Baby left alone overnight in graveyard in Kerry

Polly701

This recent story has really stayed with me and made me so sad. A four month old baby brought to a graveyard at night for 'a party' and then forgotten about for a whole night. Thankfully it has ended well but I hope that social workers are able to ensure there is no more child neglect in this family.

(Sorry.. I couldn't attach link as I don't post very often).

Green Banana

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40359569.html

This is the latest on it. It appears the mother felt unwell and left leaving the baby in the care of a relative. I'm not sure what I think about it all, I personally can't see how I would be comfortable leaving a baby at a party if I felt unwell and had to leave It would be natural to bring the baby with me, however I wouldn't be at a party at night with a 4 month old baby in the first place. I just hope the feeling unwell wasn't another way to say she was drunk. As then I would see her as being responsible but is there any way of knowing.

Jackben75

madness

WrenBoy

Jesus, thats shocking. Hopefully there are no corners cut on this and the child's safety is prioritised.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761489#Comment_117761489

The judge refused the care order ffs.

Luxemburgo

How in the world is this child still with its mother

Immortal Starlight

What a bunch of despicable bastards. Anything could have happened to that little baby. The family were lucky she wasn’t found dead. If she had been it would be on the paper and be everyone’s fault but their own of course.

whisky_galore

It used be Goths that hung around graveyards all night, must be a "cultural" thing as well.

So mother feels unwell, and leaves baby with someone else. Why not take your baby home? What is a baby going to get out of an all night graveyard thing?

boombang

I saw comment on Twitter suggesting this incident was within the travelling community. There were, however, no sources to support the suggestions and nothing in the several news sources that I have seen to support that either.

It seems very strange. Mother taken ill or otherwise. A four month old faces a very real chance of death being left outside overnight. While I don't know the circumstances beyond what little was reported, this seems a criminal level of neglect.

seamus

@boombang wrote:

I saw comment on Twitter suggesting this incident was within the travelling community. There were, however, no sources to support the suggestions and nothing in the several news sources that I have seen to support that either.

I'm not aware of (open to correction) any other cultural groups in Ireland that commemorate the anniversary of someone's death with a large ceremony at the graveside. There may often be a trip to the grave to lay flowers, but Travellers are the only group I'm aware of who set up camp at the graveside for the whole day and involve music, drinking, etc.

I'm not making any judgements on that practice itself (I personally think an uplifting celebration is better than a dour affair), just saying that I've never heard of anyone except travellers doing it.

Let he/she who has not brought their 4 month old to a late night party at the graveyard cast the first stone!

BorneTobyWilde

Tusla

'' give me the BABY!!!''

Judge

''fck off out of it, give baby back to family''

Correct call, crazy mistake of those involved, but it happens 1000s of times a day, people leaving a baby in a car, or shop,

Grab All Association

Court has found the mother to be believable. Fair enough, we all feel unwell at some point.

The person who she left the child with could still be charged child neglect/endangerment. Surely this should be investigated.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762468#Comment_117762468

I'm sorry, this does not happen thousands of times a day, that babies are forgotten outside at drinking session in a graveyard.

Never mind her getting back the child, she should be jailed for neglect.

Could happen to anyone.

“David Cameron and his wife, Samantha, left their eight-year-old daughter, Nancy, in a pub after having Sunday drink, Downing Street has confirmed.

She is reported to have spent a quarter of an hour at the Plough Inn at Cadsden, in Buckinghamshire, before Mrs Cameron returned to collect her.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-18391663

Jequ0n

Well, survival of the fittest…

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762468#Comment_117762468

It would most likely have been a 7 day emergency care order. Would have given enough time to investigate the circumstances and check that there were no issues relating to the care of the baby.

In most situations the child is returned unless there is a significant, immediate risk to the child's safety or welfare.

The mother brought a baby to a graveyard, became unwell (whatever that means 🙄), left baby with another person who then left the baby behind when they left. How long was the baby abandoned for? By any means this was not a typical "oops I forgot my child" incident.

cnoc

There is a difference between a 4 month old baby and an 8 yr old child.

Polly701

Why was a baby even brought there at night??! Fair enough if that's what the adults want to do but it is an entirely unsuitable place for a very young baby. I hope Tusla keep a very close eye on this family.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762589#Comment_117762589

Is there actually such a thing as a TYPICAL “Oops I forgot my child” incident?

I don’t think there actually is.

What appears to have happened in this particular case was an unfortunate misunderstanding, and the Judge being aware of the facts denied Tusla’s application to take the child into temporary care.

It’s not unreasonable to surmise that the Judge saw no need for such drastic action and determined that it wouldn’t be in the child’s best interests to grant the application.

Judge made the right call IMO.

GavRedKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762521#Comment_117762521

It could happen to anyone.

But .....there's a massive difference between 15mins and returning yourself compared to a child being out all night and then found the next morning by a caretaker and being brought to hospital.

Absolute bottom of the barrel.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762677#Comment_117762677

You would be surprised at how often kids are left behind. By all means not uncommon.

More than happy to disagree about the judges decision. Neither of us know the full facts but to me it wasn't a simple misunderstanding.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762521#Comment_117762521

Yes, that's exactly the same as leaving a baby in a grave yard overnight to be found by somebody else the next morning.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762713#Comment_117762713

SOHBP. Tongue in cheek post.

A shocking event. The first reports said that the group left the graveyard around 2am and the baby was found when the caretaker turned up for work and heard the babies cries.

It never ceases to amaze me how a certain section of society has “traditions” that are only a decade or so old and everyone else is expected to accept them without question.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762777#Comment_117762777

Dias de los muertos Boss.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762738#Comment_117762738

The only thing that surprises me is anyone claiming it’s in any way a common occurrence under any circumstances that children are left behind. It’s incredibly rare that it happens, and incredibly unfortunate when it happens.

It’s true that neither of us know the full facts of the case, but the Judge does, and the Judge in this particular case having heard all the evidence presented determined that it wasn’t in the child’s best interests to grant the application to Tusla.

It’s on that basis that I’m saying the Judge made the right call. Granting the application to have the child taken into temporary care wouldn’t undo what had already happened.

boombang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762777#Comment_117762777

Even if the "tradition" is relatively new, that society is unwilling to challenge damaging nonsense from troublesome parts of society. We're so soft on all sort here cowboy builders, boy racers, corrupt bankers, urban feral teens, drug lords and sections of the travelling community.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762488#Comment_117762488

I assume you are taking the pi$$?

Who takes their 4-month-old to a party until 2am?

Who has a party in a graveyard (other than very underage teenagers)?

Who doesn't bring their 4-month-old baby home with them rather than leave them with someone else?

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762799#Comment_117762799

Parents forgetting to collect kids from training, school, camps, etc. Parents assuming the other parent was on collection duty. Childminders, or relatives forgetting they were minding a child. I've come across it plenty of times through work unfortunately.

CDarby

A story like that would make your blood boil. I know it's a cliché, but there's hardly been a better time to use it. It's scandalous that you need a license to own a dog or a television.

My brother dropped dead at 38 from S.A.D, himself and his wife tried for 10+ years trying to have children, tens of thousands on IVF, one round of which was successful, but unfortunately the child never made it full term and died in the womb, which his wife still had to deliver. They would have made absolutely fantastic parents who had so much to offer a child coming into the world.

spurious

Something you leave in a graveyard?

A baby?

Our survey said Ih---eh!!

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762468#Comment_117762468

Not sure which is worse...giving the child over to Tusla or leaving it with the mother.

Ten of Swords

Big poppa do not post in this thread again

sonic85

If the baby had died would there still be people posting here claiming this was just an honest mistake? When I first read the story the day after it happened I was shocked the baby was just handed back to the mother. Its scandalous really but some people are let do what they like

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764066#Comment_117764066

To be fair there was a case a couple of years ago where a father left his 7 month old in a car and no charges were ever brought as it was deemed an honest mistake

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/seven-month-old-who-died-after-being-found-in-car-is-named-1.3096600

I never heard anyone clamouring for the parent to be charged in that case.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764437#Comment_117764437

I think drawing comparisons is very unfair, given the circumstances of both incidents.

Guy:Incognito

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762677#Comment_117762677

Ah yes, an "unfortunate misunderstanding", where a parent "misunderstands" that you shouldnt bring a child do a graveyard piss up in the middle of the night. Nevermind leaving them there.

glenfieldman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764066#Comment_117764066

I genuinely think most people who are claiming this was a mistake are being sarcastic

The baby wasn't just handed back, most of the family barged into Tralee hospital and demanded the baby back "or else"

And the judge declined Tuslas request to place the baby with a safe family would be down to the fact the racist card would be pulled

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764483#Comment_117764483

No, an unfortunate misunderstanding which led to a baby being left behind. I don’t imagine anyone involved intended to do it on purpose. Seems reasonable to assume that’s why the Judge was of the opinion that it was unnecessary to grant Tusla a temporary care order.

The case has nothing to do with the circumstances of how the baby came to be left behind, it’s apparently very common, whether it’s in a graveyard overnight or a restaurant in the middle of the day. I’ve often forgotten stuff and left it behind me, never a baby though that wasn’t mine that I’d been asked to mind by someone else. People who know me are aware of how absent minded I can be.

As usual there are posters here making a mountain out of a molehill. The baby was returned to their rightful owners, no need for all the drama of having Tusla sticking their beaks in.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764561#Comment_117764561

So the baby WAS just handed back, and the only person we know of who is ACTUALLY trying to play the race card, is your good self?

The order wasn’t to place the baby with anyone else btw who’s baby it wasn’t, the order was an application by Tusla to be granted temporary care of the baby. The only thing we can reasonably assume from the outcome is that the Judge regarded such drastic actions as unnecessary and not in the best interests of the child, and so refused the order. It was a matter of law, not mob justice and moral pearl clutching looking to punish anyone.

glenfieldman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764841#Comment_117764841

Semantics

The Garda statement said the baby was handed back after a check up at Tralee hospital, a hospital that a family member of mine works there and was witness to what happened

You never disputed the fact the hospital was barged by a lot of the "family" demanding the baby back

So maybe Jack should look with both eyes

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764877#Comment_117764877

I didn’t dispute the fact that that the hospital was barged into by a lot of the family demanding the baby back because I’m aware that’s very likely what happens in any case where someone loses possession of their child and demand the child back, whether it’s a hospital at any time or a restaurant in broad daylight. Finders keepers is not a thing when it comes to other people’s children.

Jack would look with both eyes if Jack wasn’t blind in one eye, but y’know - semantics. I can still read.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764891#Comment_117764891

Apart from when of course, the child is left alone in the middle of the graveyard after a pissup.

They were lucky it was a mild dry night, as the child could have died.

It was 100% right that the child was monitored and checked over by medical professionals and members of Tusla, but I guess they were wrong to even check if the child was ok.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762674#Comment_117762674

It's a disgrace

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765020#Comment_117765020

Not at all apart from anything. The primary role of anyone who involves themselves in those circumstances is to see that it is imperative that the child is returned to their family, as opposed to using the circumstances to insert themselves and use any opportunity to remove children from their family in service only of their own interests.

I’m not disputing the fact that it was 100% right that what appeared to be an abandoned child was checked over by medical professionals and the Gardaí and welfare officers and whomever else. I’m stating as a fact, not just an opinion, that their primary role is to reunite children with their families.

Whether through their own failings, or complete ignorance of that fact, anyone sought to remove the child even temporarily from their family in the belief that they were acting in the child’s best interests, that fact was clarified and made clear to them by the Judge in this particular case refusing to grant Tusla’s application for an order of temporary care.

Really basic stuff that anyone, regardless of their intellect, should be capable of understanding. It also shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that if someone were to separate their children from them, the last thing on anyone’s mind is being polite or civil to anyone who tries or is trying to either keep, or separate anyone from their family. A person would be foolish to underestimate the lengths anyone would go to in those circumstances.

Fortunately for them the case never came to that as the Judge involved made the correct decision in favour of the child’s best interests in refusing to grant Tusla an application for temporary care. One doesn’t have to have a very long memory to be mindful of our recent past in that regard and the damage it has done to Irish society when removing children from their families was an acceptable practice. We all know how that turned out for those families and their children.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764469#Comment_117764469

It is just a demonstration that mistakes can happen and it is not always the crime that it is made out to be. I do not know the exact details in this case so have no opinion on it other than at a first glance seeing it as an irresponsible act. There are huge amounts of kids in this country with irresponsible parent(s) though.

Oranage2

What I don't get is how people just left the baby in a pram as they're leaving. Any decent human would try contact a family member or even the gardai, but no, some of the last people left knowing there was a baby in a pram. Sick animals.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765045#Comment_117765045

The primary role of healthcare professionals is to see that the child is safe and well. So lets nip that one on the bud first.

The second role is to see if the child is being abused or has suffered abuse at the hands of caregivers, unless you think children shoulld be handed back to their abusers, no questions asked.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765076#Comment_117765076

You’re not nipping anything in the bud, you’re just presenting an entirely different set of circumstances where there is evidence of a child being abused, not circumstances where a child appears to have been unintentionally abandoned.

markodaly

Not at all. I am familiar with scenarios like this and there is a set of protocols put in place where if the circumstances presented themselves, the medical professional and people in Tusla have every right to withhold from handing back the child to the parents/caregivers.

Such a scenario was evident here, otherwise, why did a judge get involved?

Are you saying Tusla and the nurses and doctors shouldn't do their job?

tabby aspreme

That child was subject to Willfull Neglect, and hopefully those involved will be charged accordingly. We need another NGO to promote safe outdoor drinking with infants, it may help reduce infant mortality in the community, which currently is three times the national average