AliExpress and Irish Tax

10000maniacs

A weird thing happened to me today.

I got an email from An Post stating that I owed €10.18 tax + €3.50 fees on a radio I bought on AliExpress.

But since July the 1st 2021, AliExpress have been gathering the tax on behalf of the Irish customs, so I already paid tax on the radio.

What gives here? Do I have to pay double tax on everything I order that is not in the EU?

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685016#Comment_117685016

Irish customs call it VAT or value added tax.

AliExpress call it tax.

Either way, it seems to be the same €10.18 they are both charging me.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685232#Comment_117685232

They are both collecting the same tax due.

From the AliExpress website:

Information on additional charges

For items delivered from outside the European Union, you may be subject to additional charges for VAT and, when applicable, customs duties in your country. If AliExpress is obliged by law to collect VAT, you will see the VAT inclusive price at checkout. For more information about these costs, please contact the tax and customs authorities in your country.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685023#Comment_117685023

This is a bit odd because AliExpress actually correctly call it VAT (as opposed to tax) and their receipts specifically shows VAT (again as opposed to tax).

https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

con747

It's most likely just a glitch in the system somewhere so get in touch and show the vat has been paid and it should be ok.

rm212

Likely a case of the seller not attaching the AliExpress invoices/shipping documents correctly.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686532#Comment_117686532

So which website do I go to so as to make my case that I have already paid my VAT on the item?

con747

Try An Post customer service as they collect the vat.

make sure to report this to Aliexpress also

obviously something is not working in the process somewhere

surely the idea is that VAT is prepaid at point of sale at Aliexpress so the An Post "checking" fee (and subsequent double VAT payment) is to be avoided

rm212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686539#Comment_117686539

Send An Post the invoice as proof of VAT paid.

and ask an post how come the system is not linked up with aliexpress when VAT is paid there at point of purchase?

phester28

good luck with that. I emailed them at the ecommchargequery@anpost.ie They released the package but I never heard back why it was stopped or what was not correct on it.

I checked at work at the post room and I could find some packages that use a similar label system that Aliexpress use. But the main difference is this package showed Vat collected and showed the Irish vat number. Aliexpress labels still show the pre vat in my case in $ amount and no vat number or amount collected. So I think an post have no way to tell if Vat was collected or not

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702675#Comment_117702675

I know that a lot of the customs guys aren't exactly up there in the logic department but deducing what is the correct thing to do is easy here.

1: Parcel is from AliExpress

2: Parcel shipped after July 1st

3: AliExpress kindly collects Irish VAT on all items shipped from China to Ireland after July 1st and gives it to Irish Revenue.

4 So therefore let the parcel through. AliExpress have done the job already. Nothing else to squeeze out of anybody here.

Peregrinus

I think aliexpress needs not only to collect and account for VAT, but to label their packages in a way that reflects this. Even if postal authorities know that aliexpress should collect and account for VAT, they won't - because they are rational beings - assume that it has always done so in every case, even if the paperwork aliexpress has issued for that case suggests that they haven't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694399#Comment_117694399

Assuming An Post haven't read the shipping documents incorrectly, this surely is a question you should be asking Aliexpress.

OP, Share the Aliexpress details with them, and let us know how you get on, whether the paperwork was accurate or not.

Aliexpress is only a platform for many thousands of different sellers who sell and ship the items.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702945#Comment_117702945

Yes, but aliexpress handles the payments, and so is in a position to make arrangement in relation to taxes and duties which apply to all traders using its platform.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117703011#Comment_117703011

Aliexpress do handle the payments but it seems to be that the issue is very much about that An Post can't /or are not identifying from the item documentation on the physical item coming through sent by the sellers that the VAT is paid (and therefore stopping them and putting on the inspection charge)?

bren_mc

I had a similar experience on aliexpress this week - VAT charged by seller but Irish customs looking to apply it again (same amount). I found this on the aliexpress website FAQ

Q: Will I be charged again when goods deliver to my country?

A: If you have paid for order with VAT in AliExpress, VAT should not be charged again by customs/logistics provider. In case you were charged again, please keep the invoice and submit it to customer service team to get refund of it. Please note administration fee pay to logistics provider cannot be refunded in this case.

Anyone got any idea how to contact customer service team.?

phester28

you should not pay it again, and in the first instance you should not look for redress from Aliexpress.

You should email the details of the charge from an post (for example) and and also a copy of the invoice to ecommchargequery@anpost.ie (in this case) they then should release the package. Until an post clarify why they stop packages that have vat paid so that we as customers can feed back to Alixpress then this will continue.

10000maniacs

If somebody has paid twice It should be Irish customs coughing up the payment including fees.

Does the law of deduction not work anymore for these guys in customs? Or did it ever?

Package from AliExpress China to Republic of Ireland.

Shipped after July 1st 2021.

AliExpress collect VAT on ALL Irish deliveries on behalf of Irish customs since July 1st 2021.

Therefore by the laws of deduction, they have already got their VAT or worst case it is on its way from AliExpress into the revenue coffers, so let the parcel through already.

These customs guys annoy me greatly.

jimmycrackcorm

AFAIR from my Aliexpress deliveries, it is the seller who attaches the customs labels which they have always done. However, I suspect they don't denote that Irish VAT is incorporated into the platform.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708709#Comment_117708709

who? Aliexpress - it's available on the website in the "my orders" section

should get the "Ask Me" pop up and go from there and select the order in question

you will need proof of payment / invoice from An Post

they won't refund the €3.50 "inspection fee" though

can anyone post a pic of the front of label (not your address) for something that came through successfully from Aliexpress ordered since July 1 with duty paid to see if VAT Paid is indicated on it?

phester28

See attached, They dont indicate vat paid or a vat number. This kind of label appears common across the ali platform. Yet ali claim vat. So the buck IMO stops with ali poor labelling

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711250#Comment_117711250

Is your phone number visible on that? If so delete it.

davetherave

Crossposting what I said in the other thread. You might be buying aliexpress.com but you are dealing with a seller, much the same as you buy something on ebay. It is just a marketplace for tens of thousands of stores/sellers.

It could be that Ali Express are collecting it, but the individual sellers themselves aren't including the IOSS number in the customs declaration so Revenue/An Post have no evidence that the package has come from a retailer/company that is registered for VAT and it has been collected at the point of sale.

https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

For all goods shipped from outside of EU and VAT-collected by AliExpress, our sellers and their logistics operators will need to include the Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) number of AliExpress in their import declaration into EU, this is to ensure that the goods can then be released for free circulation and delivered to you without being charged with VAT or any additional handling fees at the customs.

@phester28 just tagging you so hopefully you get a ping to this message, your landline is visible in that photo.

Esel

"Hello, Mr Phester28. I am calling from AliExpress in connection with your Irish VAT problem. If you give me your IBAN, I will arrange a full refund for you, plus you will receive a €20 coupon to use against your next purchase as a gesture of goodwill."

phester28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711381#Comment_117711381

No that is a Chinese number

phester28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711685#Comment_117711685

There is no need. Irish customs released it. I find it amusing that you have a private profile. I can not verify who you claim to be. Not that I will be giving out my IBAN. Now if aliexpress would just clarify why labelling is missing the IOSS and why vat is not displayed on the labels when collected you would help the many rather than the few.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117712109#Comment_117712109

Mega-whoosh there. 😊 Did you not see the quotation marks around my post?

phester28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117712203#Comment_117712203

Ups, The days of correct punctuation are leaving me :)

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711402#Comment_117711402

It does not matter which AliExpress seller it is, the payment goes through the AliExpress payment system and VAT is deducted at source in all cases when the destination is the Republic of Ireland.

So by the laws of deduction, Irish customs should allow through AliExpress packages regardless of what's on the package.

They have got their money. Nothing else to see here.

Kat1170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117715061#Comment_117715061

Criminal gangs furiously printing out AliExpress labels just in case you ever get a job in customs.

Even Amazon packages are randomly checked. You can't just let everything through, just because.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711250#Comment_117711250

Sometimes i get parcels i ordered on aliexpress and all the text is worn out from it that you can hardly even read the address much less anything else on it.

I just stopped ordering from them as I dont have the time to be dealing with an post.

10000maniacs

Here's the correspondence I had with AliExpress today.

AliExpress: May I know if you provide the invoice to the post office to prevent additional fees for the parcel ?

Me: Do you need the receipt of payment to Irish customs?

AliExpress: May I know if you already paid to them ?

Me: Yes, They just said if you don't pay, you wont get the item. It was an email and you couldn't reply to the email.

AliExpress: In that case, please provide to them the invoice of the order so they will not be charging you in the parcel since it was already paid in the order.

Me: The only option in the email was to pay by credit card or PayPal. There was nowhere to make a case for not paying.

AliExpress: I understand.

Me: I already paid the Irish customs fees because at the time I wasn't aware that I paid VAT already on the AliExpress site.

AliExpress: I understand. In case you were charged again, please keep the invoice and submit it here to get refund of it.Please note administration fee pay to logistics provider cannot be refunded in this case.

Me: With Irish customs once they make a decision, there is no way of trying to convince them that the extra payment is not required.

AliExpress: I understand. May I have the official receipt so I can help you submit it to the team to get refund for the fee

Me: Will I send a picture of the PayPal invoice?

AliExpress: Sure please

Me: Ok give me a second to take a screenshot.

AliExpress: Thank you.

Me: Is that all I need to do for now for this to be processed?

AliExpress: May I ask for your contact email, please?

Me: ********@yahoo.co.uk

AliExpress: Thank you. To help you in this case, I will escalate your case for further checking and will update you status through email within 2 working days' For this case please do kindly wait and monitor your account page for you to have case resolution update. :)

Me: Thank you very much for your help AliExpress

AliExpress: You're most welcome. :) I know how much you value your hard-earned money and we are both on the same page that we wanted to get your money back. Nothing to worry about, we will keep our eyes and we will take care of this case for you here. We will make sure that this case will be properly handled for you.♥ Aside from this, is there anything else I can assist you with today? I just want to make sure you are satisfied and fulfilled with the service I have given to you today.

Me: One quick question. Is this going to be the case with all items I order from AliExpress in the future? I will be charged twice for VAT and will have to resolve it every time?

AliExpress: In the case that you already paid the VAT fee in the order in AliExpress, you will just need to download invoice of the order to provide it to customs to prevent from being charge for the parcel

Me: But here is the reply I got from Irish Post today.

Irish Post: Good afternoon, Custom Charges were applied by Irish Revenue based on the electronic data submitted by the sender.  You will need to contact the sender/sending retailer directly regarding any queries concerning VAT paid at source/point of purchase. 

AliExpress:  In that case, seller must provide the IOSS number once you are being requested to contact the seller to confirm the order. This is to ensure that the goods can then be released for free circulation and delivered to you without being charged with VAT or any additional handling fees at the customs.

Me: Very complicated way of buying stuff from AliExpress all of a sudden.

AliExpress: I understand and I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. We are still working for more EU New Vat policy in the platform. Please do not worry system enhancement will bring better service.

Me: Ill wait in anticipation for the outcome of this particular case. Thanks.

CollyFlower

Is it the case that AnPost will still charge a handling fee of 3.50 when they sort out the VAT issues with Aliexpress?

head82

Having a similar issue as OP regards An Post withholding package until VAT is paid. I've already forwarded them the invoice stating VAT was paid at point of purchase. Received email this morning from An Post: "Good Morning, this item is awaiting a customs payment. A notification was sent to you on the 5 August".

Not even an acknowledgement of having received copy of invoice. The overall value of package is only around €3.50 so seems hardly worth paying An Post their €3.50 handling fee plus 60c VAT (which I've already pre-paid).

Probably best to let them return it to seller and I can claim a refund for non-receipt of goods. Not in Aliexpress's best interest if this becomes commonplace and something that could easily be rectified by proper display of VAT paid on packaging label.

I'll pursue the case with An Post but I don't hold out much hope.

enricoh

Looks like a lot more hassle than I have the patience for! My postman will be happy with these new rules!

whiterebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117715061#Comment_117715061

The seller has to put the IOSS number on it to show that VAT has paid. That’s all Customs are interested in. If the seller isn’t doing that, its not Custom’s or An Post’s problem.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117719941#Comment_117719941

They have already got their money by default if it is AliExpress.

whiterebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721201#Comment_117721201

They have to prove that with the IOSS number, otherwise anyone fakes an AliExpress label and sends it in.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721201#Comment_117721201

That's doesn't matter a toss if they have not been advised and the item is not properly labelled. AliExpress sellers are messing up, plain and simple.

phester28

Still trying to find out if the IOSS is provided by aliexpress as they are collecting the vat. Or is each merchant supposed to have their own IOSS.

see below current correspondence with a seller

Buyer

do you know what is your IOSS number. Does alixpress give it to you?

Seller

Yes. Now there is IOSS. There are stickers on the package

It is unified by AliExpress. It was not available before.

And now the packaging needs to be certified by the EU responsible person C E

These are all things that need to be pasted on the packaging of the articles inside.

Buyer

This is the only label on my package. I do not see IOSS number

(pic supplied)

Seller

I haven't sent the product to iOS when I sent it to you.

Buyer

I am just trying to find out what I need to ask sellers in future. 

Buyer

So you need to put the IOSS number on the package and you did not?

Seller

You need to ask the EU

IOSS has not been provided AliExpress before. Now every Merchant should have it.

Buyer

so does every merchant have a different IOSS number

Seller

right

still none the wiser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708777#Comment_117708777

Did An Post acknowledge your email with invoice and how long did it take to release the package after?

What is the email address for An Post that you used?

with tens of thousands of sellers on Aliexpress sending and labelling items this could be a mess for a very long time / forever?

although VAT collection has been going on for items going to Australia where I occasionally send gifts and never had an issue there.

hopefully it's just early day issues that will be sorted out....

phester28

Yes I got an email from an post about the package. but there is no public info on how to appeal.

Fast forward an hour on hold with an post only to be told that you have to email: ecommchargequery@anpost.ie

I believe its the seller is not or is trying to, not register goods as vat paid. (even when vat is collected) they then can pocket the money.

Otherwise why would a seller not put the IOSS number on a package, if they had it and vat was collected?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723381#Comment_117723381

the payments are collected by Aliexpress, not the seller

Aliexpress hand over the ex-vat amount to the seller after an escrow period.

As said Aliexpress have been running the pre-paid VAT collection system like this with Australia (and possibly other countries) for a good while (2 years+) so I doubt they would still be doing it with them if Aliexpress was keeping the VAT money

I haven't seen any IOSS number yet on anyone's package (please post if the case) so it could be a number of factors - e.g. communication to the sellers about the system etc who knows.

autumnalcore

Just got caught with first VAT paid aliexpress package, annoyingly another 7 on the way all VAT paid, VAT invoiced.

An Posts fairlt unhelpful response

"Custom Charges were applied by Irish Revenue based on the electronic data submitted by the sender. 

You will need to contact the sender/sending retailer directly regarding any queries concerning VAT paid at source/point of purchase."

Sender gave me an IOSS number that appears to be a generic Aliexpress one.

Anyone made any headway with one of these disputes?

head82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733089#Comment_117733089

I received the exact same email from An Post this morning regarding my own little ongoing dispute with them. I haven't requested an IOSS number from the seller as I've more or less resigned myself to not getting anywhere with An Post. Although phester28 managed to get his package released by merely submitting the invoice.

If submitting your IOSS number does result in getting your package released, let us know.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733422#Comment_117733422

I think this is Joe Duffy territory.

The guys at An Post won't give an inch as they don't regard their clients as customers.

It does not matter one iota that the tax has already been paid.

Irish customs are already reaping in more VAT from parcels since July 1st than they ever could have dreamed of.

davetherave

What do you reckon Joe Duffy is going to resolve?

An Post are telling you that Customs Charges are based on the electronic information supplied by the seller when the package is being posted. AliExpress are telling that their sellers will need to include the Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) number of AliExpress in their import declaration into EU.

Ebay say the same thing on the sellers page. "Sellers should include eBay's IOSS as part of the export pre-notification documentation provided to carriers. If eBay's IOSS is not provided correctly, then buyers may be asked to pay VAT a second time".

It all comes back to the seller not doing their job.