Car claim question after accident

yamaha4life

hi all,

i had the misfortune of being involved in an RTA with another vehicle.

ive never had an accident in 10+ years so i have no idea of the process .

without going into too much detail but for context,

basically i was travelling on an N road at night time so was dark, traffic was very light and no adverse weather conditions, while on N road the other vehicle involved came out from a private entrance type road / boreen. that vehicle was turning to go in the same direction as i was travelling to do so had to cross one lane and into mine.

while doing so the other vehicle's driver either misjudged the distance i was from them when the attempted to cross and join my lane or just didnt look? hit accelerator instead of braking? i can only speculate.

anyway the other vehicle hit my vehicle on the drivers door first but rear door and quater also damaged. its a nice bit of damage as i was travelling 100kph at the time. still waiting for an estimate.

other driver wasnt impressed i wanted to call the gardai (i did though) gave statements etc also no witnesses or dash cam sadly at the time. i reported to my insurance and got a claim started as you do.

heres where the questions arise for me, after contacting insurance etc, that evening they contacted me with an "update" they called it. the other party is claiming a completly different scenario took place and that i am too blame.

in this scenario they were already on the N road and i attempted an illegal manoeuvre that cause the collision and i was at fault.

now i know thats not true its completely fabricated and im fairly sure the statement made by the other party to the gardai will reflect this but the gardai at the scene were reluctant to point a finger at ether of us.

is this normal? like for the other party to do that. after that call from the insurance i contacted a solicitor and gave all the information to them they have assured me the other party is going to get nowhere with that story and was very reassuring and confident that this will be wrapped up quickly. that said the insurance company hasnt responded to my solicitor yet.

im just curious could this get very drawn out?

thanks

coylemj

The fact that he probably lives down that boreen is in your favour, he must have been driving out from a minor road onto the main road so the circumstances of the incident are in your favour. I suspect that is why your solicitor is confident that the other guy will get nowhere with his version of the event.

I can't see any way to selectively quote your post (I only wanted to quote the last paragraph) so let me give you a couple of pieces of information which are general to traffic accidents and insurance claims ....

1. Is it typical for one party to change his story after the event? It happens all the time. In the absence of dashcam or a genuinely independent witness, it's your word against his and he has nothing to lose by spinning a false story to his insurance.
2. Your insurance company can settle with the other guy (i.e. pay him off) and if they do, there is nothing you or any solicitor can do about it. This is clearly stated in every insurance policy document. So your solicitor really has no business talking to them for the moment. You will only need the involvement of a solicitor if the Garda issues a summons against you for dangerous or careless driving.

jimmycrackcorm

I'd love to hear what the other driver's version is. If the damage to your car is your driver's door, rear door and quarter panel, then what possible action could you have taken to cause this damage? It's very clear that it was your car being hit and not you somehow sliding sideways into his.

I presume that the damage to his car is primarily the passenger wing which indicates what hit what. You haven't mentioned it, but surely you must have taken photos and/or video on your phone at the scene? That would show the damage for both but also the location with the minor road.

yamaha4life

thanks for the reply.

i understand what you are saying and i have to say the other party is really spinning in this instance, i cant see how the insurance could find in there favor but that said i am nervous as you said no dash camera and no witness. only one persons word v the other 😕

i believe the other partys vehicle has been repaired already but im not 100% on this. no idea if it was insurance or not that paid. i am still awaiting an estimate for mine as my panel beater is fairly busy at the moment.

if for some reason the fabricated story is belived, i would get a hefty fine and points if not worse which would be absolutly ludacris considering i am the one who contacted gardai at the scene the other party didnt want them.

im finding this very stressful. i am buying front and rear dash camera for when i get my car back im never going through this again.

yamaha4life

jimmycrackcorm

the other partys vehicle is damaged on the front Passenger side bumper and wing is pushed back pinching the door is what i was told i only caught a glimpse of it.

the other party version of events was they where already travelling on the N road and i attempted to undertake them and caused the accident.

my mobile phone was in the door pocket and after the impact neither the front or rear camera would work until i rebooted my phone.

when i got it going even with the flash the photos where terrible, you wouldnt make anything out from them and when i went to see the damage the garda told me i couldnt as the other party was giving a statement.

while i was giving my statement the other party was allowed taking photos of my vehicle! so the other party has photos of both vehicles also was allowed leave before i could look at their vehicle and i informed my solicitor of this.

the gardai involved i hate to say it didnt manage the scene very well.

Flinty997

Its not impossible that the Garda knows the other party.

I've been in a not dissimilar situation (T-Boned when stationary) and there was defiantly something off about how everything was done. Back then, it was the accessors call on blame regards of all the people and "officials" trying to get the claim against me. In the end it went 50:50 though cost more than the repair because the other party kept the claim open thus my premium was sky high for a couple of years. I just had to keep ringing the insurance and make sure they followed their own procedures.

jimmycrackcorm

As I said, it would be literally impossible for the damage to both cars to be caused by you undertaking. That's some Fast N Furious dangerous driving. You should have insisted on taking photos of the other cars, but in dispute, I'd go to the garda station and ask the attending Garda if they recorded details of the damage for both.

It doesn't make sense for the other party to try to claim against you. At the very optimistic it is 50/50, there's no way you can be held at fault. But 50/50 is still the same result for the other driver as a full fault, their insurance still pays out and their renewals are affected just the same. They won't gain anything.

In your shoes, I'd take the bull by the horns and engage a solicitor to write to them to say that if they insist on attempting to put the blame on you then you will be pursuing separate civil legal action for any losses you might incur and you will be engaging in court an accident expert witness to demonstrate that it is impossible for their claim that you were undertaking to have caused it, and that any attempt to blame you will be held up in court as a fraudulent attempt against your insurance and your potential future losses.

As Coylemj mentioned, it's very possible that the insurance company will simply opt to settle, and you give power to them to settle as part of the process. But if your insurance does and you are going to lose your NCB and have to pay increased renewal premiums, then that's what you should target, not the actual accident claim itself. Your solicitor has already indicated that it's a likely non-runner for them, but I'd just pile on the pressure.

It's no wonder people add on whiplash and other injuries to claims as that is the kind of thing that doesn't let the insurance cartel get away with settling 50/50. Once personal injuries are involved, then they have to pay attention to who is at fault rather than scratching each other's back by settling.

jimmycrackcorm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620720#Comment_117620720

This is no criticism of you, I'm completely on your side, but your story is a litany of errors that I hope people learn from by reading.

Obviously, the number one is that there is no excuse for not having a dashcam - given they are dirt cheap. Just look up Russian accidents on youtube. Of course, you will have been in a state of shock, but it's important to be prepared for the eventual day that nearly all of us finds ourselves in an accident and to make sure you capture the information. You should have insisted with the Garda that you needed your own pictures of the damage and complained then that you were not allowed to record that even though they allowed the other party to do so when you were giving your statement.

What is very relevant, is the location. The fact that you were hit at your mid driver's side at the exact location where a vehicle exiting a minor road would cross and hit your mid-side is just too strong. So I'd get your solicitor to add that detail. The location should be in the Garda report, and I think, should actually be the key piece of evidence. A fanciful Fast n' furious undertaking sideswipe claim vs someone crossing from a minor junction conveniently placed at that location? That's Judge Judy TV quality right there...

Get your solicitor involved, because if you don't your insurance might settle and that's your premiums rocketing for the next five years vs the small cost of your solicitor sending a letter showing you aren't going to be pushed over.

Eggs For Dinner

There is no way your insurers will roll over in the circumstances you describe. They will (should) deny liability to the 3rd party.

As for your own repairs, you have 2 options. Claim for the damage under your own policy and hope there is enough evidence to allow them seek recovery from the 3rd party. Otherwise, you can seek to claim directly from the 3rd party, with the help of your solicitor.

As mentioned above, your solicitor can have no involvement in how your insurers handle the claim against you

yamaha4life

@jimmycrackcorm

i completly agree i was ill prepared for an accident :( and i will be buying dash cameras never suffering through this again.

my solicitor has sent a letter to the other partys insurance and is awaiting a reply, he also spoke to the insurance companys claim investigator. i had to give a statement to that insurance rep which afterwards they said once they have a look at the site of the incident and speak to gardai they should be able to come to a conclusion quickly.

i have sent both my solicitor and insurance photos of the road layout, where the other vehicle came out from also at interview there was a small diagram drawn from my description of incident.

i got an update from my panel beater and ill have the engineers report and estimate monday, i must send that to my insurance and solicitor. there was definetly a lot more damage done to my vehicle that the other partys.

as for "fast n furious" driving, id much rather get to my destination in one piece and keep my licence! im not one bit impressed with this allegation i doubt id have a licence / over 10 years ncb if my driving behavior was of that variety.

i guess all i can do is wait for the outcome and be better prepared in future. lot of lessons learned from this.

coylemj

OP said: (I can't selectively quote) 'I believe the other partys vehicle has been repaired already but im not 100% on this. no idea if it was insurance or not that paid.'

How long ago did this accident happen? And how do you suspect that his car has been repaired? For your insurer to pay for his repair, they would first send out an assessor and agree an estimate. If he went and got his car repaired without the nod from your insurer, he wont get a penny from them - you can't just submit a recepit and expect to be paid for damages their representative has not inspected.

yamaha4life

the accident was only a week ago and i don't have a 100% confirmation yet that its repaired only someone i know saw the vehicle on the road but sadly didnt get a good look at it. i asked them if they see the vehicle again let me know if its definetly repaired.

id imagine it would have to be repaired at a panel beaters as it only about 3 years old. i dont think they have sent anyone to look at my vehicle yet. i haven't even got a proper claim reference number.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623388#Comment_117623388

Eh, you haven't got a claim/case number yet? Seriously? Who is your ins Co? That sounds very strange if you've actually spoken to your ins company.

BTW, if you've notified your insurance company there is a case number. You can call them, but they should have communicated that to you by now, and you need to reference it during any correspondence also.

yamaha4life

i have spoken to them! they gave me a reference number but its attached to my policy. my solicitor and panel beater said why is my policy number on it as im not claiming from myself that it should be the other partys policy number. i said i didnt know its just what i got back in the email after a 30 minute call with them. maybe its the reference for the claim in general then? ive no idea

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623482#Comment_117623482

Stranger still. If you have comprehensive insurance you claim off your own insurance. It could take months/years for the other party's insurance to accept liability. Why would they pay out before that? This is basic stuff - I can't imagine a solicitor or a panel beater would not know this.

This is now fully in the bizarre/unbelievable category.

yamaha4life

i dont have fully comp never really needed it but i learnt that lesson too, my car is worth approx 12k switched from a car worth a few hundred mid policy and never gave a second thought to upgrading to fully comp 😕

im not sure what you mean? as i stated when i originally posted ive never had an accident or needed a claim so im not familiar with the process

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623535#Comment_117623535

You may not be familiar with the process, your solicitor should, but giving the solicitor the benefit of the doubt (kind of) they may have assumed you had comprehensive insurance. If you only have third party insurance then you have to pay for the fix yourself. Given what you've said above why would the other insurance company pay for your damage. Their client has told them it was your fault.

Eggs For Dinner

If you don't have comprehensive, your only course of action is to claim directly from the 3rd party. Your insurer will not do this for you. They are maintaining a file open to counter the 3rd party claiming against you

As for the 3rd party's car being fixed already, he may have claimed under his own policy. He's perfectly entitled to do this and it doesn't affect liability. His insurance company can use their assessors report when pursuing a recovery claim against you (and your policy)

From what you say, I wouldn't be too worried. The locus inspection and Garda report should support your version of events

coylemj

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623605#Comment_117623605

That is rubbish. The other guy came out of a minor road and collidied with the OP's car. The claims people in the two insurance companies should come to the conclusion that it was the other guy's fault so his insurance will pay to repair the OP's car. If you only have third party and it's the other guy's fault then you have to wait for his insurance to pay out.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, I don't see what role the OP's solicitor has in this process. He or she can't force the OP's insurance to do one thing or another. The claims people in the two insurance companies are well used to dealing with this type of situation and don't need solicitors trying to swing them in any direction.

yamaha4life

@coylemj

thanks for that, that was my understanding of it, comprehensive was for if you damage your vehicle yourself or because you caused an accident you dont have to pay for it yourself and the other person involved gets sorted aswel.

third party F/T is cover for an accident that was your fault but you dont get anything for your own property etc but if its not your fault the insurance will help you claim form the other party or fire/theft.

the only reason i contacted the solicitor was for advice and regarding the spurious claim of events that the other party is claiming. two family members also recommended seeking legal advice.

in my opinion i cant see this going any other way than mine because i was travelling on the N road and the other party came from a boreen/driveway, i explained to solicitor and investigator where my journey started and my destination, other partys reluctance to have the gardai informed. i gave a very comprehensive factual statement.

im just unfamiliar with the whole process how long it takes etc. im going to be extremely prepared in future and have dash camera etc.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624305#Comment_117624305

The absolute innocence of this post, and the OP so desperate thanks you.

Are you for real, Coylemj? This wont be a quick fix even if it goes smoothly. The other insurance company has been told by their insured the other person is at fault. The Gardai didn't let the OP take pictures of the other car, it is possible to sustains side damage and be at fault. I believe the OP, but the insurance company is going to explore the investigation fully, including the possibility of joint liability. Again, why would the other insurance company pay out now? It doesn't seem obvious to me.

OP, yes, you're understanding of comprehensive and third party is correct. But, you are incorrectly assuming the other insurance company is going to immediately take your word for it and pay out thousands of euro including the expected personal injury claim. Again, why would they?

I'd be shocked if they accepted liability based on the above and paid to have your car fixed within days if the other guy sticks to his story.

And as for not needing a solicitor - is one strictly required at this stage? No. But, from reading the above, I think getting a solicitor may the right call for you.

I DO THINK this will end in your favour, but not quickly.

Eggs For Dinner

A policyholder is entitled to make his case to their insurer and have them back his case and rightly so. However, when evidence starts to be compiled that favours the other version of events, they will make a judgement call based on their experience and settle on the best possible terms

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624913#Comment_117624913

That will happen eventually. Based on the OPs posts. When would you hazzard that will happen?

yamaha4life

@[Deleted User]

im not expecting the other partys insurance to roll over, but my lack of knowledge is why i posted, im on a steep learning curve 😢 to think i had a dash cam and it went faulty and instead of repair or replacing it i just chucked it in the bin.

i would agree there is definely instances where side damage is possible and to be at fault but the other partys vehicle in my case wont have matching damage, e.g my drivers door and side so the other partys car would have similar not just bumper/wing? maybe? im not a crash expert!

my car was hit hard enough to be pushed over sideways. i hope it doesnt take more than a month as i havent got a car now and i live rurally, should i get a hire car or buy a bangernomic to get around?

as you can imagine im a nervous passenger now.

I'd talk to the garda that took your statement and see if he is on the same page as you. He should be. Then ring the insurance co and tell them your side of the story. You need a case number off them. Tell them that the garda backs your story and see what they say. Hopefully they will come around.

To the insurance company the car repairs are not their primary concern. You might say to them you'll get it fixed at their suggested repairer if you want to get them onside. They'll be more obliging if you do that.

Good luck.

Eggs For Dinner

As an aside, the truth is what you can prove, not what actually happened.

coylemj

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625717#Comment_117625717

In this case, neither side can ‘prove’ anything. What passes for ‘truth’ will be decided by the claims people in the two insurance companies.

Isn’t that how it works - when it’s one person’s word against the other?

Meeoow

I had a similar incident years ago. I was hit, the other car tried to say it was my fault.

The main thing is, is there anyone claiming injury? If not, it shouldn't take more than a few weeks for payout. I rang the guards a few times about the accident report, they were pure ignorant. If they inspected the cars at the incident, they will give their opinion on who was at fault. Also, the insurance will inspect.

You should have gotten the other party's details, and put a claim in against their insurance. Inform your insurance of the incident and tell them you are claiming off the other party.

Be careful of engaging a solicitor, they will cost you, and I'm not sure if the other partys insurance will pay out for them too.

The J Stands for Jay

For future reference OP, fully Comp is usually worth getting. For my last renewal, it was only around €20 more than TPFT.

yamaha4life

@meeoow

i have been down to the station the garda on the scene was not the one that will be looking into the incident. i got his number and the incident number and provided this to the insurance.

i gave my insurance the other partys details / policy number? told them the other party was at fault etc. i thought thats how you make a claim.

i dont mind too much about the solicitors fee as id much rather have the advice than not in this situation.

Eggs For Dinner

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626012#Comment_117626012

It will be decided by insurers for both parties. One word against another only comes in to play when there is no evidence or witnesses. In this instance we have the road configuration, impact zones on the vehicles and (hopefully) a Garda extract

Meeoow

No. You need to contact the other party's insurance, and tell them you are claiming off them. The guards only really care if there are injuries. Are there?

Also inform your insurance, as it is a condition of your policy to do so.

Have you gotten a quote for your car yet?

yamaha4life

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117627211#Comment_117627211

i will have audatex estimate tomorrow, i never mentioned we are both insured with the same company! i rang them and reported it.

but for future reference i am to ring the other partys insurance to set up claim? not my own company? i thought my own company would have sorted out that?

Eggs For Dinner

You are obliged to report the matter to your insurer under the terms of your policy. However, if you want to make a claim against another person, you do that yourself, your insurer will not do that on your behalf

yamaha4life

oh ok well i didnt realise that, so if in future anything happends, i ring or have my solicitor contact the other persons insurance and they send out someone to investigate the claim?

coylemj

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117629362#Comment_117629362

When you have third party cover only, your own insurance company's concern about the accident relates solely to the prospect of the other guy claiming against you. It's up to you to lodge a claim against the other guy's insurance.

yamaha4life

I think i know what the problem is, i received an email from insurance asking for documents on the 12th to be sent within 5 days. idiot here didn't notice email, so i sent them tonight but by tomorrow they will be three days late 😕

Eggs For Dinner

The deadline is not crucial. It's designed to try and speed things up

yamaha4life

it was actually ok as i sent them to the claim investigator anyway so i probly was worried about nothing because the lack of updates so i called them today, they said it was still under investigation and that my claim handler is not back until the end of the week! so at a guess i hope this will be squared away at the end of the week / early next week.

i got my repair estimate its in the thousands approx 1/2 the value of my vehicle so im assuming its not a write off?

yamaha4life

just an update in case anyone is interested! i will know my fate next week regarding my car repair claim. hopefully all goes well and i will have my car back etc.

my dash camera arrived and i have it setup and ready for installation. i hope to never going through this again and if for some reason i do the dash camera should really help

thanks everyone who commented with advice i am much better informed now and will be very well prepared in future.

wyrn

Any update @yamaha4life? Did it get sorted in the end?

yamaha4life

Hi, yes i got a call from the insurance company and the other party was found at fault after the investigation. my car is being repaired at the moment and i was told my no claims will not be effected.

because the other party disputed fault and tried to counter claim it left me 3 weeks without a car or courtesy car while they carried out the investigation. which also stalled my own cars repair work by 3 weeks im looking at approx 2 more weeks until my car is repaired.

its an ordeal i wouldn't like to go through again but i have learned alot from it and i will have a dash camera in my car at all times while driving in the future.

on_the_roots

Your insurer should never delay the courtesy car to you because the investigation was not complete. The courtesy car should have nothing to do with who is at fault, it should be handed over regardless.

I hope you will not have price increases in future. I've heard stories of people having it even not being at fault on claims.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761289#Comment_117761289

There's a bizarre insurance policy where you have to state for 5 years if you have claimed even if you were 100% in the right. I can only imagine they ask to increase the premium. They shouldn't be allowed to ask that.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760154#Comment_117760154

Glad you got sorted. The changing blame story is a very common tactic, sometimes used by the driver involved and responsible for the accident, and sometimes even advised by their advisors as there is always a slight chance that you might cave in, or change your story under the added pressure.

I was involved in an accident once where the other driver was totally at fault and admitted same. The next thing was that I received a solicitors letter saying that following their consideration I was totally at fault and that the case would be contested.

Despite me being very stressed at this development, my solicitor said to ignore it and await the investigation... in the end, he was right, all the tactic did was to delay and complicate the case so increasing costs for the other sides insurance company. It is a ruthless tactic that piles added stress upon injury, but it is unfortunately quite common.

coylemj

It is a ruthless tactic that piles added stress upon injury, but it is unfortunately quite common.

You yourself gave us the reason why this happens....

The changing blame story is a very common tactic, sometimes used by the driver involved and responsible for the accident, and sometimes even advised by their advisors as there is always a slight chance that you might cave in, or change your story under the added pressure.

It's not just the other driver they will try it on. I was a witness to an accident once, my car was stopped at traffic lights and not in any way involved in the accident, it happened in front of me while I was stopped at a red light. Like a good citizen, I waited for the Gardai and gave my name so that the innocent driver would get compensated by the other guy's insurance but the solicitor of the guy who caused the accident sent me a letter saying the accident was 100% my fauilt!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117766169#Comment_117766169

No good deed etc. etc.

ahnowbrowncow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117766169#Comment_117766169

Is this not fraud? Lying for financial gain at the expense of others? I know the difficulty is proving it.

How'd it play out in the end?

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767020#Comment_117767020

As you can see from the OP's experience, and the post above from Ger Roe, it appears to be common practice by the driver who caused the accident and their solicitors to blame everyone else and hope some sucker caves in. If you were just a witness (as in my case), the biggest mistake you can make is to even reply to them. So I ignored the solicitor's letter and never heard from them again.

Is it fraud? Could be but getting a conviction would be well high impossible because there is a high bar of proof required in criminal cases and it's usually one man's word against another. The insurance companies can usually tell who is talking BS so typically the innocent party gets compensated. As happened in this case.

on_the_roots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117766169#Comment_117766169

Cases like this just enforces how essential is it to have a dash cam nowadays.

FileNotFound

Your in the hands of the Gods to an extent, Gardai in their report will provide a generic description of events in which they may assign a certain level of blame to one side or the other.

Having been on the other side of this story (based on the OP), the car pulling out of the sideroad/gateway is at fault.

Assuming you were not done for speeding at the scene etc. I would imagine it would go the way of my own experience.

Mind you some insurance companies in this situation will negotiate a 70/30 thing, then the other person piles on a personal injury claim (even at 30% they will cover their car cost and premium increase potentially). All you can do is build a good relationship with your claim handler and hope they back you.