Should NPHET be disbanded ?

There was a poll on this last autumn and it was a No from boards at the time

Pwindedd

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. Edit: as well as health, virology experts of course.
There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

Relax brah

No definitely not - they have other duties outside of covid, anyone who suggests otherwise doesn’t know what are taking about it.

It would be more dangerous to disband at this point.

An Ri rua

NSYnC were so I suppose it's inevitable isn't it? Tony and the Boys will re-form for the next Pandemic though.

fun loving criminal

What is with the hatred towards Nphet? The WHO has said we are in a dangerous part of the pandemic and it's not over yet. Yet no bitching goes on about them.

POBox19

Pwindedd wrote: »

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

What would 'economists, psychologists, social welfare experts' know about public health? About as much as the elected government.

Calahonda52

Pwindedd wrote: »

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

.
Must get the Hubble to find this universe
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/multimedia/index.html

grogi

POBox19 wrote: »

What would 'economists, psychologists, social welfare experts' know about public health? About as much as the elected government.

NPHET seems so preoccupied about COVID that forgets about different aspects of public health: cancer and depression to name a few.

seamus

Disbanding a National Public Health Emergency Team in the middle of a National Public Health Emergency, is...misguided...to put it very politely.

It's the kind of thing Trump or Bolsonaro would do.

Notmything

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet? The WHO has said we are in a dangerous part of the pandemic and it's not over yet. Yet no bitching goes on about them.

Something something not elected etc

is_that_so

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet? The WHO has said we are in a dangerous part of the pandemic and it's not over yet. Yet no bitching goes on about them.

The WHO can be ignored, NPHET provides advice that affects our lives in a very direct way. The government could say thanks but no thanks to what they say. It will be disbanded once it is no longer required so some time after we get everyone vaccinated.

Beasty

It should not be disbanded. It should though be instructed to work with the Government. There has been little if any evidence of this and it is the Government that should force the point.

ELM327

Yes, time to get rid of the prohibitionist case count fetishists and let the country open up

duffman13

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet? The WHO has said we are in a dangerous part of the pandemic and it's not over yet. Yet no bitching goes on about them.

The WHO has a worldwide remit so given worldwide vaccination rates and disease spread, the situation is probably somewhat comparable to Ireland in late January. NPHET issues advice for one country only.

Personally I'd say no with the caveat of tweaking it to include economists and have a wider panel of people

is_that_so

Beasty wrote: »

It should not be disbanded. It should though be instructed to work with the Government. There has been little if any evidence of this and it is the Government that should force the point.

Yes, there is a sense that they believe that only they can make these decisions. No danger of our government moving on that for a good while.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Disbanding a National Public Health Emergency Team in the middle of a National Public Health Emergency, is...misguided...to put it very politely.

It's the kind of thing Trump or Bolsonaro would do.

A public health emergency with less than 20 people in ICU in the whole country for weeks now ?

Pwindedd

POBox19 wrote: »

What would 'economists, psychologists, social welfare experts' know about public health? About as much as the elected government.

I’ve edited my original post. I just think a multi faceted approach to COVID is required. It really isn’t just a health issue anymore IMO.

Lux23

There is no way the Government would ever disband NPHET because they are a convenient scapegoat for them when people are giving out about public health measures. This is now the third time the spin doctors in government have allowed NPHET to take the heat, and the media/public are quite happy to follow the spin.

elperello

Preposterous to even consider such a suggestion.

Should be renamed the Lemming Thread.

Floppybits

Don't think they should be disbanded but I do think that members of NPHET need to change every 3 or 4 months to avoid exhaustion and group think. Get in fresh ideas.

ixoy

No it shouldn't - it serves a purpose in providing medical advice and health guidelines to the government.

The government's job though is to take that advice into consideration when making a decision - and that can include ignoring elements of it. It can also include questioning the advice be it asking about their modelling or seeking clarification. They've got a wider responsibility that includes the economy, society, etc and they need to be able to factor those in. They've been very weak doing this and trying to use December/January fallout (when he had no vaccinations) as a means of weaseling out of making tougher decisions.

POBox19

POBox19 wrote: »

What would 'economists, psychologists, social welfare experts' know about public health? About as much as the elected government.

Well alternatively we need a separate panel of those with equal input to any decisions around opening or closing businesses.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Disbanding a National Public Health Emergency Team in the middle of a National Public Health Emergency, is...misguided...to put it very politely.

It's the kind of thing Trump or Bolsonaro would do.

The closest thing we have in Ireland to a Trump or Bolsanaro is the current head of NPHET. Tweeting about everything and anything like a loose cannon. Micheal Martin is the anti-Trump or Bolsonaro - he has no opinions of his own whatsoever.

This isn't the remit of a public health advisor .... he should advise in private.

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

Dr. Bre

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet? The WHO has said we are in a dangerous part of the pandemic and it's not over yet. Yet no bitching goes on about them.

The Who?

ednwireland

Beasty wrote: »

It should not be disbanded. It should though be instructed to work with the Government. There has been little if any evidence of this and it is the Government that should force the point.

It should though be instructed to work through the Government, they shouldnt be tweeting or giving the press commentary or appearing on the late late for that matter

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

Agree 100%. Spot on.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

The WHO can be ignored, NPHET provides advice that affects our lives in a very direct way. The government could say thanks but no thanks to what they say. It will be disbanded once it is no longer required so some time after we get everyone vaccinated.

So....your problem is with the government, who already have lobby groups and voters and the civil service and their own legal and parliamentary advisors to weigh in

What's the problem, other than you dont agree with the govt decision?

secman

We should obviously disband it, we have a good cross selection of Publicans, Hoteliers, Restaurant owners, Airline owners to replace them with. These people have all the answers............ i jest and laugh at the notion

ted1

Pwindedd wrote: »

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. Edit: as well as health, virology experts of course.
There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

They would not be qualified to fulfill NPHETs role. However the government could take NOHETS advise and balance it between input from other stake holders

Silentcorner

Jesus can we keep Trump and Balsanero out of this thread, only the truly brainwashed would even consider them relevant to us.

Nphet will never allow society to fully reopen, that much is clear, and it's up to the politicians then to decide whether they wish to go along with that or not.

secman

secman wrote: »

We should obviously disband it, we have a good cross selection of Publicans, Hoteliers, Restaurant owners, Airline owners to replace them with. These people have all the answers............ i jest and laugh at the notion

Well it's just as ridiculous as a bunch of admins from the "fantastically well run" HSE knowing everything about every aspect of the economy and society ! Balance is needed.

Pwindedd

Pwindedd wrote: »

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. Edit: as well as health, virology experts of course.
There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

You do realize that NPHET only deals with public health from a medical point of view and are not the only expert advisors to government?

Why would be have experts on economics and other non related areas included? Should we have doctors included on the financial side?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well it's just as ridiculous as a bunch of admins from the "fantastically well run" HSE knowing everything about every aspect of the economy and society ! Balance is needed.

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well alternatively we need a separate panel of those with equal input to any decisions around opening or closing businesses.

We have them. We have expert advisors in pretty much all areas

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

Most of this can't be avoided. The MoH and MoF are involved with the Cabinet sub-committee which filters NHPET advice. That came after the October NPHET event. What they really should not be doing is forcing government policy, that's not their job. It would also be very useful if they could reel in winter predictions before it has been dealt with in government.

Mrcaramelchoc

No definitely not. They are doing a great job imo.
What should be disbanded are the bunch of cretins moaning and bitching about nphet every single day in the comments section of journal.ie

is_that_so

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We have them. We have expert advisors in pretty much all areas

Not as input in NPHET.

Oranage2

We needed other options, so far Nphet have only come up with lockdown and no lockdown. Their phased plan that took them ages to come up with fell apart within days. They implemented travel restrictions too late and now are keeping them closed too long. The track and trace fell apart as soon as we had over 100 cases. I think they've been a complete fail.

What do ye all do yerselves, lads, out of interest

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

1) Isn't that part of their remit though ? They can't advise based on the health service we'd like, it can only be based on the one we have.

2) Media are always going to ask questions. How would it look or be perceived if the CMO didn't take questions ? You'd have people on about the cult of secrecy or how they're like the politburo or some other such sh1te.

3) Similar to point 2. I agree their communications have been mostly terrible through the second half of this, but you can't silence them like that. You'll have those affected by their decisions complaining that their businesses are shut and no-one has explained why. Like it or not (and I don't particularly) social media is part of the "game" now.

4) No, he shouldn't. Health advice is health advice. MoF role should be at government level after they have received the medical advice, when government are deciding what to do. Government have to take the other factors into account, not the doctors etc.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

They are not

sameoldname

Getting rid of the problem is hard, let's get rid of the people who tell us about the problem instead!

ballsymchugh

grogi wrote: »

NPHET seems so preoccupied about COVID that forgets about different aspects of public health: cancer and depression to name a few.

their whole point throughout the pandemic is to keep people out of hospitals so that cancer care and other treatment can function as much as possible, where the ICU beds aren't full, and the staff aren't taking time off through illness.

Russman

is_that_so wrote: »

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

Do we know for sure that they didn't though ? I get what you're saying alright, and its certainly the perception, but maybe the government happen to actually agree with NPHET ?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

What do ye all do yerselves, lads, out of interest

Is this where posters are deemed unworthy to judge NPHET? They have made mistakes, not all of them in the public health area but very much in how they communicate and particular in their lack of a grasp of politics.

JDxtra

We need to move forward as a nation. Current NPHET need to tone it down with the doom and gloom(which they won't), or the Government need to balance their advice with everything else (which they also won't).

So maybe they should recycle some of the NPHET members? You know who has probably had enough time at the top anyways.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

I don't recall any other committees addressing the nation on a weekly basis? I don't think they are the government. I think the government and opposition have gone missing in action since all this started.

Hurrache

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet?

Usually stupidity.

ednwireland

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

No definitely not. They are doing a great job imo.
What should be disbanded are the bunch of cretins moaning and bitching about nphet every single day in the comments section of journal.ie

we've seen no reduction in covid rates in what 8 + weeks ? please explain what they are doing so well ?