Seized order letter from Revenue

RabbleRouser2k

Hi all, and hoping this is the right place to ask about this.

My mother received a letter from the revenue regarding a seizure of an order she made online, and was wondering what to do regarding the return of the items, or if there might be VAT required to be paid to have it delivered, or if something must be signed to have items seized.

Just for clarity, my mother uses snuff (the ground up tobacco) and normally was able to purchase it from a shop close by to where she lives. Unfortunately, the shop where she used to get her snuff closed down (sadly took a financial hit because of the lockdown, and closed for good early this year) and so she found it difficult to get her regular snuff near to where she lives.

So she found an online retailer, in the UK, earlier this year, and ordered her snuff from there. She got a few orders, in the post, with no problems.
But this recent one was seized.

While we contacted the revenue, and understand that tobacco should not be sent in the post, there's been no real advice on what to do. Just 'write a letter' to the Revenue at a certain address.
But what to say or include in the letter is another issue entirely.

Does one state that the order was meant for personal use, or enquire about paying VAT or possible payment charges? Any help is greatly appreciated.

whomitconcerns

She would need a licence to import tobacco so it's not just a vat thing. So the goods will be destroyed most likely. The letter didn't advise what her options, if any, were?

RabbleRouser2k

whomitconcerns wrote: »

She would need a licence to import tobacco so it's not just a vat thing. So the goods will be destroyed most likely. The letter didn't advise what her options, if any, were?

Mostly it stated that one can lodge a notice of claim, and that one must do so in writing. Then one must state the basis on which the claim is grounded. Also added that one may offer settlement terms, depending on the outcome.

It was very vague, especially since, on the revenue's own website, the Tobacco PRoduct's Tax states duties should be paid on Tobacco products, even when ordered online.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/tobacco/tobacco-products-tax/index.aspx

When I contacted the individual officer who seized the order, (as advised) they said one can contact the revenue, and they may give one the option to pay for the tobacco.

whomitconcerns

You won't win in the claim. The tax had to be paid before shipping for tobacco products, it will be a ball ache. Better off cutting your losses and just trying to find the product elsewhere in Ireland.

whiterebel

whomitconcerns wrote: »

You won't win in the claim. The tax had to be paid before shipping for tobacco products, it will be a ball ache. Better off cutting your losses and just trying to find the product elsewhere in Ireland.

How can you pay excise duty or VAT before it arrives into the State?

RabbleRouser2k

I might just write to them, take the 'L' if it doesn't pass.

It's a basic letter, right? Just including item details, reference number of seizure, and possible just mention any necessary purchase details.

frozenfrozen

Write she is addicted and the local shop closed and she can't find it in Ireland and she thought when she used Google.ie she would find irish shops online lol

lucast2007us

frozenfrozen wrote:

Write she is addicted and the local shop closed and she can't find it in Ireland and she thought when she used Google.ie she would find irish shops online lol

Just tell her to be advised that if she finds a online shop and it ends in .ie it doesn't mean to shop is located in Ireland.

The Continental Op

Not a lot of choice but https://jamesfox.ie/collections/snuff was top of the list for a google of where to buy snuff in Ireland

whomitconcerns

whiterebel wrote: »

How can you pay excise duty or VAT before it arrives into the State?

Because your a business and that's the way the tobacco and international business works. It then arrives tax paid. Thats why when you buy cigarettes they have the tax sticker in the packet sealed

RabbleRouser2k

The Continental Op wrote: »

Not a lot of choice but https://jamesfox.ie/collections/snuff was top of the list for a google of where to buy snuff in Ireland

Yeah, I might just take that one.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Write she is addicted and the local shop closed and she can't find it in Ireland and she thought when she used Google.ie she would find irish shops online lol

I'm going to pass that on. Maybe providing a receipt to prove that it was paid for, and thought that everything was covered-regarding taxes and so on.
Then pull the 'she's addicted-help' line.

lucast2007us wrote: »

Just tell her to be advised that if she finds a online shop and it ends in .ie it doesn't mean to shop is located in Ireland.

It's strange. There were no issues prior to this. Orders got thru no problem. Brexit changed so much for ordering online.
Have had some amazon orders that had to be cancelled or refunded because the wouldn't ship here anymore.

The Continental Op

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

...


It's strange. There were no issues prior to this. Orders got thru no problem. Brexit changed so much for ordering online.
Have had some amazon orders that had to be cancelled or refunded because the wouldn't ship here anymore.

Might have been the day they had the sniffer dog in or the day that someone actually bothered to read what it said on the label.

0ph0rce0

It's like a euro to a fiver depending on the size of the tins.

Unless she ordered 100's or a pallet load worth of the stuff would you not just forget the hassle and go and buy more somewhere else

whomitconcerns

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Yeah, I might just take that one.



I'm going to pass that on. Maybe providing a receipt to prove that it was paid for, and thought that everything was covered-regarding taxes and so on.
Then pull the 'she's addicted-help' line.



It's strange. There were no issues prior to this. Orders got thru no problem. Brexit changed so much for ordering online.
Have had some amazon orders that had to be cancelled or refunded because the wouldn't ship here anymore.

Law still applied the same. Maybe just cos there is more eyes on it now. Your duty free allowance only counts when it's accompanied by you in person

RabbleRouser2k

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

It's like a euro to a fiver depending on the size of the tins.

Unless she ordered 100's or a pallet load worth of the stuff would you not just forget the hassle and go and buy more somewhere else

I think just trying, really. Even if it doesn't get approved, just willing to try. I'll tell her where to get them, in Ireland. So that might help.
She bought two large tubs (200 grams) which got through before. About 80 euros, I think.

Tried again, it didn't go thru this time. If they say that we're up the creek without a paddle, that's fine. But never helps to try.

More than likely she'll order from a local supplier. (The link someone else posted). Just to avoid this hassle again. Pretty much always buys local (barring amazon or ebay) but this was just because of lacking anyone local prior to this.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Law still applied the same. Maybe just cos there is more eyes on it now. Your duty free allowance only counts when it's accompanied by you in person

Yeah. I'll let her know. Spare the hassle all over again.

whiterebel

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Because your a business and that's the way the tobacco and international business works. It then arrives tax paid. Thats why when you buy cigarettes they have the tax sticker in the packet sealed

I'm a long time dealing with International business , and I've never heard of that. Goods generally don't arrive into the state tax paid for business. Cigarettes and excisable product normally arrives into bonded warehouses and is paid when customs clearance is done. You couldn't have a "prepaid excise" agreement with a UK consignment as they are outside the EU.

Darc19

Duty will be about €60 and vat will be a further 23% on overall the total of cost, duty and delivery.

That UK duty and vat was paid will make little difference

whomitconcerns

whiterebel wrote: »

I'm a long time dealing with International business , and I've never heard of that. Goods generally don't arrive into the state tax paid for business. Cigarettes and excisable product normally arrives into bonded warehouses and is paid when customs clearance is done. You couldn't have a "prepaid excise" agreement with a UK consignment as they are outside the EU.

I understand what you are saying, but they are not "imported" until they leave the bonded warehouse. My point was that this was a complicated matter and not really for a home user. So no real way to do it properly officially for a person

RabbleRouser2k

By the way, in case I forget to say it. Thank you to everyone who gave me information and help on this topic.

You were really helpful.

If the mods want to close this thread in a few days, that's okay.
As long as others don't mind.

An Ri rua

Sigh.

Another young thread cruelly snuffed out by a Mod.

Padraig Mor

whiterebel wrote: »

I'm a long time dealing with International business , and I've never heard of that. Goods generally don't arrive into the state tax paid for business. Cigarettes and excisable product normally arrives into bonded warehouses and is paid when customs clearance is done. You couldn't have a "prepaid excise" agreement with a UK consignment as they are outside the EU.

Duty and VAT on alcohol / tobacco etc being sent to a private customer in ROI should be paid in advance by the seller, who need to be registered with Revenue (and Irish VAT applies even if you've paid VAT elsewhere) - there's a Revenue leaflet about it somewhere. In practicality, no (or very few) sellers outside will be registered in such a manner (hell, Amazon aren't) so it is, to all intents and purposes, a ban on personal import of exciseable products by mail etc.

RabbleRouser2k

I know I said to close this thread... but just posting an update.

The snuff was returned today. Rather swiftly too, because I know it was meant to take 30 days to review the case, but it took just over a week or so.

I was rather surprised, myself, that it was sent out.

The Continental Op

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I know I said to close this thread... but just posting an update.

The snuff was returned today. Rather swiftly too, because I know it was meant to take 30 days to review the case, but it took just over a week or so.

I was rather surprised, myself, that it was sent out.

Just to be clear are you saying it was sent out to your mother or returned to sender?

RabbleRouser2k

The Continental Op wrote: »

Just to be clear are you saying it was sent out to your mother or returned to sender?

Sent to my mother. She called me about 30 minutes ago. We appealed the decision, sending a letter to them.

Gonna buy local from now on tho. Spare the hassle. Use James Fox's instead.

Jerry Attrick

Well done for appealing and kudos to Revenue (my former employer) for acting decently!

whomitconcerns

Nice (lucky) result. ����

Revenue for so the bad opinions, are actually pretty decent to deal with

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117436097#Comment_117436097

Revenue is good like this, they tend to give the benefit of the doubt if it's a first 'offence' and let you away with it.

Get caught again though and it'll be a different matter so shopping local from now on is the right call.

dxhound2005

Just as well the OP didn't let them know about this part.

So she found an online retailer, in the UK, earlier this year, and ordered her snuff from there. She got a few orders, in the post, with no problems.

Probably good advice for anyone making an appeal not to mention that they got previous similar shipments with no charge. I don't know if the regulations would allow Revenue to make retrospective charges based on that information?

RabbleRouser2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759843#Comment_117759843

Well, that would count as 'hearsay', to say she'd gotten orders before. Revenue can only make charges based on what they discover, not on what you claimed.

I doubt anyone is gonna do a full scale investigation of something that was purchased and believed to be legal, and is freely available over here. It's not like she was buying cocaine or heroin online. Something we all know is illegal.

Not trying to be the next Joshua Allen over here. :)

dam099

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816503#Comment_117816503

If the person who commits the act admits to it that's not "hearsay", its a confession and could potentially be used against them.

RabbleRouser2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117823805#Comment_117823805

Well, that's probably true. But the explanation on Citizen's information regarding tobacco products is rather vague and somewhat contradictory. Even folks who work in retail (if you look back on the thread) were confused by it, with some having similar experiences to mine (no issues getting thru customs). The tobacco products got through customs before (and were inspected too, at least when you examined the packaging). If they wish to punish anyone for the orders getting through, that's kind of on them.

When I appealed the seized order, I even cited examples from citizen's information. Most folks here were saying I hadn't a prayer, but when the information available to Customs' is wishy washy, how's the everyday citzizen supposed to know if it's legal or illegal?