liam O

What is the school's stance on other vaccines that your daughter has taken? Without in depth knowledge on the subject I imagine you've to get MMR and the likes and they are normally done through school.

AustinLostin

No she shouldn't have to disclose in any official sense, and as it stands children can't be excluded from education because of vaccine status. As with anything these days, that guidance can change.

I would imagine the school has some kind of policy on vaccinations.

Are they aware of your daughters vaccine record on childhood vaccinations?

Damien360

They can ask all they like but you are under no obligation to answer. Legalisation exists to allow pubs ask you for your details via the QR code but there is no such instance for schools. The government is on hols for a few weeks and nothing will come in fast enough for the start of school. The school has an obligation to look after the safety of its staff and pupils but considering all kids were at school before the vaccination program and this was deemed safe, it would be hard to argue that now there is any danger.

For the record, I firmly believe in vaccination, and our family of 2+2 are all vaccinated.

FileNotFound

I understand from what is going on in my company (yes a company not a school, I know).

The School (Company in my case) can request the information as is their right

You can freely give that information or not as is your right.

No matter the answer or lack, it will not impact your child's attendance at school (as things stand)

From a school perspective the information could be useful in them deciding when they are happy to reduce restrictions on the school grounds. Although this will most likely be controlled by the Gov advice of the time.

Hope this is of some help.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205003/do-you-have-to-disclose-whether-you-ve-had-vaccine

It seems that school in September will be the same as last year, masks etc so in that context the question makes no sense.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781509#Comment_117781509

Schools like work places may be asking for information purposes, not some evil plan hatching, just wondering if they have a lot of vaccinated in classes, being as it would be safer the more vaxxed that are there.

I assume the OP expects the question to come or maybe it has. It has been asked in many work places.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781537#Comment_117781537

Why would they be asking anything if they are operating the same hygiene regime as last year? Only 8% of the 65% of 16-17 registered are fully vaccinated and they've done about 1/4 of the 12-15s with the first dose.

astrofool

It doesn't look like it will be an issue (unless there's legislation change). There might be cases where close contacts occur and those vaccinated don't have to isolate themselves, but I'd imagine it will be a voluntary disclosure (i.e. assume unvaccinated and they need to isolate unless they have a vaccination certificate saying otherwise).

I believe college campus are vaccinated only? With remote learning the option if you're not vaccinated.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781610#Comment_117781610

Apparently not mandatory except locations which follow the indoor dining regulations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/vaccination-not-mandatory-for-college-campus-access-from-september-1.4644091

Ger Roe

Listening to gov statements on the radio over the past two days - college campus will not be 'vaccinated only' and will be operating as normally as possible with physical attendance, depending on individual college physical building constraints with regard to observing public health guidelines. There may however be restricted access to canteen and bar facilities as per current hospitality sector requirements to show proof of vaccination or recent negative test. Basically, they are going to give it a go and see what happens.

Short answer to the OP ... at the moment, there are no changes planned to the operation of secondary schools - no attendance requirement to have proof of vaccination.

She should be barred from attending school until fully vaccinated. Unfortunately however, she won't be.

nibtrix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781452#Comment_117781452

Just on this point that the "company can request the information as is their right", that may not actually be true. There are a lot of issues regarding GDPR / data processing meaning that companies should not be holding or processing personal medical info for staff.

The Data Protection Commission even says "employees should not be asked to consent to the processing of vaccine data as this consent is not likely to be freely given." - https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2021-06/Processing%20COVID-19%20Vaccination%20Data%20in%20the%20context%20of%20Employment_0.pdf

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781674#Comment_117781674

As you were saying!

https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1428685151693836295

MarkR

What's the reasoning behind not advising the school? Is it because your child isn't vaccinated, and you don't want the school to know that?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781726#Comment_117781726

Why would they even ask? Our fully vaccinated rate of such groups is very low and will stay that way for at least another 6 weeks.

seamus

Schools can ask, but she is not obliged to provide them with this information and they cannot prevent her from going to school unless they are prepared to make alternative arrangements for her which do not disadvantage her compared to another student.

Schools probably will start asking for the purposes of assessing overall risk and perhaps in relation to contact tracing, but schools can't refuse to educate children based on their vaccination status.

Hippodrome Song Owl

The issue is that those identified as close contacts do not have to restrict movements if vaccinated, whereas those who are not vaccinated will have to stay at home if deemed to be a close contact. How will that be implemented if the school is not aware of vaccine status?

I don't think they can or should ask generally. But as part of contact tracing and managing a school outbreak they would have to know vaccine status of close contacts to properly implement procedures.

jmlad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

Booo

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

Which vaccines does that apply, in your opinion?

Eg I was not able to have BCG as a child, because of how I reacted to a pre vaccination test. Should that have disqualified me from all further education?

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

I don't really understand this logic. She and others who are unvaccinated who will be the ones at risk. I'd be more concerned if someone attending school wished to get vaccinated but their parents were against it.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782314#Comment_117782314

It's being a bit facetious, but no, that would not disqualify you, and it would put you in the group of people depending on others to get vaccinated for your protection via herd immunity, there's lots of children in this group and they are all getting educated but could have to isolate themselves if there was a "virus I can't get vaccinated for" outbreak if it was a higher risk for them (for example).

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205003/do-you-have-to-disclose-whether-you-ve-had-vaccine

Do you disclose medical conditions that could be helpful to the school when asked, eg asthma, allergy to nuts etc ?

Surely you'd disclose, in the event of close contacts, if your child is or isn't vaccinated?

Although I assume everyone is assumed a close contact until they produce a cert to be allowed stay in school, so it will be fairly clear to others who is and who isn't vaccinated, without having to divulge medical information!!!!

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

Moronic post

crooked cockney villain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

God forbid the other teenagers catch something off her that in young people is usually milder than the winter flu, and that's among the minority who even realise they have it.

I, and wider society, feel sorry for people like you. 18 months in of being lied to, you would think you would develop a bit of cop on. People who don't yearn for the pre Covid world never had a life to begin with.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205003/do-you-have-to-disclose-whether-you-ve-had-vaccine

At present, it's a bit like the "voluntary contribution" in schools, they can "ask", you are not (yet) legally obliged to answer. There might be an issue, if the school has indoor dining facilities.

They can also make it difficult for you and your child if they do not like your response, and then you might have the expense/hassle of going to court to "resolve" this.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783816#Comment_117783816

Where do you see the requirement coming from seeing as we have no laws for it?

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783821#Comment_117783821

Six weeks ago there was no "law" about requiring vaccinations for indoor dining.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783829#Comment_117783829

And there still is no law, it's a regulation, likely temporary, based on an SI.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783834#Comment_117783834

Would this then fall under the catagory of Secondary legislation?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783846#Comment_117783846

Not really, existing SIs don't need legislating once they don't change. It's easy to do for transport and hospitality, far harder where people have a right to be educated.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783821#Comment_117783821

That is the big question for employers at the moment. They have a duty of care to both vaccinated and unvaccinated employees and in some circumstances the risk of infection might mean changes in employment conditions for either or both groups. It is going to be a long winter of court cases if the Gov doesn't get some guidelines out and back them up with advance legislation, if necessary. Not the 'announce it and see' approach that they have been doing, resulting in U -turns and late curtailed Dail debates to rush through necessary retrospective laws.

To be clear, I am not saying what way the decision should come down on vaccination in the workplace, but some decision needs to be made and backed up - one way or another, otherwise employers and employees are in for a hard stressful time in hard stressful times.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783860#Comment_117783860

It seems to be wait and see but for now vaccination is not a requirement to return to wok. Leo, the relevant minister, doesn't want to get involved in it if he can help it. We're also looking at winter from a current dynamic environment of high vaccination rates and a fairly high disease prevalence. It may be very different in 4 weeks.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205003/do-you-have-to-disclose-whether-you-ve-had-vaccine

They can ask but you have no obligation to tell them. The school is still obliged to accommodate your child. Schools will want to create as safe an environment as is possible so will likely segregate the vaccinated kids from those who's status is unknown or withheld. At worst she'll be sat near kids of people who don't vaccinate their kids for bad reasons as well as those who don't vaccinate them for good reasons like yourself so all in all, I wouldn't worry too much.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784040#Comment_117784040

What is this, a throwback to US segregationist times? I see a whole pile of legal cases in this approach never mind what the DES would do to a school.

RacoonQueen

If someone doesn't want to/doesn't disclose if they've had a vaccine or not, I would assume that means they haven't got it. So you're answering the question anyway by not disclosing. If you've had the vaccine you are just going to say you've had it. You'd have no reason to not disclose.

I don't believe she's 'obliged' to disclose though.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787464#Comment_117787464

Someone might also believe that it's none of anybody's business. Getting a vaccine does not bring with it a requirement to share it with the world.

RacoonQueen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787495#Comment_117787495

I'd be very surprised if many people who are getting vaccinated would think like that. Very normal small talk at the minute is 'did you get your vaccine yet?'. Most people won't think twice before asking this, I've actually had to stop people in work from asking it, they assume everyone is ok with getting vaccinated and don't see the problem with just asking as part of a normal, friendly conversation.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787563#Comment_117787563

Not my experience of small talk, people have moved on from COVID in every form. I really have no idea how many people of my acquaintance have been vaccinated nor would I ask nor expect to be asked.

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781684#Comment_117781684

Aren't we all lucky that there wasn't more people like you around when the "perfectly safe" Pandemrix swine flu vaccine was being rolled out. Imagine how many kids would have suffered if they were to be denied an education unless they took it.

I have been vaccinated to get into some countries. I also get vaccines at work, who keep a record of my vaccinations.

Work also keep records on the covid vaccination status of employees.

I agree the only people who have an issue saying if they have a vaccine are people who are not vaccinated.

They don't have to, it's not mandatory, but in general people who have vaccines don't have an issue saying they do.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787615#Comment_117787615

Not always that clear cut. Some may have issues with the type of segregationist proposals that some posters are suggesting.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787495#Comment_117787495

The vast vast majority of people who are vaccinated don’t have the twisted conspiracy theorist worldview of people who refuse to be vaccinated and can therefore see the value in institutions like schools having that information so they can accommodate everyone and keep them safe more effectively.

Sure, there will be some vaccinated people who want to keep it a secret for some reason, but if someone refuses to say it’s almost certainly because they have decided not to get it and have some weird ideological opposition to it.

And people who haven’t been vaccinated for genuine reasons will almost certainly want to disclose it because they’re the ones being put most at risk by the irresponsible and will want the school to help protect them.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787615#Comment_117787615

I’ve been vaccinated but would refuse to disclose if asked in an official capacity (most know unofficially anyway), it’s private and confidential information, where do you draw the line on what information you give away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787682#Comment_117787682

Have you shown your cert to enter a bar/restaurant, or do you plan never to enter one again?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787682#Comment_117787682

Does that mean you won't go to a restaurant or pub yet? Not that there's anything wrong with not going! Just wondering.

confidential information about my vaccinations are also the business of my employer, im front line and there was enough moaning and complaining to get all front line vaccinated, it's fair enough. wouldn't be sure about other employers though.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787719#Comment_117787719

I didn’t go to many to begin with but have happily shown the cert, there’s a law requiring this, it’s not voluntary disclosure, there’s a big difference between that and an employer or school asking for information they’re not legally entitled to ask for, if it’s law then fine, if not then no.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787746#Comment_117787746

You have no problem sharing private confidential information, along with your name/number to have a pint, but you wouldn’t want to share it with your employer/school where you spend more time, come in close contact with more people?

There is no law requiring you to go to a bar, if you do not want to share your confidential medical information.

Multipass

I’ve been vaxxed, but I don’t want to live in this new dystopian society where such a question is even considered. F@€k all of that, that’s why I won’t answer. And no, I don’t show a pass either, though I’ve taken a lot of pleasure in eating in, and going for drinks in places where no-one is taking any notice of this stupidity.