Metrolink south of Charlemont

Sam Russell

Not wanting to take this thread too far off topic, but joining the GL above ground at Charlemont does open up solutions for the Luas GL stub that is left at Harcourt.

Putting a line from GCD to join the Red Line along the South Circular (the Grand Canal is too narrow unless the motor traffic is removed) opens up so many possibilities. Continue further along, onto the North Circular, and many more possibilities open up. There are tricky places to navigate passed, but no worse than already dealt with by the current two Luas lines.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236301#Comment_120236301

I wonder if one way systems could be implemented on the Grand Canal and SCR to reallocate space to PT / Luas. Could make cars westbound on GC and eastbound only on SCR.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236482#Comment_120236482

I think that might warrant a new thread.

However, if the GL south of Charlemont is to become the Metrolink from Charlemont above ground, then the two outstanding issues remain - Dunville Avenue and the road crossing at St Raphaela's Road. Both can be dealt with long before ever the Metrolink is built as far as SSG. Dunville Ave by closing the road and putting in a pedestrian/cycle bridge. St Raphaela's Rd is solved by putting in Metro bridge with the station on it straddling the road.

All can be achieved without the four (or was it five) year closing predicted by one of the well known voices against the whole project.

cgcsb

Demolishing the houses in Peters place and taking the church car park looks like the best option for a connection to the tunnel. They're going to demolish many more homes on Tara St for the station there so that's clearly not a barrier. They could even build the same or greater number of homes as apartments with the spare bits of the site when the tunnel tie in is finished.

DoctorPan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236034#Comment_120236034

That's not far off from the 3rd proposed corridor that Aecom came up for Luas Lucan.

Munurty

https://youtu.be/LEzb2-oRF0Q

This video about orbital trams was released today.

I don't think we can do cheap and fast build in Ireland

Murph85

Why can't Dunville be made two way and barriers like at dart Stations installed?

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244303#Comment_120244303

I assume you mean if the line was upgraded to Metro? At peak there would just be too many movements to make it practical. Could be a metro passing every 90 seconds

Murph85

Yeah... so they can give a green for a minute at a time. Its only peak times its an issue.... also people will just start going other ways at peak times if its an issue...

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244379#Comment_120244379

They can’t give a minute, there are safety tolerances for timings, see how much before a dart the gates drop. It would effectively close the road anyway.

Sam Russell

Besides which, level crossing gates are very dangerous because drivers do not respect the lights.

Even on the Dart, it means the gates are closed more than half the time at busy times. The gates close 2 minutes before the train arrives, so the Metro with a 90 second frequency means the gates would never open.

p_haugh

Level crossings would be 100% out of the question with metrolink being a fully autonomous system, nevermind the frequency of it.

L1011

Dunville residents opposed the bridge when the Luas was built. They can live with the consequences of their actions.

Station would have been on the embankment (where the old rail station was) with lifts had the bridge been reinstated.

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236034#Comment_120236034

For a city so fundamentally lacking in core radial lines, the idea of building an orbital line is putting the cart before the horse.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248639#Comment_120248639

On the contrary, after Metro we'll have 6 radials; Metro, Dart Coastal, Dart West, Dart South West, Luas Red, Luas Green.

An orbital Metro route would supplement all current trams / rail modes and the entire Bus network.

A 15-20 minute bus ride would bring huge numbers of people to a high speed, high capacity and high frequency Metro. No single radial route could possibly benefit as many customers as an orbital.

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248719#Comment_120248719

Trams are not radial mass transit, and when Dart is complete that's 2 radials not 3.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248639#Comment_120248639

Just some journey examples to show the wide reach of a Grand Canal Metro (about 7.5km long, 10minutes ride).

1) Sallins to Grand Canal Dock:

Dart to Heuston West (30min), Metro to Docklands (10min). Total journey time 40min (c. 15min saving versus current)

2) Rathgar to Grand Canal Dock:

Bus to Portobello (15min), Metro to Docklands (4min). Total journey time 19min (c. 17min saving versus current)

3) UCD to Inchicore:

Bus to canal at Leeson Street (17min), Metro to Suir Road (7min), Red Luas to Blackhorse (10min). Total journey time 34min (c. 32min saving versus current)

4) Crumlin to Airport:

Bus to canal at Dolphins Barn (8min), Metro to Charlemont (4min), Metro to Airport (22min). Total journey time 34min (c. 26min saving versus current)

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248869#Comment_120248869

We need metro tunnels through the core, not going around it. A similar project going east-west through the centre would be far more useful. I doubt the canal route is even feasible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248719#Comment_120248719

"No single radial route could possibly benefit as many customers as an orbital."

That's nonsense.

brianc89

Another example to show it's not nonsense.

5) Tallaght to Grand Canal Dock:

Luas to Suir Road (25min), Metro to Docklands (10min). Total journey time 35min (c. 21min saving versus current)

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249011#Comment_120249011

its total nonsene. none of these are major trip generators

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250683#Comment_120250683

The area between Leeson Street and the Liffey, right along the canal, has the largest concentration of office space in Dublin.

To say that this area is not a trip generator is utter nonsense.

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251516#Comment_120251516

This route doesn't serve the area between Leeson Street and the Liffey.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252577#Comment_120252577

I think you'll find my suggested route does. Here was my suggested "nonsense" route with a rough 500m corridor marked in.

It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to connect it directly across to New Spencer Dock, which would bring the line directly across the river.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252577#Comment_120252577

Don't forget there are plans to house 8000 people in Glass Bottle site of Ringsend. That's a massive trip generator, which a red line extension will struggle to serve.

I struggle to understand why you think this suggested route is nonsense.

D.L.R.

That's less than half the area you described. Try to cut the hyperbole. Your concept is a non starter.

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253629#Comment_120253629

Its not a struggle to understand, its very simple. Its nonsense because it bypasses the CBD. Totally ass backward. And building under the canal is more nonsense.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255957#Comment_120255957

Let's assume my suggestion goes to New Spencer Dock rather than Ringsend and, as I've also suggested, a Luas is built from Heuston West or James to College Green.

Now compare options. At the very least my option is not nonsense and it is extremely disingenuous to say it is.

Your suggestion:

My suggestion

D.L.R.

None of the above changes the fundamental problems of lack of CBD access and the generally silly idea of building under the grand canal.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255957#Comment_120255957

Anyone coming from Dart West or South West can change to Metro at Glasnevin to get to the CBD which I assume you take as SSG.

Building an extremely expensive DU tunnel will shorten that journey by about 5 minutes max.

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255998#Comment_120255998

The CBD is the whole city centre (plus Docklands) area where the bulk of employment and commercial activity is.

DU is about far more than that one example, which would be much more than 5 minutes quicker by the way. More nonsensical hyperbole.