America & Its Moronic Foreign Policy

Labaik

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yet the only reason the western world enjoys democracy today is due to the very power America can project around the globe.

Very easy for an Irish person from a country that contributes less than zero to the security of the western world, risks absolutely nothing and hides behind the cowardice of "neutrality" to make trite statements about the country that guarantees the freedoms you enjoy, putting their own soldiers on the line day in day out, even though you have no appreciation of that fact.

America's foreign policy guarantees the freedoms we enjoy how exactly?

Kermit.de.frog

Labaik wrote: »

America's foreign policy guarantees the freedoms we enjoy how exactly?

For Europe you have to look at Russia. It is not Germany or France or Britain that has Aegis destroyers with nuclear capable missiles in the Mediterranean. It is not the latter that provides the missile interception sites in Poland or Romania. It's the United States that bares the true weight of providing Europe's defense shield and that is the only reason the Russian army doesn't take the Baltic States and all of Ukraine as a first step.

Similarly in Asia the only reason Taiwan survives as a separate entity from China to this day is because of the US Pacific defense strategy and they also provide the same missile interception capability for South Korea, Japan as well as Taiwan.

If/when China strikes for Taiwan (and they will some day), the west will have a choice, who are the ones going to fight?

Will Ireland or even Europe send a single soldier when it all kicks off?

Thought not...we'll let the yanks do it - as usual, and you'll sit back and say "I protest!"

Das Reich

Hello 2D Person Below wrote: »

The United States military is the greatest terrorist organisation on earth and has been for two centuries.

But can't say this here as Irish people would be offended.

Feisar

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

For Europe you have to look at Russia. It is not Germany or France or Britain that has Aegis destroyers with nuclear capable missiles in the Mediterranean. It is not the latter that provides the missile interception sites in Poland or Romania. It's the United States that bares the true weight of providing Europe's defense shield and that is the only reason the Russian army doesn't take the Baltic States and all of Ukraine as a first step.

Similarly in Asia the only reason Taiwan survives as a separate entity from China to this day is because of the US Pacific defense strategy and they also provide the same missile interception capability for South Korea, Japan as well as Taiwan.

If/when China strikes for Taiwan (and they will some day), the west will have a choice, who are the ones going to fight?

Will Ireland or even Europe send a single soldier when it all kicks off?

Thought not...we'll let the yanks do it - as usual, and you'll sit back and say "I protest!"

You can’t handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it you? You Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility that you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have the luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Santiago’s death while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence while grotesque, and incomprehensible, to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that well, you need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something, you use them as a punchline. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself, to a man who rises and sleeps, under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and than questions the manner in which I provide them! I’d rather you just said ‘thank you’, and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn, what you think you are entitled to!

FTA69

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I have no.love for American foreign policy but if the bombing was in retaliation for strikes against them and killed rebel fighters then wheres the issue?

Sorry but I think you’re missing the key question about what f*cking right do the Americans have to be in Iraq in the first place?

Is it not remotely odd to you that this shower have military bases all over the world for their own self-serving reasons?

Kermit.de.frog

FTA69 wrote: »

Sorry but I think you’re missing the key question about what f*cking right do the Americans have to be in Iraq in the first place?

Is it not remotely odd to you that this shower have military bases all over the world for their own self-serving reasons?

Would you rather it was China or Russia who had these capabilities all over the world? Someone is going to have the baton one way or another. At least the United States is a western democracy.

Feisar

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Would you rather it was China or Russia who had these capabilities all over the world? Someone is going to have the baton one way or another. At least the United States is a western democracy.

Western democracy is a stretch as regardless of who’s in the White House big corporations rule the roost. I’d say at least they are Western.
Imagine if a country with Sharia Law types had that global capacity?

FTA69

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Would you rather it was China or Russia who had these capabilities all over the world? Someone is going to have the baton one way or another. At least the United States is a western democracy.

Didn’t care much for the auld democracy when they were funding right wing death squads in Nicaragua and trying to topple democratically elected governments in South America did they?

Kermit.de.frog

Feisar wrote: »

Western democracy is a stretch as regardless of who’s in the White House big corporations rule the roost. I’d say at least they are Western.
Imagine if a country with Sharia Law types had that global capacity?

That's the great contradiction. Some bemoan the power the US has around the world and their faults yet no answer will be forth coming when asked "if not them, who?"...

...because the only answers are not compatible with their own opinions.

markodaly

Hello 2D Person Below wrote: »

The United States military is the greatest terrorist organisation on earth and has been for two centuries.

So, in 1821 the United States military was the biggest terrorist organization on earth?
About 6 European empires existed back then...

People Loooooove to hyperbole stuff about the US, and they mostly don't have a notion.

Melanchthon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I have no.love for American foreign policy but if the bombing was in retaliation for strikes against them and killed rebel fighters then wheres the issue?

Here after Suleimani was killed you were very active in the thread against it.
Suleimani was way more involved in strikes against Americans than a few random rebel fighters could have ever been.

Is it literally Trump did it = I disagree

Biden did it = I agree.

And oh all those massively negative consequences for the US that killing Suleimani was going to be bring about seem strangely absent.

Timberrrrrrrr

Melanchthon wrote: »

Here after Suleimani was killed you were very active in the thread against it.
Suleimani was way more involved in strikes against Americans than a few random rebel fighters could have ever been.

Is it literally Trump did it = I disagree

Biden did it = I agree.

And oh all those massively negative consequences for the US that killing Suleimani was going to be bring about seem strangely absent.

Yea I was quite vocal in that thread, do you know why?

Let's look at the difference.

Rebel fighters shoot at American bases/assets, Americans find out where they are and using precision guided missiles take out the bases = Legal(ish) pissès off the Iraqis to some extent but no real harm done.


Suleimani was invited to Iraq by the government, the Americans took it upon themselves to assassinate him on Iraqi soil also killing Iraqi soldiers = state terrorism, they literally broke international law and almost caused a war.

So to flip your words back at you, it seems to me that your stance is

Trump did it = I agree

Biden did it = I disagree

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

For Europe you have to look at Russia. It is not Germany or France or Britain that has Aegis destroyers with nuclear capable missiles in the Mediterranean. It is not the latter that provides the missile interception sites in Poland or Romania. It's the United States that bares the true weight of providing Europe's defense shield and that is the only reason the Russian army doesn't take the Baltic States and all of Ukraine as a first step.

Except, of course, Russia has little interest in expanding beyond their traditional borders, and even then, there's little benefit in doing so anymore. The taking of territory has become far too costly for a modern nation, since it's essentially impossible to wipe out the local population. While, Eastern Europe has something to fear from Russia, Western Europe doesn't.. because Russia wouldn't gain anything from taking us on, even if they were successful. Russia isn't a true threat, in any case, because their military isn't the beast that it once was. The advance of technology, but also, the availability of weaponry for small groups to engage in guerrilla style warfare means that Russia would be seriously hurt by any kind of occupation.

Waging war is one thing. Occupation is another. The simple fact is that it's just not worth the expense for Russia, and Europe isn't a threat to them.

Similarly in Asia the only reason Taiwan survives as a separate entity from China to this day is because of the US Pacific defense strategy and they also provide the same missile interception capability for South Korea, Japan as well as Taiwan.

China could take Taiwan and it wouldn't affect any of our freedoms. It's Asia, not anywhere near our own borders, and a China with Taiwan incorporated wouldn't affect our freedoms.

If/when China strikes for Taiwan (and they will some day), the west will have a choice, who are the ones going to fight?

Will Ireland or even Europe send a single soldier when it all kicks off?

Hopefully none. It's not our war. Nor should it be.

Thought not...we'll let the yanks do it - as usual, and you'll sit back and say "I protest!"

Yup, let the Yanks do it, because they've invested so much effort into the region. In any case, there's a very good chance that the US wouldn't get involved.

Remember the quote you responded to?

"Originally Posted by Labaik, America's foreign policy guarantees the freedoms we enjoy how exactly?"

You gave a list of scenarios, none of which are a threat to our freedoms. So, how does the US protect our freedoms?

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's the great contradiction. Some bemoan the power the US has around the world and their faults yet no answer will be forth coming when asked "if not them, who?"...

...because the only answers are not compatible with their own opinions.

Did you ask the question and wait for answers?

Why does there have to be anyone? If not them, why the assumption that some nation has to take the top spotlight, but who else is around?

China is a paper tiger with mostly a outdated military, with serious problems being able to project itself. China would struggle against Japan or S.Korea in any kind of conflict even without US involvement. So, what's the threat? That they would play around in Asia, and Africa, the same way that the US has played around in the M.East, S.America, and Africa?

None of the M.Eastern nations are a threat beyond their own region. Russia, isnt much of a threat either with it's buckling economy, massive inefficiencies, and corruption.

The truth is that things would probably continue as before. Few westerners seriously care about the dozens of wars ongoing around the world.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's the great contradiction. Some bemoan the power the US has around the world and their faults yet no answer will be forth coming when asked "if not them, who?"...

...because the only answers are not compatible with their own opinions.

Who says it has to be anyone? Territorial expansion is now largely pointless thanks to the rise of international trade and financial services. Much quicker and easier to buy what you need. You still have exceptions like Putin's invasion of Crimea but they're now aberrations as opposed to the norm.

The US lost its unalloyed reputation as the good guy when it began dabbling in the affairs of other nations after World War 2. The invasions of Afganistan and Iraq have been nothing but disastrous for both those nations and for the world as a whole.

The idea that we should be slavishly fawning over American power is so daft I'm surprised when I see people doing it at all, let alone on an Irish site.

TefalBrain

ulster wrote: »

It's great that this has got absolutely nothing to do with Ireland.

Ireland plays a huge role in the logistic support of the US war machine through it's base in Shannon so we do in fact have skin in the game.