To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Beasty

Welcome to Part 2 of the Masks discussion.

Please remember to stay civil - there are two sides to this debate and just because someone disagrees with you does not make that other person or indeed you a troll. However being uncivil to others is likely to result in threadbans, cards or indeed forum bans.

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Original thread here.

funnydoggy

Had tears rolling down my face when I first saw this :pac:

bobbyy gee

You can always wear a bag instead

arccosh

obligatory yellow star post...

(technically should be black triangle with blöd on it though, for anyone intending to mis-use an exclusion reason imo)

Rubberchikken

Yes I'll wear one in shops etc but only as they're mandatory. Left up to me I wouldn't bother.

I wear one at work all the time, 12 hours, tested regularly so I honestly get a bit tired of having to swear them in shops but will continue:)

s1ippy

Thanks so much, vast majority of fellow citizens.

To people with underlying conditions who may have poor outcomes from covid, it means a great deal to be able to move around in public and be less at risk because of the actions of everyone around them. You're protecting yourselves from adverse effects of the virus too, but plenty choose not to bother themselves or want to make some sort of stand. Moreover, if you're not putting yourselves at risk of infection you'll be less of a risk to everyone else generally. So nice one for being selfless enough to go to the trouble of buying and wearing the mask.

Anti-maskers have the luxury of choice that they do in Ireland because enforcement doesn't seem to be a priority. Possibly, to the mind of the various groups responsible for ensuring compliance, implementing mandatory mask wearing would cause more grief than it's worth. But consider the immediacy of a hostile confrontation with a member of the public against the slow burning impact of whatever cases of covid could be prevented by the maskless person exercising due care not to spread the virus.

A more staunch, cohesive and less tolerant domestic approach to face coverings would clearly have benefit in curbing transmission at this point, as the cases are starting to increase. This message really needs to come from the highest ranks of government and the public should be informed that that this isn't up for debate, access to publically frequented spaces is curtailed when you pose a threat to public health there by not masking up. If you refuse to comply, you can either go away or you can plough on anyway and be detained and fined.

It's easier now more than ever to spot the people who think it'll never affect them; whole groups in society can't conceive of how the potential negative outcomes from contracting covid are worth inconveniencing themselves for. Unfortunately I can envisage tabloids publishing tales of woe of former mask opponents, who live in regret of their misguided decision to engage in some adolescent act of defiance.

To me, it's just tragic that some actual adults on this island don't have the empathy to consider the perspective of another; I know that for some, it takes that short, sharp shock of actual grief or a moral fear to jolt a person into reality and enable them to see things in life or death terms, the way many people do every day.

I can't give a deadline on when we'll stop wearing them but suffice to say it won't be forever. Let's all make it to whenever that is with only minor grievances! Sorry about the long post, thanks if you read it and nice one again for wearing a mask to those who do. I hope maybe reading it from the perspective of somebody who stands to lose a lot might change somebody's mind about their position on masks.

If I haven't changed your mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNIZofPB8ZM

Had a laugh in a shop yesterday. A two year old kept trying to pull the mask off his mothers face, and generally being intolerant. The mother was calmly trying to explain to the chap that everyone needed to were a mask. Eventually she turned around and pointed to a man a said - look, everyone is wearing a mask. The man she happened to point at was the first person I have seen not wearing a mask in a shop in at least a week. He looked like he wanted the ground to swallow him up.

I also saw 3 boys, probably about 18, walking towards a shop entrance today. One of them took out his mask, and asked the others where their masks were. When they said they had none, he told them to wait outside as he wasn’t going in with them if the were not wearing masks, to which they meekly complied

Gregor Samsa

You see a lot of people wearing their mask over their mouth but leaving their nose exposed. But I saw a guy in the supermarket last month wearing an unfolded paper mask just across his nose, leaving his mouth completely uncovered. He had a big, red fat jowley head, with this thin blue band across the middle. It was like some kind of face-thong. Gave me a good laugh anyway.

VG31

Are staff in hotels and restaurants required to wear masks?

yourdeadwright

Common sense says yes of course,

No one has a problem with wearing a seat belt when 99% of the time you don't need it ,
For god sake people have no problem wearing a swimming hat when they go to a swimming pool

Just pop the mask thing on when you on a bus ,Trian , shop or where its asked no big deal at all,
If it works fantastic if they don't at least you tried to be a decent human ,

Snails pace

In my local town it seems that the whole Covid 19 and the necessity to wear masks doesn't apply to people. I went into a shop to pay for fuel, myself and 2 other people were wearing masks. Two men serving had masks on but were on their head. Two other people working in the deli had no masks and 4 other people in the shop had no masks on. The level of people's stupidity and ignorance never fails to amaze me.

Pitch n Putt

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Common sense says yes of course,

No one has a problem with wearing a seat belt when 99% of the time you don't need it ,
For god sake people have no problem wearing a swimming hat when they go to a swimming pool

Just pop the mask thing on when you on a bus ,Trian , shop or where its asked no big deal at all,
If it works fantastic if they don't at least you tried to be a decent human ,

This is what’s completely wrong with masks and the categorising of somebody who doesn’t wear a mask as some sort of lower human

Mask should be a choice and not a means to judge people.

If you want to wear a mask wear it but don’t judge others.

The pro mask high and mighty brigade will be along to proclaim the end of society if you don’t wear a mask or face covering and that your selfish and yada yada yada etc.

yourdeadwright

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is what’s completely wrong with masks and the categorising of somebody who doesn’t wear a mask as some sort of lower human

Mask should be a choice and not a means to judge people.

If you want to wear a mask wear it but don’t judge others.

The pro mask high and mighty brigade will be along to proclaim the end of society if you don’t wear a mask or face covering and that your selfish and yada yada yada etc.

Its human nature to judge other on there actions ,
If you refuse to wear a mask just because then iv every right to hold my own personally opinion of you ,

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is what’s completely wrong with masks and the categorising of somebody who doesn’t wear a mask as some sort of lower human
Mask should be a choice and not a means to judge people.
If you want to wear a mask wear it but don’t judge others.

Why should they be a choice?
We don't allow smoking in public places or drink driving to be a personal choice.
Masks fall into the same category as they relate to a measure to protect others i.e. on public health grounds in public places.
We're not mandating masks to protect the wearer.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why should they be a choice?
We don't allow smoking in public places or drink driving to be a personal choice.
Masks fall into the same category as they relate to a measure to protect others i.e. on public health grounds in public places.
We're not mandating masks to protect the wearer.

We're mandating masks to allow a lot more people to move around, what the claimed reason is doesn't matter. COVID doesn't care and it's still spreading!

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

We're mandating masks to allow a lot more people to move around, what the claimed reason is doesn't matter. COVID doesn't care and it's still spreading!

As noted earlier on the thread, there are possible indications that masks reduce viral load so reduce the severity of the cases, and may mean more asymptomatic cases.

sabat

s1ippy wrote: »

Thanks so much, vast majority of fellow citizens.

To people with underlying conditions who may have poor outcomes from covid, it means a great deal to be able to move around in public and be less at risk because of the actions of everyone around them. You're protecting yourselves from adverse effects of the virus too, but plenty choose not to bother themselves or want to make some sort of stand. Moreover, if you're not putting yourselves at risk of infection you'll be less of a risk to everyone else generally. So nice one for being selfless enough to go to the trouble of buying and wearing the mask.

Anti-maskers have the luxury of choice that they do in Ireland because enforcement doesn't seem to be a priority. Possibly, to the mind of the various groups responsible for ensuring compliance, implementing mandatory mask wearing would cause more grief than it's worth. But consider the immediacy of a hostile confrontation with a member of the public against the slow burning impact of whatever cases of covid could be prevented by the maskless person exercising due care not to spread the virus.

A more staunch, cohesive and less tolerant domestic approach to face coverings would clearly have benefit in curbing transmission at this point, as the cases are starting to increase. This message really needs to come from the highest ranks of government and the public should be informed that that this isn't up for debate, access to publically frequented spaces is curtailed when you pose a threat to public health there by not masking up. If you refuse to comply, you can either go away or you can plough on anyway and be detained and fined.

It's easier now more than ever to spot the people who think it'll never affect them; whole groups in society can't conceive of how the potential negative outcomes from contracting covid are worth inconveniencing themselves for. Unfortunately I can envisage tabloids publishing tales of woe of former mask opponents, who live in regret of their misguided decision to engage in some adolescent act of defiance.

To me, it's just tragic that some actual adults on this island don't have the empathy to consider the perspective of another; I know that for some, it takes that short, sharp shock of actual grief or a moral fear to jolt a person into reality and enable them to see things in life or death terms, the way many people do every day.

I can't give a deadline on when we'll stop wearing them but suffice to say it won't be forever. Let's all make it to whenever that is with only minor grievances! Sorry about the long post, thanks if you read it and nice one again for wearing a mask to those who do. I hope maybe reading it from the perspective of somebody who stands to lose a lot might change somebody's mind about their position on masks.

[/YouTube]

So you believe there's a deadly virus running free that poses an immediate threat to your life and you're walking around in public? And that those poxy masks are sufficient to protect you? That doesn't really tally does it? Why aren't you wearing a hazmat suit or staying indoors in a plastic bubble? I know you think your post is some "voice of reason" plea for the common good, but it's not. You're a cowardly little fascist getting a buzz from being part of the mob vilifying dissenters. This is your real message:

...more staunch... less tolerant... . from the highest ranks of government... this isn't up for debate, access to publically frequented spaces is curtailed when you pose a threat to public health.... If you refuse to comply, you can either go away or...be detained and fined.

This is just the same 'theatre of fear' nonsense as making 80 year old Irish pensioners take off their shoes in airports. I know I'll get a ban for this post, but enough is enough. This has been bollocks for at least four months now. Where were the masks in April, May and June? Go ahead and call me names or question my intelligence-remember the 80% of Americans who believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11? That's who you mask fascists are. Programmed credulous suckers.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

As noted earlier on the thread, there are possible indications that masks reduce viral load so reduce the severity of the cases, and may mean more asymptomatic cases.

Possible is not proof and households is where it's spreading, not all due to people being asymptomatic.

Mr E

sabat wrote: »

I know I'll get a ban for this post, but enough is enough. This has been bollocks for at least four months now. Where were the masks in April, May and June? Go ahead and call me names or question my intelligence-remember the 80% of Americans who believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11? That's who you mask fascists are. Programmed credulous suckers.

Mod: Not going to ban you for having an opinion (and a dissenting opinion at that), but tone down the angry rhetoric please. You can make your point without spitting fire.

Deebles McBeebles

Mr E wrote: »

You can make your point without spitting fire.

And saliva, hopefully.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Possible is not proof and households is where it's spreading, not all due to people being asymptomatic.

That's why I used the word possible.
We're picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases.

I don't know what you mean re: households and spreading in this particular context.
We can contact trace households.
Masks are about limiting community transmission to keep the clusters confined to those households and their contacts.

Rubberchikken

I see the point raised of where were the masks earlier on in this and I can remember agreeing with the reasoning that they should be left for the health care sector but it has galled a bit to have the who/govt say they're not any help to the general public initially then when seemingly all else failed, they change tact and make them mandatory in certain settings.

It gave me a sense of we haven't a clue what we're doing but we'll struggle on and the public will never realise.

Pitch n Putt

is_that_so wrote: »

We're mandating masks to allow a lot more people to move around, what the claimed reason is doesn't matter. COVID doesn't care and it's still spreading!

So has the common flu spread every year but people didn’t turn into some fear induced panic ridden race.

JP Liz V1

I'm wearing a mask everywhere, uncomfortable for long periods but if it helps so be it

odyssey06

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I see the point raised of where were the masks earlier on in this and I can remember agreeing with the reasoning that they should be left for the health care sector but it has galled a bit to have the who/govt say they're not any help to the general public initially then when seemingly all else failed, they change tact and make them mandatory in certain settings.
It gave me a sense of we haven't a clue what we're doing but we'll struggle on and the public will never realise.

That was when we didn't have enough masks and they were being considered from the perspective of PPE to protect an uninfected person encountering an infected person. And most masks are not to the standard as PPE that they will do that reliably.

Now the perspective is on wearing them as a barrier to contain the droplets of an infected person. The standard for such masks to contain the droplets is lower, that's why it's now advice for the general public re: masks and coverings.

I do think our authorities here were very slow to come around on masks and perhaps they haven't explained very well that shift from PPE to barrier.

But I'm not sure what you'd have preferred, to stick with what was said in spring even as they see new data and new comparison examples from other countries?
Would you really expect the authorities in spring to have all the answers to a virus they only saw for the first time in 2020?

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

So has the common flu spread every year but people didn’t turn into some fear induced panic ridden race.

Just the flu bro? Go back to February 2020 when that was a position worthy of any serious consideration.
Your nonsense about panic hidden race will be ignored as a rant.

Mrs OBumble

Rubberchikken wrote: »

It gave me a sense of we haven't a clue what we're doing but we'll struggle on and the public will never realise.

Humankind really don't know what we're doing yet

No one has a clue about the long term effects of this virus.

And the effectiveness of any mitigation measure, when applied in any particular culture, need to be worked out through trial and error. This is of course informed by scientific study, but it's the road test that gives the real world results.

yourdeadwright

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

So has the common flu spread every year but people didn’t turn into some fear induced panic ridden race.

Absolute nonsense argument ,

How many people died of the Flu in Ireland in 2019 ….less than 30
Over a thousand have died of Covid in 6 months ,

Don't forget there have been extreme measure in place for them 6 months to try and stop the spread if they where not there the number would be hugely higher,

Comparing it to the Flu shows a serve lack of intelligence

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's why I used the word possible.
We're picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases.

I don't know what you mean re: households and spreading in this particular context.
We can contact trace households.
Masks are about limiting community transmission to keep the clusters confined to those households and their contacts.

Nah, it's primarily to allow people out and about. The limiting in our case was done by the other far more important and effective measures aided by testing and isolating. If they were really limiting transmission we would see that reflected in the numbers.

is_that_so

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

So has the common flu spread every year but people didn’t turn into some fear induced panic ridden race.

There are vaccines for flu' which mitigate the number of deaths. This is completely new and nobody knew how they were going to react to it. Our views of it have changed in the 7 months since it arrived.

Graham

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is what’s completely wrong with masks and the categorising of somebody who doesn’t wear a mask as some sort of lower human

Mask should be a choice and not a means to judge people.

Of course people are going to be judged.

If someone goes running around the M50 because they think road-safety is a government conspiracy, you're probably going to think 'what a pillock'.

If the traffic-dodger then tells you they watched a Youtube video and read a Facebook post saying traffic was mostly harmless, you're likely to think 'what a really big pillock'.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Nah, it's primarily to allow people out and about. The limiting in our case was done by the other far more important and effective measures aided by testing and isolating. If they were really limiting transmission we would see that reflected in the numbers.

"Primarily to allow people out and about"
I don't know what this means.

The measures which flattened the curve were not sustainable in the long run. Those measures had to be lifted. Who said only masks were needed and it was a like for like substitution? That seems to be the implication of your argument.
There were lots of other measures and it is not valid to compare masks to the entire lockdown measures so Im not clear on what point you are making there.

Masks are about limiting the transmission now those measures have lifted, in specific settings of community transmission - which by their nature are challenging to track and trace. It is one weapon in the arsenal along with distancing, track and trace, isolation etc. You present it as an either OR.
So, how do you know that's not reflected in the numbers.

larva

The masks im wearing are the typical ones, those that when you breath you get fogged up glasses and feel like Darth Vader. Eye contact seems at an all time high, im winking at people quite a lot instead of frowning. They make sense to use though when going into enclosed spaces. I dont get why some people refuse to use them, its not like you have them on 24/7, it can only do at least some good for what is a very minor inconvenience.

odyssey06

larva wrote: »

The masks im wearing are the typical ones, those that when you breath you get fogged up glasses and feel like Darth Vader. Eye contact seems at an all time high, im winking at people quite a lot instead of frowning. They make sense to use though when going into enclosed spaces. I dont get why some people refuse to use them, its not like you have them on 24/7, it can only do at least some good for what is a very minor inconvenience.

The fogging up is a pain. This helps:
Breathe out through nose.
Pinch the metal strip tightly to bridge of nose.

Some people suggest:
Moving your glasses further out along nose to secure top of mask on nose.
Surgical tape at top of mask to seal it off under your eyes.

Irish Aris

odyssey06 wrote: »

The fogging up is a pain. This helps:
Breathe out through nose.
Pinch the metal strip tightly to bridge of nose.

Some people suggest:
Moving your glasses further out along nose to secure top of mask on nose.
Surgical tape at top of mask to seal it off under your eyes.

I can confirm that the bold part works perfectly.
I use primarily disposable masks and always make sure to buy ones with an adjustable nose bridge.

Jim_Hodge

larva wrote: »

The masks im wearing are the typical ones, those that when you breath you get fogged up glasses and feel like Darth Vader. Eye contact seems at an all time high, im winking at people quite a lot instead of frowning. They make sense to use though when going into enclosed spaces. I dont get why some people refuse to use them, its not like you have them on 24/7, it can only do at least some good for what is a very minor inconvenience.

I had serious fogging issues. Metal strip did not help. Nor did washing glasses with soap.
Finally I got an Olson mask and once the top of the mask is slightly under the glasses it's perfect. Not had a problem since.

saabsaab

Some say that putting some tissue inside at the top of the mask stops the fogging.

Brendog

Another instance of mask intolerance.....


I was at the Cliffs of Moher a few weeks back and as I'm walking past the visitors center I saw a lad (30's) walk out with a sambo and drink and give the mask he was wearing to his mate so he could go in.

With that level of stupidity, I don't think a cliff walk is the best idea.

RoYoBo

Irish Aris wrote: »

I can confirm that the bold part works perfectly.
I use primarily disposable masks and always make sure to buy ones with an adjustable nose bridge.

You can buy stick-on metal nose strips on Amazon for next to nothing. I've used them to upgrade some bought masks and/or they can be used for homemade masks, either sewn in or stuck on. Sticking them on probably won't work through the wash, but it's very easy to create a channel, even a hand sewn one.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

Just the flu bro? Go back to February 2020 when that was a position worthy of any serious consideration.
Your nonsense about panic hidden race will be ignored as a rant.

It’s not a rant bro ...

It’s reality. People have lost the plot over this virus.
The over the top reaction has come from the top down.
History will show that the reaction was excessive and completely over the top.

biko

VG31 wrote: »

Are staff in hotels and restaurants required to wear masks?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/face_coverings_during_covid19.html

On 10 August 2020, new public health laws (pdf) made face coverings mandatory for customers in shops

It will also be mandatory for retail staff to wear a face covering unless there is a partition or they take all reasonable steps to keep a 2-metre distance from others.
These laws will be in place until at least 5 October 2020.

I haven't found strict guides about restaurants or hotels but everywhere I've been all have had masks on.

Pitch n Putt

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Absolute nonsense argument ,

How many people died of the Flu in Ireland in 2019 ….less than 30
Over a thousand have died of Covid in 6 months ,

Don't forget there have been extreme measure in place for them 6 months to try and stop the spread if they where not there the number would be hugely higher,

Comparing it to the Flu shows a serve lack of intelligence

Never compared it to the flu.
Said that the flu spreads every year and nobody reacted with the panic and fear that’s currently being instilled in people by NPHET etc

Also over a thousand people have not died from covid 19.
Unfortunately most died with covid 19 and even more tragically a lot of these poor people who lost their lives were caused by the panic to empty our hospitals resulting in a catastrophic disaster of infecting many nursing homes.

Graham

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

over a thousand people have not died from covid 19

1,781 coronavirus related deaths so far.

Tired332

is_that_so wrote: »

There are vaccines for flu' which mitigate the number of deaths. This is completely new and nobody knew how they were going to react to it. Our views of it have changed in the 7 months since it arrived.

If this really was a deadly pandemic we wouldn't need to be rushing to test everybody to prove it exists. People would actually be sick . Hospitals would be full. People you actually know would be dead. None of that exists in reality, but instead only on your television , and newspapers. Healthy people locked up suppressing their immunity for the past 7months and now we are coming into winter( ?flu season) .Every other year the flu killed people where was the big pandemic then.

Edit: yes I wear a mask , but I do not think it makes a difference as it harbour more germs.

Pitch n Putt

Graham wrote: »

1,781 coronavirus related deaths so far.

Pick out the bit that suits

Unfortunately 1781 related deaths not all FROM Covid 19 directly.

Graham

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Unfortunately 1781 related deaths not all FROM Covid 19 directly.

That's like claiming someone shot in the head may have died of a brain haemorrhage rather than gunshot.

Keep trying..

3xh

biko wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/face_coverings_during_covid19.html

I haven't found strict guides about restaurants or hotels but everywhere I've been all have had masks on.

S.I. 296 of 2020 would refer to this(It’s only a few pages and worth a search/read) and by the looks of the wording, hotel and restaurant staff are not required (by law) to wear a mask.

That’s just the legal angle to it. Relevant employers may try to force a worker to wear one, however. And as staff in hotels and restaurants are generally minimum wage, zero-hour, foreign, they’d probably comply with such direction.

Pitch n Putt

Graham wrote: »

That's like claiming someone shot in the head may have died of a brain haemorrhage rather than gunshot.

Keep trying..

Look up the number of cases with underlying conditions.

Covid deaths are over stated in this country and across Europe.

biko

Sure, masks are inconvenient but if it keeps the old folks safe I am happy to do it.

Graham

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Look up the number of cases with underlying conditions.

Covid deaths are over stated in this country and across Europe.

Tosh.

Premature death caused by Covid, is still death caused by Covid however much you pretend otherwise.

Pitch n Putt

Graham wrote: »

Tosh.

Premature death caused by Covid, is still death caused by Covid however much you pretend otherwise.

Look up the difference between By and With

Good man