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Next fuel type?

  • 13-06-2021 7:34pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    So I've had a 181 Mazda 3 1.5 diesels for few years.
    Get about 1000km from a full tank , been excellent car great fuel economy.

    Have 2 kids now and boot is a bit small in it so looking to upgrade.

    Driving is a bit of a mix :
    Nearest supermarket is about 15 mins away which involves regional road at 100km to get there.

    Work is a 36km commute n morning and same n evening on 100km or 120km dual carriages for total of 72km round trip 3 times a week.

    Other than that just arsing around , kids to beach etc.

    Quite like the New Tucson and the Rav 4 but very confused on fuel type:
    Diesel - seems to be dying out and seen various things saying to avoid it.
    Hybrid - fuel efficiency seems low and doesn't touch the Mazda some Rav4 figures aren't great. Would it not suit my work commute ?
    PHEV- maybe this is suited , but they are so much more expensive.

    Main thing is a car with decent boot size and good fuel economy for kids stuff, but as I say confused what to look for. Any recommendations or general advice n right direction would be welcome


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,173 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC


    Did you check out the new Mazda MX-30? Maybe it would work for you.
    Also the MG ZS EV is nice. Maybe an electric car could work for you so you could check it out and the Nissan Leaf.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    Budget is main question?


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    Thanks thought the new Mazda was small. The Mazda 3 is now proving too small. Leaf is same. Something with nice big boot , close to 500L or more.

    Haven't looked at MG.
    Budget would be 30-45k.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    Tesla Model 3 SR+
    Full EV with WLTP range of 448km (real world motorway around 300, real world pottering around locally around 500)
    Boot is 425 litres (total from rear boot & front boot)
    start at €48k
    0-100% fill costs around €4 (night rate)
    Exclusive Tesla only SuperCharging network for when taking trips up/down the country (20%-80% charge in 25-30 minutes)

    0-100 in 5.6 seconds.

    Lots and lots of fun, and plenty on the big screen to keep the kids entertained.

    Test drive one and I guarantee you'll be ordering one within days of the test drive.

    I switched over about 15 months ago from a 3 Series, having known the square root of fcuk all about EV's, and have not regretted it 1 bit. Have driven it all around the country many times without a single bother or thought of the so called 'range anxiety'.

    You've also got the all new fully electric VW ID.4 SUV, which look fantastic, and have around 500km's of range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,173 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Thanks thought the new Mazda was small. The Mazda 3 is now proving too small. Leaf is same. Something with nice big boot , close to 500L or more.

    Haven't looked at MG.
    Budget would be 30-45k.

    A Skoda maybe a Superb or the new Enyaq would be worth looking into.
    You could probably afford a new Peugeot 508 too but not sure how big the boot is on that but it's a beautiful car.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭ Leonard Hofstadter


    john_doe. wrote: »
    So I've had a 181 Mazda 3 1.5 diesels for few years.
    Get about 1000km from a full tank , been excellent car great fuel economy.

    Have 2 kids now and boot is a bit small in it so looking to upgrade.

    Driving is a bit of a mix :
    Nearest supermarket is about 15 mins away which involves regional road at 100km to get there.

    Work is a 36km commute n morning and same n evening on 100km or 120km dual carriages for total of 72km round trip 3 times a week.

    Other than that just arsing around , kids to beach etc.

    Quite like the New Tucson and the Rav 4 but very confused on fuel type:
    Diesel - seems to be dying out and seen various things saying to avoid it.
    Hybrid - fuel efficiency seems low and doesn't touch the Mazda some Rav4 figures aren't great. Would it not suit my work commute ?
    PHEV- maybe this is suited , but they are so much more expensive.

    Main thing is a car with decent boot size and good fuel economy for kids stuff, but as I say confused what to look for. Any recommendations or general advice n right direction would be welcome

    Stick with diesel as long as you don't care about resale values. Your driving is perfect for it really


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    Stick with diesel as long as you don't care about resale values. Your driving is perfect for it really

    Thanks ya I've always thought my driving suits a diesel. I hit the open road from my house to get to a shop so it's not really like driving around towns
    Enyaq is mad money. Like Skoda but the kodiaq is a big bus.

    The tuscon Diesel seems to suit and I like the car , would PCP protect against the ass falling out of the market.

    Also I do like the RAV4 but don't know is it suited to my driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭ Leonard Hofstadter


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Thanks ya I've always thought my driving suits a diesel. I hit the open road from my house to get to a shop so it's not really like driving around towns
    Enyaq is mad money. Like Skoda but the kodiaq is a big bus.

    The tuscon Diesel seems to suit and I like the car , would PCP protect against the ass falling out of the market.

    Also I do like the RAV4 but don't know is it suited to my driving.

    You also have the sheer damn convenience of having a petrol or diesel, too. No plugging it in, no hassle of finding a charger, no worries about range, no forward planning on a longer journey, just fill it up every week or fortnight which wastes five minutes of your time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Thanks ya I've always thought my driving suits a diesel. I hit the open road from my house to get to a shop so it's not really like driving around towns
    Enyaq is mad money. Like Skoda but the kodiaq is a big bus.

    The tuscon Diesel seems to suit and I like the car , would PCP protect against the ass falling out of the market.

    Also I do like the RAV4 but don't know is it suited to my driving.

    Your driving doesn't suit diesel. In reality you are perfect for electric. Now I am not saying you should buy electric.

    The market is moving away from diesel but that is not to say diesel is not going to be sold for many years to come. PCP will be terrible for diesel and I wouldn't recommend. If you are buying second hand then no problem really.

    Are you planning new or second hand?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    You also have the sheer damn convenience of having a petrol or diesel, too. No plugging it in, no hassle of finding a charger, no worries about range, no forward planning on a longer journey, just fill it up every week or fortnight which wastes five minutes of your time.

    Your advice is about 2-3 years old. For the driving the OP is doing they won't need to use a charge point, everything can be done at home and they wake up each morning with a full tank. Plus it cost a lot less.

    The days of range concerns on newer cars are long gone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,173 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC


    When are you thinking of buying? If you could wait there is a new Kia Sportage on the way but if not you could get a great deal on current Sportages knowing that and the Sportage black edition is nice. It has twin exhausts too and that really adds to it. Just do not order one in black that just ruins the whole point of it. They look really well in red.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭ Leonard Hofstadter


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Your driving doesn't suit diesel. In reality you are perfect for electric. Now I am not saying you should buy electric.

    The market is moving away from diesel but that is not to say diesel is not going to be sold for many years to come. PCP will be terrible for diesel and I wouldn't recommend. If you are buying second hand then no problem really.

    Are you planning new or second hand?

    Those kind of commutes couldn't be more suited to diesel if they tried!

    Diesel is still the most popular fuel type in new cars by the way, it won't be around forever but for the next few years it still has merit.

    Some of the so called alternatives are pathetic, like the Mazda MX30 with its pathetic 200 km range.

    And as we all know, the WLTP is hopelessly optimistic, yes for ICE fuel consumption figures are optimistic but the difference is that there's petrol stations everywhere and it only takes a few minutes of one's time.

    EVs are way too much of a compromise no matter how much the numerous fanboys want to delude the OP into thinking otherwise.

    At the rate battery technology is improving today's offerings are going to look hopelessly compromised in a few years' time, whereas petrol and diesel will still be as convenient then as they are now, so if resale values are a concern I'd be more worried about that tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Your advice is about 2-3 years old. For the driving the OP is doing they won't need to use a charge point, everything can be done at home and they wake up each morning with a full tank. Plus it cost a lot less.

    The days of range concerns on newer cars are long gone.

    Problem is really as I see it and I really just want to get some thing that works for me while fuel costs less the intitial outlay is far greater.

    Electric equivalents are far more expensive. Even hybrid or PHEV. I like the new tuscon but the PHEV is vastly more expensive.

    Electrics for family driving also seem to be a compromise. The SUV style that gives room for family driving are very limiting. The Enyaq looks good but prices are crazy. Boot space is usually reduced.

    I'd have no real problem getting an electric or hybrid , if they could do anything close to my current Mazda 3 and didn't cost a bomb to purchase.

    The MG is the only thing I've seen (thanks to the poster) that really fits the bill for bigger family on reasonable price. The Hyundai kona is very small.

    So really I'm still looking and see the points being made here as valuable , it's probably similar for a lot of folks with families. Talking to my inlaws they left diesel to go hybrid and hate it, burning too much fuel.
    I think families would switch but the choices aren't great and the electric equivalents are much more expensive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    Those kind of commutes couldn't be more suited to diesel if they tried!

    Diesel is still the most popular fuel type in new cars by the way, it won't be around forever but for the next few years it still has merit.

    Some of the so called alternatives are pathetic, like the Mazda MX30 with its pathetic 200 km range.

    And as we all know, the WLTP is hopelessly optimistic, yes for ICE fuel consumption figures are optimistic but the difference is that there's petrol stations everywhere and it only takes a few minutes of one's time.

    EVs are way too much of a compromise no matter how much the numerous fanboys want to delude the OP into thinking otherwise.

    At the rate battery technology is improving today's offerings are going to look hopelessly compromised in a few years' time, whereas petrol and diesel will still be as convenient then as they are now, so if resale values are a concern I'd be more worried about that tbh.

    Im not a fanboy of electric. I just bought myself a diesel. Those types of commutes don't suit diesel and sorry but no idea how you would think it. 36km in a diesel to work? a round trip of 72km even a Gen 1 Leaf would do.

    It's fairly pointless engaging with you because it is clear you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Best of luck to you


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Problem is really as I see it and I really just want to get some thing that works for me while fuel costs less the intitial outlay is far greater.

    Electric equivalents are far more expensive. Even hybrid or PHEV. I like the new tuscon but the PHEV is vastly more expensive.

    Electrics for family driving also seem to be a compromise. The SUV style that gives room for family driving are very limiting. The Enyaq looks good but prices are crazy. Boot space is usually reduced.

    I'd have no real problem getting an electric or hybrid , if they could do anything close to my current Mazda 3 and didn't cost a bomb to purchase.

    The MG is the only thing I've seen (thanks to the poster) that really fits the bill for bigger family on reasonable price. The Hyundai kona is very small.

    So really I'm still looking and see the points being made here as valuable , it's probably similar for a lot of folks with families. Talking to my inlaws they left diesel to go hybrid and hate it, burning too much fuel.
    I think families would switch but the choices aren't great and the electric equivalents are much more expensive.

    I don't disagree with you by the way. Im just saying your driving requirements suit electric far more than diesel.

    You could go second hand, a newish second hand Outlander will give you circa 40-50ish km based on what I have seen on the web. It has a large boot and will meet your requirements as most of the journey will be done on battery with the petrol kicking in then. You need the newer model with bigger battery as the older only does 30km on the battery.

    Hybrid like Toyota's can be hard on fuel if bought for the wrong type of driving. The new RAV4 is a great car but it is a very big and heavy SUV, so you have to consider it is probably economic for a large SUV, but comparing it to a car it is not.

    You can go diesel of course, but it would be interesting to see what garages offer because at the moment the arse has fallen out of diesel and it will continue. Especially new diesel. I had a requirement and my options where limited so I ended up in a diesel, but I bought second hand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭ joe40


    I'm not sure I would buy diesel brand new but I'm currently close to sealing a deal on a 3 year Skoda superb for less than 20 k. It still seems the best value for me in terms of fuel costs and initial outlay. I think there will still be a market for second hand diesels in 5 years time so car will still be worth something.

    By the way in terms of practicality, space and comfort estates beat SUVs hands down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    I don't disagree with you by the way. Im just saying your driving requirements suit electric far more than diesel.

    You could go second hand, a newish second hand Outlander will give you circa 40-50ish km based on what I have seen on the web. It has a large boot and will meet your requirements as most of the journey will be done on battery with the petrol kicking in then. You need the newer model with bigger battery as the older only does 30km on the battery.

    Hybrid like Toyota's can be hard on fuel if bought for the wrong type of driving. The new RAV4 is a great car but it is a very big and heavy SUV, so you have to consider it is probably economic for a large SUV, but comparing it to a car it is not.

    You can go diesel of course, but it would be interesting to see what garages offer because at the moment the arse has fallen out of diesel and it will continue. Especially new diesel. I had a requirement and my options where limited so I ended up in a diesel, but I bought second hand.

    Had look at outlander , it's got really old chasis underneath. Needs a full overhaul at this stage and not a fan
    So leads me back to problem of diesel gives fuel economy , hybrids are not going be economical in SUV and electrics are too small or crazy prices in SUV. So there is not much choice really bar diesel it seems if I want a reasonable sized SUV that is someway suited to my driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Your driving doesn't suit diesel. In reality you are perfect for electric. Now I am not saying you should buy electric.

    The market is moving away from diesel but that is not to say diesel is not going to be sold for many years to come. PCP will be terrible for diesel and I wouldn't recommend. If you are buying second hand then no problem really.

    Are you planning new or second hand?

    Why is PCP terrible for diesel ?
    They are so many new kodiaq diesels I see on road.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Why is PCP terrible for diesel ?
    They are so many new kodiaq diesels I see on road.

    Have you driven one yet or sat into them?

    What will the Kodiaq be worth in 3 years time on your PCP when you have to trade in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Have you driven one yet or sat into them?

    What will the Kodiaq be worth in 3 years time on your PCP when you have to trade in?

    No I've no interest in a kodiaq.
    I've no idea what it will be.

    I was asking why PCP is so bad for diesel and surprised as I see tons of new kodiaq diesels near me. Will people be loosing a lot of money on these., One of my friends has a new 2022 on order in diesel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭ User1998


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    PCP will be terrible for diesel and I wouldn't recommend.

    The current PCP deals are usually a much better rate for diesel cars than they are for hybrids or fully electric


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    User1998 wrote: »
    The current PCP deals are usually a much better rate for diesel cars than they are for hybrids or fully electric

    What would happen if diesel plummeted further in value , would the PCP deal offer any protection come end of the term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭ Leonard Hofstadter


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Problem is really as I see it and I really just want to get some thing that works for me while fuel costs less the intitial outlay is far greater.

    Electric equivalents are far more expensive. Even hybrid or PHEV. I like the new tuscon but the PHEV is vastly more expensive.

    Electrics for family driving also seem to be a compromise. The SUV style that gives room for family driving are very limiting. The Enyaq looks good but prices are crazy. Boot space is usually reduced.

    I'd have no real problem getting an electric or hybrid , if they could do anything close to my current Mazda 3 and didn't cost a bomb to purchase.

    The MG is the only thing I've seen (thanks to the poster) that really fits the bill for bigger family on reasonable price. The Hyundai kona is very small.

    So really I'm still looking and see the points being made here as valuable , it's probably similar for a lot of folks with families. Talking to my inlaws they left diesel to go hybrid and hate it, burning too much fuel.
    I think families would switch but the choices aren't great and the electric equivalents are much more expensive.

    The MG only has a range of 260 km as well (in theory, so in reality, less than that), that's one of the reasons why it's so cheap. So basically, you can't go anywhere in it without having to waste an hour of your time.

    Hybrids work very well for some folks, in particular people who do mostly urban driving, they are very nice to drive, and still all the convenience of a traditional petrol or diesel car, but wouldn't be suited to your usage pattern. Anyone who does mostly main road driving simply won't get any fuel savings over a diesel - and you're paying more for the cost of filling them for the privilege since diesel is cheaper.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    john_doe. wrote: »
    No I've no interest in a kodiaq.
    I've no idea what it will be.

    I was asking why PCP is so bad for diesel and surprised as I see tons of new kodiaq diesels near me. Will people be loosing a lot of money on these., One of my friends has a new 2022 on order in diesel.

    Kodiaq are a cheap large SUV. That's why everyone is buying them. The alternative in a 7 seater is looking at BWM X5, Audi Q7, Volvo XC90 etc which are all 100k. Even the new Toyota Highlander is 70k.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    john_doe. wrote: »
    What would happen if diesel plummeted further in value , would the PCP deal offer any protection come end of the term.

    You end up buying the car out at the end of the deal or plough more money into the deal to keep on PCP

    From a Skoda garage point of view its a win win, they take a new sale, PCP and then in a few years when you land back they will point at all the Kodiaq in market, the loss of diesel and give you a terrible offer.
    User1998 wrote: »
    The current PCP deals are usually a much better rate for diesel cars than they are for hybrids or fully electric

    You see loads of 0% PCP deals on cars that companies are trying to shift. Even with electric, the ID.4 comes out so they offer the ID.3 at 0% PCP

    The deals are a lot better on the diesel because they are shifting stock. The demand in the market is for PHEV/hybrid so you don't see good deals on them because they know they can sell anyway.

    Look at Toyota, the Highlander, 70k and the PCP is at 4.9% :eek: yet I see them driving around the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    You end up buying the car out at the end of the deal or plough more money into the deal to keep on PCP

    From a Skoda garage point of view its a win win, they take a new sale, PCP and then in a few years when you land back they will point at all the Kodiaq in market, the loss of diesel and give you a terrible offer.



    You see loads of 0% PCP deals on cars that companies are trying to shift. Even with electric, the ID.4 comes out so they offer the ID.3 at 0% PCP

    The deals are a lot better on the diesel because they are shifting stock. The demand in the market is for PHEV/hybrid so you don't see good deals on them because they know they can sell anyway.

    Look at Toyota, the Highlander, 70k and the PCP is at 4.9% :eek: yet I see them driving around the road.

    But doesn't that also show volatility in electric market with ID 3 .
    They are launching cars with Diesel too, so doesn't make sense to me they are then trying to shift them.
    Taking the kodiaq they seem to be selling bucket loads of diesel so it's not really they are shifting them it's more there is demand I would have thought they are meeting and giving finance deals to appeal to their target market .


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,384 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Re fuel type a simple petrol would probably hold value better than diesel, be cheaper to buy, and have lower servicing costs.

    If I were you I’d probably go with petrol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,384 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    john_doe. wrote: »
    But doesn't that also show volatility in electric market with ID 3 .
    t .

    VW need ID.3 to be a massive seller. It’s not that they are trying to sell them, it’s that they are trying to disrupt the car market completely. ( I have one on order)


  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    fits wrote: »
    VW need ID.3 to be a massive seller. It’s not that they are trying to sell them, they are trying to disrupt the car market completely. ( I have one on order)

    Fair comment but then their PCP is designed for that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭ john_doe.


    And what about mild hybrid ?
    Hyundai have diesels with a little electric it seems.


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