Buying a Pistol

DocKS123

How quick are Gunshop.ie at getting a firearm? they have a great variety of pistols and was interested in getting a MARK IV 22/45 Lite which is out of stock, do any of you have experience of dealing with them?

LIFFY FISHING

DocKS123 wrote: »

How quick are Gunshop.ie at getting a firearm? they have a great variety of pistols and was interested in getting a MARK IV 22/45 Lite which is out of stock, do any of you have experience of dealing

No dealer has new pistols for sale, they all can only obtain a serial number for you and pending the granting of your licence then they can apply for an import licence, this is not a quick process by any means, worth calling RFD's to see what they may have as used stock, sometimes they have mint used pistols .

DocKS123

Thank you who is RFD?

LIFFY FISHING

DocKS123 wrote: »

Thank you who is RFD?

RFD is ...Registered Firearm Dealers...there is a link in this group for them, what county are you in ?

clivej

Or you could find the handgun you want second hand. Call the dealers as listed and see whats for sale.

PSXDupe

Talk to Ivan in Top Gun Sports. He'll get you one no problem.

mallow98

PSXDupe wrote: »

Talk to Ivan in Top Gun Sports. He'll get you one no problem.

Pictures of a MK IV 22/45 Lite that came from Ivan, few upgrades added.

Where did you purchase the grips? Lovely looking pistol!

PSXDupe

mallow98 wrote: »

Where did you purchase the grips? Lovely looking pistol!

Brownells in Germany

Excavo

DocKS123 wrote: »

How quick are Gunshop.ie at getting a firearm? they have a great variety of pistols and was interested in getting a MARK IV 22/45 Lite which is out of stock, do any of you have experience of dealing with them?

I buy my ammo there. Very good service from Patrick.

PSXDupe

@DocKS123

You really need to check with the RFD to see where they are importing the pistol from. If it is coming from the USA, expect 6-9 months+.
If it's coming from europe and if it is a European made gun then it could be a little as 2-4 weeks from the time you get you licence.

The RFD needs an import permit to bring the gun in, they need a copy of you licence to attach to the import permit application. So the step are

1. RFD get a serial number from their supplier
2. You apply for your licence with that serial
3. RFD apply for an import permit, take about 2 weeks to get that
4. RFD sends that permit to the supplier
5. Supplier then applies for an export permit
6. Then the gun ships, most times if the gun can be broken it will ship in two seperate parcels for security.

Step 1,2, 5, there is no definite time line, some times it happens quickly, sometime it will break your heart.

In summary anywhere from a month to a year, in fact I know poeple who waited longer but that was for a very specific pistol.

jb88

To make life very easy, ring a few dealers in NI and ask them what they have? If you cant find a dealer in ROI who has what you want.
If they have what you want, then buy it and find a dealer in ROI to transfer it to and they will give you a letter to use for your application. Once you have a licence you can go and pick up the firearm.

Very easy.
Or just PM me.
All of this is made out to be much more complicated than it actually is. With competent people involved on both sides its a very simple process. Its just most ROI dealers want to make it sound difficult to get paid more. Individuals who do it want to make it seem like they have split the atom.
Once you have a licence for a firearm its legally imported.

PSXDupe

@JB88

No one said the process was difficult, however it is extremely slow. Dealers up north very rarely have new 22LR pistol either. The reason being you can licence full bore pistol just as easy as a rimfire pistol up North.

You also have the fact the you cannot have pistols in the UK so therefore the dealers up North are really only dealing with a small customer base.

If you want a specific pistol, then you need to order it and wait.

I am speaking from experience, I have had pistol licences granted within 2 weeks and 2 more weeks for an import permit from Germany and another week for a pistol to arrive from Germany, totaling 5-6 weeks.

I have also had S&W pistols coming from the USA which took almost 11 months to get here.

It is a complicate enough process for dealers to get the pistol in. For the end user it is the same process as always, get a serial, apply, get your licence and collect your firearm, that doesn't change, just can take a lot longer when it comes to pistols.

When it comes to price, most dealers down south will give you a better price for the same pistol as up north.

PSXDupe

@JB88

One point I forgot, a dealer up North cannot simply transfer the pistol to a dealer down South.

The dealer down south still needs an import permit, which still needs a copy of the end users licence. So even if you find a pistol up north, the process is still the same for the dealer down south, still needs an import permit etc.

So when the end user gets their licence, they cannot go pick it up, because it will still take a number of weeks for the transfer to happen (post granting of the licence)

BattleCorp

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

No dealer has new pistols for sale, they all can only obtain a serial number for you and pending the granting of your licence then they can apply for an import licence,

I'm happy to be corrected but are the DOJ/PTB making up the law here?

Why can dealers bring in new rifles and keep them in their regular stock but can't do the same for pistols?

tudderone

https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk-3-target-.22-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-7024


https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk2-target-.22-lr-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-6723


https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk2-target-.22-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-8759

PSXDupe

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm happy to be corrected but are the DOJ/PTB making up the law here?

Why can dealers bring in new rifles and keep them in their regular stock but can't do the same for pistols?

Doesn't really matter if they are or not, a dealer will not get an import permit with a copy of the end user licence when it comes to pistols

PSXDupe

All these pistol are in stock in Germany and would be here within 2-3 weeks from an licence being issued.

RUGER Mark IV 22/45 Standard 4,75"
RUGER Mark IV Hunter 6,88" stainless
RUGER Mark IV Target 5,5" blued
RUGER Mark IV Target 5,5" stainless
RUGER Mark IV Hunter 6,88" stainless
CZ P-07 Kadet .22LR
WALTHER PPQ M2 5" black 12-rounds .22 l.r.
RUGER Pistol SR 22
COLT 1911 A1

BattleCorp

PSXDupe wrote: »

Does really matter is they are or not, a dealer will not get an import permit with a copy of the end user licence when it comes to pistols

It does matter becase the DOJ/Gardai et al all have to obey the law as it is and can't go making up sh1te.

Again, I'm on a roll with being wrong in the last few weeks :o:o but I'm not aware of any legislation saying that pistols must be licenced in the State before they can be imported into the State.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

It does matter becase the DOJ/Gardai et al all have to obey the law as it is and can't go making up sh1te.

Again, I'm on a roll with being wrong in the last few weeks :o:o but I'm not aware of any legislation saying that pistols must be licenced in the State before they can be imported into the State.

Oh Battlecorp..............be your age

PSXDupe

BattleCorp wrote: »

It does matter becase the DOJ/Gardai et al all have to obey the law as it is and can't go making up sh1te.

Again, I'm on a roll with being wrong in the last few weeks :o:o but I'm not aware of any legislation saying that pistols must be licenced in the State before they can be imported into the State.

If really only matters if you want to take them to court about it, or simply apply for your licence and then import. No dealer wants to pick a fight with the DOJ.

I think you are right, legally there is no difference but the DOJ will not issue an import permit for a pistol without a copy of the end user licence.

DocKS123

Thanks, everyone for your comments

Wadi14

A couple of things as I read this thread,

1. DocKS123 you have to be a member of a shooting club/range to get a pistol license.

2. I have like many here imported firearms personally myself from Germany, one of the conditions when completing the importation form is that when submitting you attach a copy of a valid firearms license.

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm happy to be corrected but are the DOJ/PTB making up the law here?

Yes.

Why can dealers bring in new rifles and keep them in their regular stock but can't do the same for pistols?

They can if they want to.

PSXDupe wrote: »

Doesn't really matter if they are or not, a dealer will not get an import permit with a copy of the end user licence when it comes to pistols

Yes they can.

BattleCorp wrote: »

It does matter becase the DOJ/Gardai et al all have to obey the law as it is and can't go making up sh1te.

Correct.

Again, I'm on a roll with being wrong in the last few weeks :o:o but I'm not aware of any legislation saying that pistols must be licenced in the State before they can be imported into the State.

You're on the money so far and as for legislation, there is none.

PSXDupe wrote: »

If really only matters if you want to take them to court about it, or simply apply for your licence and then import. No dealer wants to pick a fight with the DOJ.

Was already done.

Ardee sports took a high court action for this very reason (the DoJ refusing to allow import of certain guns unless the person was licensed first) and they [Ardee] won.

I think you are right, legally there is no difference but the DOJ will not issue an import permit for a pistol without a copy of the end user licence.

As Battlecorp said, making up their own version and leave it long enough that people think its the law.

Wadi14 wrote: »

2. I have like many here imported firearms personally myself from Germany, one of the conditions when completing the importation form is that when submitting you attach a copy of a valid firearms license.

For personal importations, absolutely. For an RFD, not needed.

I understand some RFDs will demand this because it serves their needs. If the person is licensed they tend not to back out of a deal so the risk to the RFD being left a pistol they don't want or cannot sell is diminished.

However the law and the high court case, both say an RFD can import any firearm or components as is permitted to be licensed/owned in the state in the course of their business.

The DoJ push this lie because it suits their agenda of reducing the amount of pistols in the country.

Wadi14

Of course you are correct in what you say Cas, but when it comes to DOJ and RFD's I don't think either know the law, and I get the point that DSXDupe makes as I'm guessing his RFD as with mine as with a lot of RFD's wont bring you in a pistol prior to you licensing it.

Same way as they will try and sell you the 223 they have in the shop when you want the 243 ordered, or put up a web site but don't include prices as the dealer down the road might see how much he is making on the item.
A lot of things are just too much bother for them.

Cass

Wadi14 wrote: »

........ as I'm guessing his RFD as with mine as with a lot of RFD's wont bring you in a pistol prior to you licensing it.

My points above are not a chastization merely pointing out that Battelcorp is right. There is no law to prevent an RFD bringing in whatever they want as part of their business.

How others do it is, as you pointed out, another matter.

I said about two years ago the very same thing. The law doesn't stop them doing it but what they choose to do is their own business and to an extent i understand it. Pistol shooting in terms of shooting sports is still not a huge market. So it doesn't make sense for a dealer to stock even a few dfferent types of pistols that may never sell.

My issue with this is the demand for a license before they bring one in is the misleading and as this thread kinda shows, incorrect opinion that an RFD cannot import a pistol without it being licensed first. In other words misinformation. This policy could simply be substituted with a different, and equally secure, policy of asking for full payment up front. IOW at this point the RFD has no risk as the firearm is paid for.

I appreciate that the RFDs may be demanding licenses so that not only is the pistol paid for but once it arrives its gone off their premises too. IOW they may be paid but don't want 2, 5, 10, 30 pistols sitting on their premises waiting for licenses that may or may not come which leads to the whole returning, refunding, selling problems associated with license refusal for the applicant.

Grizzly 45

PSXDupe wrote: »

All these pistol are in stock in Germany and would be here within 2-3 weeks from a licence being issued.

Just a quick heads up on German imports;
Make sure the dealer can get a quick police export clearance cert, as many of the police depts that handle the export permits are understaffed a or down on the person that does this suffering from COVID.:eek:

I have a Ruger mini 14 stuck in a dealer to dealer transfer since Sept, because of the paperwork backlog, and it's not helped by the VERY short window by EU standards our DOJ issues these import certs for either.
So an email or phone call might be worth a lot of messing about with your German dealer just to see what sort of paperwork backlog the Covid is causing.

SVI40

Be sure to check the cost of shipping from Germany! I bought a pistol there about 18 months ago, and had to fork our €400.00 between fees, taxes and shipping costs. The pistol was €390.00!

No idea if I was taken for a ride or not, but shipping agent was adamant that was the cost of shipping from Germany.

tudderone

SVI40 wrote: »

Be sure to check the cost of shipping from Germany! I bought a pistol there about 18 months ago, and had to fork our €400.00 between fees, taxes and shipping costs. The pistol was €390.00!

No idea if I was taken for a ride or not, but shipping agent was adamant that was the cost of shipping from Germany.

Jebus, that sounds a bit salty :eek:

SVI40

tudderone wrote: »

Jebus, that sounds a bit salty :eek:

Tell me about it! Spoke to a pal of mine who is a firearms dealer in Germany, and he says he no longer exports with courier as it's too much hassle and costly. He will bring it to a competition for you though, so it is handy. He's also a sponsored shooter so travels extensively.

Grizzly 45

SVI40 wrote: »

Be sure to check the cost of shipping from Germany! I bought a pistol there about 18 months ago, and had to fork our €400.00 between fees, taxes and shipping costs. The pistol was €390.00!

No idea if I was taken for a ride or not, but shipping agent was adamant that was the cost of shipping from Germany.

BIGLY!!! Should cost not much more than 100 euros just on shipping.
Use this www.waffentaxi.de and it is 125 euros collected from Germany to your door or gun dealer. Who did he send it with?That sounds like DHL/Deutsche post prices.:eek:
The std fee FIK is the police processing the export cert and that's 50 euros.

PSXDupe

Franktonia charge €300-400 because they use freight companies to ship. Don't buy from them.

Shipping from German has never taken long at all. I always get it via a Irish RFD.

Go to a decent RFD here and let them sort it for you. Thats the easiest way.

SVI40

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BIGLY!!! Should cost not much more than 100 euros just on shipping.
Use this www.waffentaxi.de and it is 125 euros collected from Germany to your door or gun dealer. Who did he send it with?That sounds like DHL/Deutsche post prices.:eek:
The std fee FIK is the police processing the export cert and that's 50 euros.

Now you tell me!! :pac:

Here's the breakdown.

tudderone

I remember when the pistols came back, a dealer telling me he ordered four pistols from Germany, and not really knowing the form waited until a securicor or similar to pull up in a van and deliver them.

He came home one morning and the postman had just left four boxes in his porch, The German dealer had just popped them in the post :eek:.

SVI40

tudderone wrote: »

I remember when the pistols came back, a dealer telling me he ordered four pistols from Germany, and not really knowing the form waited until a securicor or similar to pull up in a van and deliver them.

He came home one morning and the postman had just left four boxes in his porch, The German dealer had just popped them in the post :eek:.

Yep, when I bought my SV pistol, it was sent standard post, back in 2008.

smmember20

tudderone wrote: »

https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk-3-target-.22-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-7024


https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk2-target-.22-lr-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-6723


https://gundeal.co.uk/ruger-mk2-target-.22-.pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-8759

MKIII Target is a very good deal at £350 however if for target shooting I'd receommend a Volquarsten upgrade of the internals about €150.00, all steel and a very good balance for target shooting, have the MKIV equivalent in SS and it is a fantastic pistol. VQ also do great magazine bases that allow positive insertion and extraction for target shooting events.
MKIII is a good deal would I prefer the MKIV absolutley
Some small issues with MKIII
Loaded Chamber indicator, needs removal and blanking
Bolt Stop does not have auto release, means you have to depress the bolt stop to allow the bolt to go forward, VQ do an auto release replacement.
MKIII has the akward disasembly and assembly process, really not difficult but when you have field stripped a MKIV once you will not tend to want a MKIII
Biggest advantage of the MKIII as advertised: You can buy it tomorrow, licence it and arrange transfer to a dealer down south once licensed..............

Last but not least Ruger MKIV pistols have become very expensive if you look at the German dealers sites, looking for about €995 for the Target MKIV SS
Reload Shop associated with NITSA just North of Newry is worth a call for a price on new units. Prices usually better than importing from Germany as they source them from the UK I believe

smmember20

SVI40 wrote: »

Yep, when I bought my SV pistol, it was sent standard post, back in 2008.

Whats an SV, never heard of one of them?

tudderone

smmember20 wrote: »

MKIII Target is a very good deal at £350 however if for target shooting I'd receommend a Volquarsten upgrade of the internals about €150.00, all steel and a very good balance for target shooting, have the MKIV equivalent in SS and it is a fantastic pistol. VQ also do great magazine bases that allow positive insertion and extraction for target shooting events.
MKIII is a good deal would I prefer the MKIV absolutley
Some small issues with MKIII
Loaded Chamber indicator, needs removal and blanking
Bolt Stop does not have auto release, means you have to depress the bolt stop to allow the bolt to go forward, VQ do an auto release replacement.
MKIII has the akward disasembly and assembly process, really not difficult but when you have field stripped a MKIV once you will not tend to want a MKIII
Biggest advantage of the MKIII as advertised: You can buy it tomorrow, licence it and arrange transfer to a dealer down south once licensed..............

Last but not least Ruger MKIV pistols have become very expensive if you look at the German dealers sites, looking for about €995 for the Target MKIV SS
Reload Shop associated with NITSA just North of Newry is worth a call for a price on new units.

Ruger make great firearms. I have had a few ruger rifles, one ruger revolver, and one of their pistols, all excellent. But i have to say i find the Ruger .22 semi-auto pistols heavy, especially if long barreled.

smmember20

tudderone wrote: »

Ruger make great firearms. I have had a few ruger rifles, one ruger revolver, and one of their pistols, all excellent. But i have to say i find the Ruger .22 semi-auto pistols heavy, especially if long barreled.

5.5" target all steel, are well balanced, not the 22/45

22/45 tend to be barrel heavy because pistol grip and body is composite/aluminium and not steel

tudderone

This one ? Never seen one here, all either hunter or target variants.

https://www.ruger.com/products/markIVStandard/models.html

smmember20

tudderone wrote: »

This one ? Never seen one here, all either hunter or target variants.

https://www.ruger.com/products/markIVStandard/models.html

https://www.ruger.com/products/markIVTarget/specSheets/40103.html

This is what I have!

SVI40

smmember20 wrote: »

Whats an SV, never heard of one of them?

Custom 1911/2011 pistols manufactured in Texas. Probably the best made 1911/2011 there are.

https://www.sviguns.com/

Munsterlad102

tudderone wrote: »

I remember when the pistols came back, a dealer telling me he ordered four pistols from Germany, and not really knowing the form waited until a securicor or similar to pull up in a van and deliver them.

He came home one morning and the postman had just left four boxes in his porch, The German dealer had just popped them in the post :eek:.

Did they just go straight through customs or was there paperwork? What I mean is did revenue know they were imported?

Peppa Cig

PSXDupe wrote: »

Franktonia charge €300-400 because they use freight companies to ship. Don't buy from them.

Shipping from German has never taken long at all. I always get it via a Irish RFD.

Go to a decent RFD here and let them sort it for you. Thats the easiest way.

Who’s on your list of decent RFD’s?

Thanks

tudderone

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Did they just go straight through customs or was there paperwork? What I mean is did revenue know they were imported?

Yes as far as i know it was perfectly legal. The pistols had licences and article 7 import permits. The German end was satisfied, and just sent them out by post.

Munsterlad102

tudderone wrote: »

Yes as far as i know it was perfectly legal. The pistols had licences and article 7 import permits. The German end was satisfied, and just sent them out by post.

Oh I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't legal, I just wasn't sure if the importation procedure was and different 15 years ago. Still though, its very interesting to see revenue stop a wooden stock but let handguns go through, very interesting priorities

PSXDupe

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Who’s on your list of decent RFD’s?

Thanks

Any dealer that will get you what you want and not try sell you want they have.

PSXDupe

smmember20 wrote: »

5.5" target all steel, are well balanced, not the 22/45

22/45 tend to be barrel heavy because pistol grip and body is composite/aluminium and not steel

Not exactly true, there are more 22/45 Lite models than 22/45. This is an upgraded MK IV 22/44 Lite, a super gun and no way barrel heavy.

smmember20

PSXDupe wrote: »

Not exactly true, there are more 22/45 Lite models than 22/45. This is an upgraded MK IV 22/44 Lite, a super gun and no way barrel heavy.

True, thanks overlooked that version my opinion was based on a mkiii 22/45 target that I have.

Personally for target shooting with any timed practices I prefer a heavier gun as it helps recover the sight picture faster in my view!!

Mkiv target as is about 1.2kg
Mkiii target 22/45 just under .95kg
Mag adds .1kg to either

smmember20

PSXDupe wrote: »

Not exactly true, there are more 22/45 Lite models than 22/45. This is an upgraded MK IV 22/44 Lite, a super gun and no way barrel heavy.

Just adding a pic of my VI the mag has a VQ base plate bought in packs of 5 they are numbered which is handy

MkIV has full VQ upgrade including SS trigger, factory original is black and not in keeping with the rest of the gun. 🙂

PSXDupe

smmember20 wrote: »

True, thanks overlooked that version my opinion was based on a mkiii 22/45 target that I have.

Personally for target shooting with any timed practices I prefer a heavier gun as it helps recover the sight picture faster in my view!!

Mkiv target as is about 1.2kg
Mkiii target 22/45 just under .95kg
Mag adds .1kg to either

I haven't used a 22/45 Lite in competition. I use (like you said) the heavier pistols for that. This is the MK IV Competition that I'd use, but the 22/45 Lite will be used for competition also this year.

Picture show the 22/45 Lite before any upgrades and my MK IV Competition, you can see the difference in grip angle, different but equally nice to hold.

smmember20

PSXDupe wrote: »

I haven't used a 22/45 Lite in competition. I use (like you said) the heavier pistols for that. This is the MK IV Competition that I'd use, but the 22/45 Lite will be used for competition also this year.

Picture show the 22/45 Lite before any upgrades and my MK IV Competition, you can see the difference in grip angle, different but equally nice to hold.

Look great:

I can highly recommend the VQ bases for the competition MKIV makes mag changes very easy and improves handling between mag changes

https://volquartsen.com/products/1346-magazine-base-pads-for-ruger-mk-iv