Last port of call for the desperate troll. “Everyone who disagrees with my baseless ranting is a shill”
In answer to the OP, yes I would be more than happy to vaccinate my kids.
Wouldn't even think twice about it. I gave them every vaccination they were due. No brainer.
To whom? Were all going to be vaccinated and children will be immune from exposure.
However, allow me to put it in very blunt terms. I will not subject my children to an unknown vaccination when they are of zero risk from the disease. I doubt many parents will. I got vaccinated as I am at risk and we need herd immunity within those at risk.
My kids are my number one priority, way way way ahead of you or indeed, anyone else
Tried and tested vaccines designed to fight illnesses and diseases that pose a risk to your child. We have absolutely no idea what the long tern effects could be. Probable none but the possibility exists
As and when the EMA eventually recommends COVID vaccines for kids (assuming it does), which will win out, do you think:
Fear of risks from the vaccine - "probably no long term side effects but the possibility exists, we have absolutely no idea" but none known of to-date except a risk of blood clots that's smaller than the risk of blood clots arising from pregnancy or smoking?
Or fear of the risks from COVID - already known to include a spectrum ranging from short-term mild flu-like symptoms; to long-COVID symptoms including lack of energy, brain fog, permanent loss of taste and smell, and breathing difficulties; long term organ damage; and death?
Right, well first off:
I don't allow my kids to smoke and they cant physically get pregnant so an absolutely pointless comparison. Secondly, I already stated MY CHILDREN ALREADY HAD IT with zero effect. So your second possibility is again, irrelevant.
Your A and B has no bearing on my children, neither apply to them. The comparison that does apply is this:
Give them a vaccine against an illness they already had with zero effect that's probable safe, probable but we don't know the long term effects yet
Leave them to obtain natural immunity from a disease that has already shown to have zero effect on them.
I am curious how you can state that any effect from Covid19 is long term when the disease is not even 3 years old but feel absolutely confident to state that vaccines less than 1 year old carry little long term effects.
@Niner leprauchan wrote
There is a risk of oversimplification here.
SARS-Cov-2 is known to trigger MIS-C in some cases. It is not known whether immunity from previous infection protects against this, or whether a child who recovers from an infection without developing MIS-C will definitely not have it triggered by a subsequent infection. Some cases of MIS-C appear to be persistent, i.e long term. The risk is concentrated in lower ages.
The mRNA vaccines are known to cause myocarditis or pericarditis in some cases. Both the onset and duration are generally short term, but there isn't much data since kids have only relatively recently started to be vaccinated so the cases of inflammation are relatively new. The risk is concentrated in upper ages. Similar inflammation can also be triggered by by the viral infection.
So we are balancing risks based on autoimmune triggers that tend to affect different age groups differentially, and where the triggered conditions vary in probable duration and severity, and where the risk of MIS-C is contingent on the probability of infection which is changing all the time due to adult vaccinations and variant evolution but where the risk of heart inflammation is contingent on both the binary probability of vaccination at the individual level and the risk of infection.
Have you taken all this into account?
I've had my children vaccinated for pretty much everything that's available. Measles, mumps, rota virus, flu and even chicken pox.
But I think I might draw the line with covid.
I had covid myself two months, luckily, a mild dose. My youngest child (2) also contracted it, but never showed one symptom what so ever, in fact I was convinced it was a false positive so I had her retested a few days after her first positive, she was positive again.
I've since had a covid vaccine, so I'm by no way anti vax. But I really don't think I'd have my children vaxed yet for covid.
But each to their own.
FWIW, I'm not suggesting anyone would be forced to vaccinate their kids and there's no way the government will ever bring it in so everyone will be free to make their own choices.
However, from the medical perspective, there are three reasons why we would consider vaccinating children to protect others;
1) There are always a small number of people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons. These are also usually the most vulnerable in terms of getting sick. Reducing the overall numbers of infection protects these people. That is what herd immunity is - you cannot just have herd immunity among the at-risk population. In addition, there will be a much larger number of adults who decline the vaccine for their own reasons. Now, you can say that this is their problem, but when they get Covid, are clogging up hospital beds and we can't get basic medical procedures done, it becomes everyone's problem.
2) There will always be a small percentage of vaccinated people who get infected anyway. Again, the people at mosk risk of this are the people most at risk of serious illness from Covid, i.e. old and immunocompromised people. I wouldn't expect you to worry about protecting me - but if your kids have grandparents that they see regularly, maybe they matter more to you? Now, the odds on this are pretty low, and the odds of someone getting seriously ill are lower again, but if you have enough cases floating around in unvaccinated people, eventually you get issues in the vaccinated population. A small percentage of a very large number is still a pretty large number, as the UK are about to find out.
3) We have a million children in Ireland. Globally, it's about a quarter of the population. That's a huge population for Covid to continue swirling around in, always increasing the probability of new variants emerging. And again, even if the risk of a child getting ill from Covid is very low, if enough kids get it then eventually you will see deaths.
So they're the reasons why vaccinating children might be a good idea even if the child himself is not particularly at risk.
I understand the reluctance, especially when we don't yet have the data on kids under 12. However, there will be a trade-off in terms of prolonging the return to "normality".
Personally, I'll wait to see what the clinical trials say and take it from there.
"Natural Immunity" is a funny one. Immunity gained from a vaccine is just as "natural" as that gained from infection. The immune system see the virus / spike protein , and its "natural" response is to generate the required antibodies. And in fact there is strong evidence that the response gained to vaccines is stronger as its more specific
Except the Covid vaccines don’t present the spike protein, they teach your cells to produce it. For someone who speaks so confidently about the subject, you seem to be pretty uninformed.
You may read that I stated the immune system "sees" the spike protein
How do you know it has had zero effect?
People are saying they are not going to take the vaccine because they want to see the long-term effects, but then describe Covid as a minor cold. Who knows what damage a "mild" case of Covid is doing to unvaccinated people.
Well there's certainly evidence that we can eradicate it. It's close to being eradicated through vaccination in Israel for example and would be completely gone were it not for anti vaxxers there.
"just another winter virus". There have been massive developments in the past 2 years on this, cold and flu probably will be eradicated in the near future. New vaccines that are effective against all strains are being trialed.
it's quite true that the days of life left to an 85+ yr old are limited, all the more reason to try to ensure that those days aren't spent on Oxygen or scared to death of the virus.
Children? well mine have been vaccinated.
Not sure about that, from hiqa/hse review of international studies.
Select quotes below with link to review
The numbers of cases reported to be caused by pre-symptomatic transmission per case was between one and six, most (nine out of eleven studies) reported between one and three cases (infectees) per index case (infector)
All five studies reporting on asymptomatic transmission (i.e.patient remained asymptomatic throughout the course of the disease or the length of the study), were based in China(1, 4, 5, 7, 9) and involved transmission of COVID-19 between family members. The numbers of cases reported to be caused by asymptomatic transmission per case was between one(5, 7) and up to five (it was unclear in one particular study how many transmissions had been caused).(4) Most commonly, in these five studies, each asymptomatic case caused three further cases. (1, 7, 9)
0.003% you are off by a factor of 1000
The simplest and easiest option is control, not eradication. I'd rather the mRNA focus was on things that we do need to cure, like cancer, which affects far more than COVID ever will.
Ah now, remember Grofus is the only user on boards who isn't able to post links or attachments, so it's unfair to link to actual logical, medical and scientific articles when all they can do in response is spout figures and say "They're real, but I can't give you a reference or link to them. But I read them, they're real, you'll just have to trust me!!!"
FYI on the 12-15 age group. It is a small cohort, of about 269,000 people so MVCs could lash through them, assuming that approval is given.
“HSE Chief Clinical Officer Dr Colm Henry said in order to reach herd immunity in Ireland, vaccination would have to be expanded to younger age groups.
He said the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC) has to consider the relative risks and benefits for children as Covid-19 presents a very low risk for children in terms of serious illness and hospitalisation.
Dr Henry said there is “disagreement internationally” on the issue and he does not expect NIAC to “emphatically recommend” vaccinating children at this stage.
“Certainly they’re looking at teenagers, aged 12-16, but with younger age groups I expect it’s going to be more complicated,” he said.”
Likewise you do not speak for all parents.
You are happy to give it to your children. Others are not.
This does not make them bad or evil or even stupid.
This coercion is becoming all encompassing at the moment and it is going to generate massive division.
That's kind of sad in way 70 deaths between 13th May and 13 July. 58 not vaccinated, 12 vaccinated, two fully vaccinated more than 2 week. All 12 had underlaying conditions so if we had gotten to the people with underlying conditions 10 might not have died, I wonder how many of the 58 had underlying conditions and could have been vaccinated sooner. I wonder how many declined the vaccine.
I will wait for more data.
My son contracted Covid in college last year, so I would say yes, let them have it.
He is going for his first jab on Saturday.
Judging by Colm Henry's comments 12-15 is a maybe but probably not the younger group.
Why!!! He's already got immunity. Just do an antibody test
Under 12s hasn't been approved anywhere yet. US only expecting approval for that age group in mid-Winter.
EMA approved Pfizer for Ages 12-15 in May.
A vaccine wont be approved for an age group without data
I think there seems to be a feeling here that people are advocating giving unapproved vaccines to children?