Afghanistan for Dummies

The Mighty Quinn

I know there's already a thread on Afghanistan that's chugging away, but for people like me who are a little lost on the conflict, wondering if we could have a separate thread to kinda discuss the background to it?

My understanding... and probably very flawed....

Taliban formed as a militant Islamic group to fight the Russians in Afghanistan in the early 90s? Al-Qaeda formed by Osama bin Laden et al in the late 80s... to fight the Russians? One or both of them trained, armed, funded by the US?

Afghan civil war something something 1996-2001 saw the Taliban rule the country.... Taliban sympathetic to Al-Qaeda, Al-Qaeda terror attacks in America... America over to Afghanistan to dismantle them... and Taliban..... 20 years... something something.

Finding it very very difficult to find some kind of neat summary - difficult to summarise i'm sure - to give me a clear picture of why things are how they are. Why did Al-Qaeda turn on the US if they were helped by them earlier on, what happened there.... are Al-Qaeda a threat again, what does that mean, how does that look?

All informed responses welcome, I'm a muddle!

dudley72

You forgot drugs, all anyone is interested in is selling drugs

The Mighty Quinn

I didn't forget - if drugs are an aspect to it all, I wasn't aware of it! I've heard of the opium poppy in Afghanistan. Are the Afghan's major players in world heroin? Again, I don't know.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058204531/afghanistan-for-dummies

Google ( your friend.. LOL ) Wikipedia History of Afghanistan. Its all there in nice easy to understand language.

HeidiHeidi

Excellent question!!

Following this thread in the hope of being a small bit educated.....

buried

This is a great BBC documentary from 2015 about all things related to the wider geo-political disaster scenario mainly involving Afghanistan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84P4dzow1Bw&t=7558s

Atlantic Dawn

They seem to like basic pleasures in life like bumper cars, perhaps build them some class of a massive theme park in Kabul to keep them entertained. AK's on the bumper cars should be discouraged though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjEwqzveos

Signore Fancy Pants

Ok,

This is very watered down for brevity.

The past:

The Taliban was formed in 1994 in response to the Afghan civil war after the withdrawal of Russian forces.

Afghan groups were heavily backed by the US as a strategic geo-political move due to Russian occupation of Afghanistan....in a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of relationship.

The Taliban pretty much only became a household name due to their relationship with Al-Qaeda, and the subsequent NATO coalition operations following on from 9/11....hence the invasion.

Afg is a Muslim country, with Sunni being the predominant sect of Islam. This is a key piece of information as any Sunni terrorist organisation or indeed country, will support the Taliban, and capitalise off their autonomy over the populace and the country itself.

The "westernisation" of Afghanistan is over, archaic and strict Islam will be followed. While Taliban leadership has overtly stated that no reprisals will occur towards anyone who co-operated with NATO, and that women will be treated better, this is most likely a PR move to let things settle and mitigate against an aerial campaign of ex NATO military stockpiles.

The future:

As Afghanistan will be declared as an Islamic Emirate, we may see it being a hub for extremists, similar to Syria a few years ago with regard to Islamic State.

The release of prisoners and detainees from Afghan prisons will aid to strengthen the Taliban in the short term, not to mention the significant amount of military equipment left behind by NATO.

However, there may be additional conflict due to competition for recruitment and resources with the local Islamic State branch, or Islamic State Khorasan Province, despite being allies.

For now, the Taliban will rebuild (mainly their influence) in the region, with pledges already from China and Iran for co-operation.

For Iran, they already have a close(ish) relationship with Afghan citizens. Iran sponsor, train and pay Afghan and Pakistan militants for service in Iranian proxy militias in Syria and Yemen, under the Liwa Fatemayoun and Liwa Zaineboun militias.

It is possible that Al-Qaeda cells in the MENA region will gain strength from official Taliban rule. "Congratulations" messages have already been sent to Taliban leadership. It is very possible that this will lead to increased vitality in regard to EU terror attacks as Afghanistan will replace Syria/Iraq/Africa as a strategic Jihadist hub due to less "western" oversight.

Not sure if any of that helps.

Gatling

Generally speaking the Taliban came after the russians ,the Taliban and the mujahadeen who faught the Russians in the early 80's ,

Most of the current Taliban anyone under 50 didn't fight against the russians they would have been only born or barely walking at the time ,

The taliban aren't anti drugs they are actually heavily reliant on opium production to fund their war chest,

Bin Laden's wasn't trained or equipped by the Americans he came with saudi money with a Saudi agenda like several others like himself they also regularly killed afgans that didn't subscribe to their agenda and enforced strict Sharia on the afgans they claimed to be there to help

Why did Russia (or was it The USSR?) invade Afghanistan?

They were brought in by an old regime weren't they?

Pa ElGrande

A good source of quick digestible content is the youtube channel CaspianReport. The host Shirvan Neftchi is based in Azerbijan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBVvyBWDD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xipS91mvXEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaC5EenFTww

Another commentator on the region is Brazilian journalist Pepe Escobar who write for the Asia Times.

Commenting on Ghani’s escape, Abdullah Abdullah did not mince his words: “God will hold him accountable.” Ghani, an anthropologist with a doctorate from Columbia, is one of those classic cases of Global South exiles to the West who “forget” everything that matters about their original lands. 

Ghani is a Pashtun who acted like an arrogant New Yorker. Or worse, an entitled Pashtun, as he was often demonizing the Taliban, who are overwhelmingly Pashtun, not to mention Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras, including their tribal elders.  

It’s as if Ghani and his Westernized team had never learned from a top source such as the late, great Norwegian social anthropologist Fredrik Barth (check out a sample of his Pashtun studies here).

Geopolitically, what matters now is how the Taliban have written a whole new script, showing the lands of Islam, as well as the Global South, how to defeat the self-referential, seemingly invincible US/NATO empire.

The Taliban did it with Islamic faith, infinite patience and force of will fueling roughly 78,000 fighters – 60,000 of them active – many with minimal military training, no backing of any state – unlike Vietnam, which had China and the USSR – no hundreds of billions of dollars from NATO, no trained army, no air force and no state-of-the-art technology.

source

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117768888#Comment_117768888

Reminds me of 8th December when all the people go up to Dublin to do their Christmas shopping. First time up seeing the big lights. That's probably a lot of the reason for the background to the situation - uneducated people who've never been able to see or experience anything different are easily brainwashed into a particular way of thinking and it then becomes a way of life for them.

We should learn from Afghanistan - Never let Leitrim people have guns!

Yellow_Fern

Some facts about Afghan society.  i) most afghans can't read, only 1 in 3 women can read, ii) 1 in 10 are opiate users, iii) only 1 in 20 can speak English, iv) most girls marry before age 18, v) Paedophilia with young boys is socially acceptable.

igCorcaigh

46% of the population is under 15 years of age.

There are many ethnic groups including Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbeks, Nuristanis, Aimaq, Turkmen, Baloch and others.

A question I've always wondered about how do the deeply religious square their piousness with acceptance of things like drugs etc?

Do they claim it as a means to an end?

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771376#Comment_117771376

It is not like a struggle of two discrete ideologies. It is a vague amorphous collection of war lords who are pro and anti Taliban. The Taliban will say they are against gays but it is common to find Taliban fighters with boy lovers. The Taliban can retort that this is just immoral local warlords but it is clearly the case that there is a lot of social ambivalence towards heroin use and taking boy lovers. You should watch Vice doc on the US troops trying to curb this (Entitled This is what winning looks like). The local elders would one second say they are against these things and then say something else a second later to the contrary. It showed that they are not so bothered and are often not at all pious.

Will check out the documentary, thanks.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771376#Comment_117771376

They remain very anti-drugs for their own people however, in desperate need of funds their former leader Mullah Omar decided that since heroin "only harms kafirs" (i.e. those of us who aren't fundamentalist muslims) it was acceptable for Afghan farmers to return to the cultivation of the crop... More detail here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Economy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772421#Comment_117772421

Interesting

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058204531/afghanistan-for-dummies

Al Queda turned on the US as soon as the cheques or cash stopped coming.

Taliban are not Al Queda and have always held some section of the nation despite US presence. The easy take back of the nations shows 2 things:

1. The US created Gov did not represent the will of the people and its failure to try and defend itself is quite shocking
2. The Taliban have some or at least more support than the Gov.

The current leader and co founder of the Taliban has been in Qatar for some time holding discussions with both the UN and US about the future, presumably they knew the Taliban were ready for a quick take over once US troops had withdrew, Also the Taliban were keen to explain they will be more progressive and thus they should be allowed into power.

Thats just the version I have picked up - no doubt its half wrong or lacking the detail

Yellow_Fern

A 2013 survey found 39% supported suicide bombing and 99% supported Sharia being the national law.

Source: https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769968#Comment_117769968

To help the socialist government there. Simplifying a lot, there was a socialist government in Afghanistan from 1978. It was not very stable at all and the head of the state (Nur Muhammad Taraki) was soon killed by a rival. The Afghan government asked the USSR to intervene to save the socialism, which the USSR very reluctantly did by killing the rival (Amin) and bringing troops to help the government. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_Afghanistan

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772537#Comment_117772537

From what I've read this rather over-simplifies things as the Taliban's version of Sharia Law would be far more hard-line form (and many Muslims would argue a deliberate misinterpretation) of what the majority of those that follow Islam would recognise i.e. the majority of that 99% would not be in favour of the Taliban version of Sharia...

I'm no expert but have been reading a lot about Afghanistan's history and the history of the Taliban over the past few days (mostly Wikipedia tbh but some interesting articles being shared by some of the war correspondents on Twitter atm too). In answer to the OP's question, there really doesn't seem to be a "for dummies" guide: the situation in Afghanistan is extremely complex and, from the looks of it, many of those who should have had a good handle on the situation on the ground quite obviously didn't (or were ignored).

Kaybaykwah

Tell me where they get their army issue sandals. I’m fed up being a loser.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772681#Comment_117772681

Right Sharia is a very broad system and a supporter of Sharia could easily be against extreme aspects but many aspects of Sharia were the law in Afghanistan without the Taliban. It was already an Islamic republic under the Americans. It was already the case that a daughter is only entitled to receive one third of the inheritance of her brother or brothers. In practise they often get nothing. Now the Taliban's version is far worse but varies a lot locally.

Beechwoodspark

Just watched that vice documentary “this is what winning looks like”.

depressing and a dose of reality about how backwards and messed up that country is.

Have only watched a small bit so far, depressing is right.

This 8 year old documentary kind of helps explain why everything fell apart so quick this week

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773441#Comment_117773441

which documentary? one of the ones already referenced, or did you mean to include a link?

very interesting info from everyone.

The Vice one mentioned earlier, "This is what winning looks like". It's up on YouTube

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773668#Comment_117773668

Depressing doesn't begin to describe it!

buried

Been depressing for a long time. But what all this whole thing is, is just another example of those who want to wield power and get high off that egotistical experience that gratifies them so much, their quest for gratification by wielding the sword of power, ends up destroying and obliterating the actual lives of hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent people who just want to live in peace. People who seek power are a curse on humanity. None of us should forget it.

Munstergirl854

What happened with Iraq in the end??

Seems like it hasn't been on the news with years....

Do troops still have a presence there?

Pa ElGrande

Afghanistan before the Russian Invasion (Documentary, 1979) - 51 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPrU7R8L2Y

Latest from CaspianReport (22 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jsvmQR19TE

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774601#Comment_117774601

As far as I know, there's still a US training presence in Iraq, as well as a strong security detachment for the embassy in Bagdad, but no major combat elements anymore. I may be wrong though.

In general, it looks as if the security situation in Iraq has stabilised considerably, though I honestly haven't focussed on that country.

nj27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117768888#Comment_117768888

Didn't last long

Montage of Feck

I remember when the Mujahideen/Taliban were the good guys, holy warriors fighting those evil godless commies. They even helped James Bond and Rambo.

riclad

Taliban make millions by taxing anything that go's in or out, including drugs, they are even stronger as they have a billion dollars worth of tanks jeeps guns left behind by the army they are trying to be seen as moderate now as to be recognised by Western country's

They believe in sharia law eg women should stay at home music and most tv shows will be banned women can only go out with a make escort even its a 5 tear old America left behind state of the are military hardware helicopters planes tanks the American withdrawal has been a disaster they could not even rescue all American citizens Pakistan and Iran already support various extreme terrorist groups some people think America will go back in a few years in case the country becomes a base for terrorism there's various factions in the taliban some who want to follow extreme versions of sharia law or some who realise they will need to allow and older civil servants civilian experts in government simply in order to run the country the infrastrure the health service eg the average talban member is ignorant all they know is the Koran and how to use weapons or collect taxs because the country was run on bribes and corruption the army simply gave up in most places when the taliban attacked and took over the country whatever happens its gonna be tough for ordinary people banks are not operating normally people are running out of money to buy food women that worked in shops banks chemist's etc can only stay at home they are not allowed to work the taliban realise they will need help from outside country's in order to keep the economy going most of the governments money is frozen in banks outside the country

Atlantic Dawn

Serious question, do the Taliban have any non religious based hobbies?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836290#Comment_117836290

It has to be said

A , here and a . there would have almost made what you wrote legible.

Neyite

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/asia-jan-june11-timeline-afghanistan

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/durand-line/

These two articles are a very brief summary of how we got to today's Afghanistan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836350#Comment_117836350

I'm sure they do plenty of stuff in private that would be frowned upon by their religious community in public.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854339#Comment_117854339

Isn't that pretty much most religious people?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854367#Comment_117854367

In my experience, yes, it knows no bounds. I suppose we all are guilty of it, religious or non-religious

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854391#Comment_117854391

So you me and the taliban we are all the same Peter?