Registering a UK car that ha been stored in Ireland for 15 years

bluesteely

Hi all,

I’m in the middle of purchasing a 1974 MG B Roadster but I was hoping for some advice. The car is on UK plates (from England not NI), and has been in Ireland for about 15 years. It was a restoration project that only got as far as stripping it before unforeseen circumstances meant it ended up being left in a shed for years. The car is pretty much in boxes now, but it has all its relevant documents, so I was just wondering how difficult would it be to register the car here now?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Isambard

they wont VRT it until it's a complete car. Quite probably they'll be looking for a lot of back tax .

Your best option may be to export it back to the UK when complete , get an MoT and a fresh V5C and then re-import it. Fraught with diffculties.

CalamariFritti

Isn't a car that old (74) not on some sort of classic vrt? Like a really low flat rate?

Edit: Here we go: https://www.vrt.ie/faq/vrt-rate-vintage-car/

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687211#Comment_117687211

Yes it is (€200) but its not that simple anymore. You now have duty and VAT to consider and you can only VRT a running car. There could be fines involved because the car wasn't declared when it entered the state. Bit of a minefield

CalamariFritti

Duty and VAT only applies when buying/importing. OP says the car is in the country for 15 years already and I would assume he has documentation with regards to the sale. It might get a little complicated I guess but how bad can it be?

Esel

If they impose a penalty for being 15 years late that would be massive. However, the fact that the car was not driveable when originally brought in might be a way to avoid this aspect.

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717651#Comment_117717651

Correct. Duty and VAT applies when importing which is what the OP is doing. If the VRT hasn't been paid then it isn't imported yet.

hi5

You have to pay the VAT and Duty before the VRT.

I'd make sure to have an invoice for the car dated before 1/1/21 as this should mean no VAT and Duty applies when the time comes to register.

Of course this will expose the fact the car has been in the country for a while so I would take some photographs now before it is restored to show it was not possible to VRT due to it being unroadworthy. Also keep any invoices for parts/ labour etc.

Tiger72

Why can he not say he brought it down from the North last week and he bought it off Joe Bloggs . Joe Bloggs had it for the last fifteen years and here's the V5 , he imported it from the UK and never registered it in the North . If the V5 has the last registered owner in 2006 then whats the problem ?If you at the moment bought a car from a guy in the UK that had it for the last 15 years and he taxed it and insured it then whats the difference to buying it from a fella who stored it for 15 years and didn't tax it or insure it ? Nothing to me - i don't see what business it is of Revenue what history the car had or where it was , if it has a valid V5 and it not flagged as stolen or finance owing i don't see a problem - its

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117735503#Comment_117735503

Well if he bought it of a chap in the UK 15 years ago and didnt register it in the North then hes liable for VAT and duty! From your post it seems as though you dont understand the system!

Isambard

the position is if you import a car you must VRT it within 30 days or else penalties apply. Notwithstanding you cannot VRT a non running car, there is no mid-point here. There is no provision or allowance made for a non-running car. VRT within 30 days or penalties. It's a can of worms.

I wouldn't be so sure that VAT and Customs Duty wouldn't be applied either.

Tiger72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117740116#Comment_117740116

Its simple enough to me ....you bring the car from the North - take it up over the Border if you like and bring it down and declare it to Customs on the way down , so a few receipts for petrol bought up there if you have to . Show a receipt for buying the car for - what ??? €1000 , €2000 , (Who are they to say a hand written receipt from a private seller is valid or not ) pay your VAT on that if you have to . There is no record of that car coming into the country so the Customs cannot say anything because they have no proof that it came into the Country fifteen years ago - as i said from once the V5 is valid that's all that should concern them . Looking for to see if its taxed or insured in another country is none of their business

Isambard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745371#Comment_117745371

the world has changed, you need all sorts of documentation nowadays. Customs declaration for one.

Looking to see the motor tax position in the UK is exactly one thing they do.

How can you know they don't have a database of cars coming off the ferry?

Esel

^ Probably came in on the back of a truck?

Isambard

quite probably but you start making up stories about I just bought it in the North etc and there's a chance you could get called on it.

Probably best to lay your cards on the table when the time comes and see what they make of it.

Allinall

Anyone who says “You can just say …”

in relation to customs or revenue hasn’t a clue.

They’ve heard every story in the book and are wide to all the evasion schemes.

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745971#Comment_117745971

Customs do have a database of cars coming off a ferry.

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745371#Comment_117745371

So much wrong with that post!

Tiger72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759297#Comment_117759297

Explain how you know that ? And how long does the data base go back

w124man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765871#Comment_117765871

Have you ever heard of a ship's manifest?

When you disembark have you ever counted the CCTV cameras?

Have you ever bought a car in the EU or UK and driven it back without anyone knowing?

Isambard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769125#Comment_117769125

20 years ago my neighbour had visitors in a Toyota Hilux with all the bells and whistles. Within a month Customs were at the door wanting wanting to know where it was . They are watching

Sir Galahad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765871#Comment_117765871

Customs operate ANPR cameras in Port. You genuinely don’t seem to have a grip on dealing with Customs.

Isambard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770304#Comment_117770304

i think he was suggesting they wouldn't have had anpr camera 15 years ago

Tiger72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771076#Comment_117771076

Exactly ....... have they records going back 15 years ago ???? i very much doubt it . If he takes that car up the North for one day its out of this Country - i dont care what anyone says its out of this jurisdiction. If that car is registered to someone up the North and he produces evidence that he brought it down over the border what ever happened in the last fifteen years doesn't matter. The only person that knows he had that car is himself - there's ways around it. If he produces an invoice for a "nominal' amount of money then that's what he paid . Customs cant decide that he paid more for it because they don't have any evidence that he did . If he wants to be sure to be sure register it to someone in the North and work around that .Different story if the car drove off the ferry nowadays

Tiger72

I had a car last year - Jan 2020 brought in from the UK on a transporter - no plates on it , removed them - no one stopped me in Dublin . Next Covid crisis , No V5 for seven months , couldnt clear it ( A seventeen Reg car ) without V5 . Next when the NCT centres opened they had an Amnesty until 01 Aug 2020 , that you did not have to have shipping evidence . Produced the car at NCT , he asked for evidence of shipping i said it came down through the North there is none . He disappeared for about 20 mins - obviously rang his customs contact - he came back and processed the car and i paid the bill (€5,500) . Now if he did get sticky about the the shipping No.1 The Date that the V5 was issued was only in previous four weeks because i registered it to a friend in London so that i had a valid V5 to pay the duty on it - the date is on it , its a valid V5 , its black and white on the paper . And No 2 - i also had a print out from the revenue about the Amnesty . Everything fine - i wasn't dodging anything , it was just the whole Covid thing caused a huge mess for me with valid paper work .

w124man

The thing that gets me on this is people openly encouraging other people to commit fraud. Then we all get tarred with the same brush

Isambard

yes indeed. If you were to follow the suggestion and then find they do have a record of the car being in the state, then that's likely to be Fraud or Tax Evasion.

Tiger72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773721#Comment_117773721

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774534#Comment_117774534

Wheres the fraud ?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775299#Comment_117775299

You're lying to revenue about the history of the car, and evading arrears of VRT.

That's fraud.

Larbre34

If they have a record of the car, let them find it. Otherwise its just crates of spares at the moment.

If I were to purchase that now with the idea of putting it back on the road, I would feel no obligation to cover VRT arrears for some other lad with a box of bits.

When you get it put together, book a one way ferry ticket from the UK to Ireland with the car details included, that you'll never be on, then two days later turn up to Revenue and get it registered in Ireland. End of problem.

Isambard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775671#Comment_117775671

didn't someone mention earlier the ANPR cameras at the docks?

kadman

If anyone is advocating fraudulent methods to avoid paying VRT, customs or both, it will be the quickest way to get this thread closed folks.

LollipopJimmy

Unless it's an absolute bargain I'd pass it and buy another. The hassle will be unreal

cnocbui

VRT is surely only applicable on a car that is to be driven on Irish roads? If you do a Clarkson and buy an Alpha C8 to mount on your wall as a work of art, I can't see any reason why it would need a registration number and be registered to be driven on the roads, or for VRT to be paid; assuming this was prior to Brexit when it wouldn't count as an import in terms of VAT - in the case of it being intended as art.

Isambard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795174#Comment_117795174

well according to the strict rules, you would need to register and VRT any vehicle coming into the state. If you don't do so, nothing will happen unless you subsequently decide to put it on the road, and then you find the VRT clock has been ticking since the date of import and all the paperwork that brings will be needed.

Redriddick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795834#Comment_117795834

So if I bought a car but only wanted it for parts, it will never be on the road here, I could bring it in without having to vrt it?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795834#Comment_117795834

Would you have a link for that strict rule? I had a quick look and all I found was this:

"The requirement to register

It is an offence to drive an unregistered vehicle in the State. If you do not register your vehicle, Revenue or the Gardaí can detain it. It could also be seized by Revenue and may be released on the payment of a penalty."

So no drive, no penalty. For instance, I doubt that a motor museum that imported a vintage car on a trailer for display, that was never and would never be driven on irish roads, would need to pay VRT and have it registered to drive on the road.

Registration is intrisically and solely concerned with vehicles that are to be driven on the road.

From the RSA:

"The vehicle registration figures issued by the Vehicle Registration Unit of the Department of Transport for 2005 show that thereare 66,669 agricultural tractors registered in Ireland. This suggests that the majority of tractors are not registered as they donot travel on public roads."

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Std%20Leg/Consultations/Agri%20Report.pdf

In other words, they aren't registered because they don't have to be if not driven on roads.

Esel

Afaik, a car or motorbike that will never be used in a public place (e.g. race track or display only) does not have to be registered. Therefore no VRT.