Save the Hellfire

podgeandrodge

For anyone interested in supporting this cause - Save the Hellfire

"Help maintain the natural integrity of this landscape and protect this natural amenity and fragile ecosystem from development."

Irish artist Jim Fitzpatrick and creator of the iconic Che image has kindly donated this historic photograph of the Hellfire Club to the Save the Hellfire campaign. Each print has been individually signed and numbered by the legendary artist. All funds raised will be used to support our legal challenge to preserve this historic site from inappropriate commercial development.

The limited edition prints are archival quality, printed on 308g German cotton paper, Hahnemuhle Photorag.
​
Image size is 21 x 31.5cm on a paper size of 29.7 x 40.85 cm

The edition is 35 (plus one retained by the artist)



https://www.savethehellfire.com/how-you-can-help


On the 25th of June, An Bord Pleanála approved Planning Permission for South Dublin County Council to build a Dublin Mountain Visitor Centre and all associated works on Montpelier Hill. Case reference: PL06S.JA0040

We the Save the Hellfire team are very disappointed with An Bord Pleanála’s decision. We are resolutely opposed to the proposed €22m overscaled inappropriately placed development and we urgently need your help. We have secured permission from the High Court to bring proceedings aimed at overturning planning permission for a €22 million (cost mentioned by SDCC at the oral hearing) visitor centre at Dublin’s Hell Fire club. A Judicial Review will be held on the 8th June, 2021.

We are all too aware of the economic pressure people are under in Ireland today, and of the implication of asking you for funds to support this campaign. However the Hellfire and Massy’s Wood are important amenities and we must protect them from commercial development.

We hope that people and organizations from around the county and beyond will rally quickly to support our cause. To this end we would ask that you please once again stand with us and give whatever help and support that you can.

All contributions are most welcome, whether you can give €10, €50, €100 or whatever you can afford. We are most grateful to all who have donated in the past and are donating again now.

Please note all funds raised will be used to support our legal challenge/Judicial Review on the 8th June, 2021.


https://www.facebook.com/SavetheHellfire/

RulesOfNature

What exactly are they protesting against?

podgeandrodge

I am NOT connected with the group, but have supported.



SOUTH DUBLIN COUNTY COUNCIL WANTS TO SPEND OVER €22 MILLION TO TRANSFORM MASSY’S ESTATE AND THE HELLFIRE CLUB INTO A MAJOR TOURIST ATTRACTION ​
Friends of Massy’s Wood, Residents Associations and Community Groups have joined forces to protect this natural wilderness from inappropriate development. We need your support to maintain the natural integrity of the landscape and protect the environment from commercial exploitation.

As part of the SDCC plan, they intend to construct a large “interpretive centre” and a sky-bridge that extends over the road between the two grounds. The scale of this development can only have a negative impact on what is already a very fragile environment.

We believe that this proposal by South Dublin County Council will have a catastrophic impact upon an already beautiful and natural amenity and its surrounding environs for the following reasons:
Approximately the size of a shopping centre; catering for 300,000 visitors per annum and associated car parking.
Interpretive Centre
This narrow rural road cannot accommodate existing traffic volumes. Road capacity, access, visibility and effects on pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders and wildlife are being ignored.
Road Safety
Cable Car and Tree Top Footbridge
Environment and Wildlife
Admission Charges
Archaelogy
These grounds are a natural wilderness not a theme park.
The development will change forever this valuable amenity, environment and fragile ecosystem. This wilderness is a rich and diverse habitat and is home to many wildlife species including the rare red squirrel, brown hare and woodpeckers etc.
This is a Neolithic landscape of huge national and international importance. It has not been fully investigated. This rush to development can only result in obliterating potential treasures. According to Abarta Heritage, who carried out the recent excavations on Montpelier Hill, “there is much more to be discovered about the site.
This natural wilderness, which is enjoyed by all, will no longer be free.

corner of hells

RulesOfNature wrote: »

What exactly are they protesting against?

Satan wants his gaff back.

podgeandrodge

corner of hells wrote: »

Satan wants his gaff back.

Well put

FFVII

Meh, theirs to many people. They have to go somewhere.

At this stage every road, house and development should be reconsidered but apparently we need 18,000 houses a year. Apparently we needed 70,000 in 2007. Spoofers. Keep on building til theirs not a blade of grass left i say.

Mo money mo power.

This is probably asking a lot, but maybe there is a link to some campaign explaining the significance of the Hellfire Club?

Why is it worth preserving?

The grounds specificed in the post by podgeandrodge (above) apply to any vacant land mass, anywhere. It isn't an area of any particular beauty, the history of the Hellfire isn't particularly interesting. We should probably build houses.

tDw6u1bj

The plans looks great and it's a great thing to have so close to the city.

We're well short on amenities and how can we expect to change that if selfish cretins try to stop anything and everything

Alun

The Hellfire club building and the area around it may be many things but a "natural wilderness" it isn't.

Car99

The tourism industry loves these type of amenities, another place for the tour buses to stop. Look st cliffs of moher visitor centre a big massive car park in a previously unspoilt part of the country. Bar adding a few summer jobs to the country it adds nothing .

tDw6u1bj

Car99 wrote: »

Bar adding a few summer jobs to the country it adds nothing .

It's also something for you an me to do.

EmmetSpiceland

A Lamb Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is probably asking a lot, but maybe there is a link to some campaign explaining the significance of the Hellfire Club?

Why is it worth preserving?

The grounds specificed in the post by podgeandrodge (above) apply to any vacant land mass, anywhere. It isn't an area of any particular beauty, the history of the Hellfire isn't particularly interesting. We should probably build houses.

There’s a Neolithic burial site up there so it would be nice if that could be “protected”.

It’s a nice spot for a walk or a cycle. There has to be other places with less of an “impact” they could put an estate, or apartments, on.

hmmm

I don't agree with this campaign. This is a hugely popular outdoor attraction for families within easy reach of Dublin, and the current infrastructure is inadequate and dangerous (families walking along a busy road). This needs to be improved, and shouldn't be restricted to the privileged few - if anything the pandemic should have shown us how important our outdoor spaces are, and how access needs to be improved.

I don't think there is a need for any sort of interpretative centre type arrangement, but that minor quibble is not sufficient in my opinion for me to oppose the development.

podgeandrodge

A Lamb Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is probably asking a lot, but maybe there is a link to some campaign explaining the significance of the Hellfire Club?

Why is it worth preserving?

The grounds specificed in the post by podgeandrodge (above) apply to any vacant land mass, anywhere. It isn't an area of any particular beauty, the history of the Hellfire isn't particularly interesting. We should probably build houses.

Good view if you lived there!

https://www.abartaheritage.ie/hellfire-club-archaeological-project/hellfire-club-history/

https://evoke.ie/2020/10/09/life-style/travelnews/the-chilling-true-story-behind-the-infamous-irish-hellfire-club

salmocab

hmmm wrote: »

I don't agree with this campaign. This is a hugely popular outdoor attraction for families within easy reach of Dublin, and the current infrastructure is inadequate and dangerous (families walking along a busy road). This needs to be improved, and shouldn't be restricted to the privileged few - if anything the pandemic should have shown us how important our outdoor spaces are, and how access needs to be improved.

I don't think there is a need for any sort of interpretative centre type arrangement, but that minor quibble is not sufficient in my opinion for me to oppose the development.

Yeah I’m broadly with you on this, I live quite close to the Dublin mountains and use 3 rock Tibradden etc regularly, the crowds have increased significantly over the last 18 months and hopefully people keep using these amenities when things are back to normal, however the parking is rammed and busy forests make it difficult to nip behind a tree for a wee.

SteM

I've been following this bunch on twitter for ages but just can't figure them out. On beautiful sunny days when the place is busy they tweet about people parking badly on the roads around Masseys Wood but then they tweet that they're totally against the new car park that is to be built at the Hellfire Club.

The Dublin mountains could be such a great public resource but this group seems to want to keep it exactly as it is which isn't feasible imo.

The Echo does a podcast called Local Voices and covered this in episode 10,worth a listen for anyone interested.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1050919/4506122-local-voices-010-hellfire-club-visitor-centre.mp3?blob_id=17693789

Ash.J.Williams

A Lamb Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is probably asking a lot, but maybe there is a link to some campaign explaining the significance of the Hellfire Club?

Why is it worth preserving?

The grounds specificed in the post by podgeandrodge (above) apply to any vacant land mass, anywhere. It isn't an area of any particular beauty, the history of the Hellfire isn't particularly interesting. We should probably build houses.

Build on mountpellier?

TefalBrain

salmocab wrote: »

Yeah I’m broadly with you on this, I live quite close to the Dublin mountains and use 3 rock Tibradden etc regularly, the crowds have increased significantly over the last 18 months and hopefully people keep using these amenities when things are back to normal, however the parking is rammed and busy forests make it difficult to nip behind a tree for a wee.

Ah I loved the walk up to 3 rock and fairy castle used it since the late 80's as a young fella but it's become ridiculous now with mountain bikers, coffee shops and families so I found a more peaceful route I now take to relax.

Can't begrudge people wanting to get outdoors but I go up the mountains to get away from the daily hum drum not to be part of it.

buried

The Neolithic landscape? Sure the Neolithic cairn was levelled by the gang that built the hunting lodge and used the stones for the building. The landscape is already ruined.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

There’s a Neolithic burial site up there so it would be nice if that could be “protected”.

How big is it?

Fence that bit off.

I saw this area once. I am no expert on natural biology or local heritage, but it wouldn't strike someone as being particularly special. Arrange the diggers. People need a place to live.

podgeandrodge

For me, I supported it because after being th re many times as a child growing up, the place has a deserted feel to it, which added to the magic as a kid.

Seeing any interpretative centre nearby would damage that imo.

As for house building, that will never happen on this land, not relevant.

silliussoddius

What’s to interpret up there? As far as I know ithe Hellfire Club is one of those stories that improve with age.

EmmetSpiceland

A Lamb Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How big is it?

Fence that bit off.

I saw this area once. I am no expert on natural biology or local heritage, but it wouldn't strike someone as being particularly special. Arrange the diggers. People need a place to live.

Not sure how big it is underground, most of the stones were used in the construction of the house, itself.

It’s a scenic enough space, aside from improved facilities and access I’m not sure what else I’d be putting up there. I remember at one point there was talk of a cable car and a bizarre “centre” going up.

RulesOfNature

I've been to the hellfire club many times. Theres really not much to it. Would love to see some amenities, businesses, bars, hotels, inns etc to spruce up the place though.

whisky_galore

I dont see why everything in the countryside has to be developed into yet another playground for humans, the coach parks, interpretive centres and an obligatory gift shop.
Natural attractions all over the world pre covid have been suffering from over tourism, we need to restrict numbers, not pile them in.

hmmm

whisky_galore wrote: »

I dont see why everything in the countryside has to be developed into yet another playground for humans, the coach parks, interpretive centres and an obligatory gift shop.
Natural attractions all over the world pre covid have been suffering from over tourism, we need to restrict numbers, not pile them in.

A place like this in the Dublin mountains is going to be popular and a big draw, and a lot of good work has been done to enhance the trails without the corresponding infrastructure being provided. It's already dangerously packed, and restricting access and expecting it to remain some sort of rural idyll for the few who can access it is selfish and unrealistic in my opinion.

silliussoddius

silliussoddius wrote: »

What’s to interpret up there? As far as I know ithe Hellfire Club is one of those stories that improve with age.

It is of mild historical interest, and the site is moderately handsome; but I suppose the objection is that if you are imposing tourism activity into the area, road-building and residential construction will inevitably follow. People don't want those things in their back yards.

I doubt the residents are really objecting to the interpretative centre in its own right, but they are worried about the disturbance: utilities, services (like hospitality) and greater population density.

Residents, everywhere, want to be left alone, and that's understandable.
But it's not particularly realistic, when you live on the fringes of a growing city that is lacking in recreation.

Gatling

The Neolithic tomb is quite small it's beside the actual building ,it was recently investigated by an archaeological team ,
From what I remember the new car park and visitors center will be further down the mountain and not actually at the hellfire club ,

Quantum Erasure

salmocab

TefalBrain wrote: »

Ah I loved the walk up to 3 rock and fairy castle used it since the late 80's as a young fella but it's become ridiculous now with mountain bikers, coffee shops and families so I found a more peaceful route I now take to relax.

Can't begrudge people wanting to get outdoors but I go up the mountains to get away from the daily hum drum not to be part of it.

In an ideal
World I’d always have these places to myself alright but in the real world if they are going to be busy I’d prefer they had some amenities.

nullzero

Went up that direction on Patrick's day 2020 just before lockdown started, what an absolute disaster it was, cars everywhere people losing their cool with each other etc...
Great day out with the kids, we got to sit in traffic watching people shouting at each other for a good hour before we went home having done nothing (we had only popped out for a drive, not a walk as the pandemic was on the doorstep at that point).

It's nice to try to keep things as they have been in the past but if that general area can be improved by the proposed redevelopment it's hard to argue against it.

The one issue with building new amenities in an area like that is the access to and from said amenities. Those roads are seriously unprepared for even larger crowds, perhaps upgrades of that nature are part of the plans.

tDw6u1bj

whisky_galore wrote: »

I dont see why everything in the countryside has to be developed into yet another playground for humans, the coach parks, interpretive centres and an obligatory gift shop.
Natural attractions all over the world pre covid have been suffering from over tourism, we need to restrict numbers, not pile them in.

It's a teeny-tiny corner of an entire mountain range.

It's hardly a playground, there's some hiking trails and not a lot else in terms of amenities. Almost nothing for somewhere that's so close to a city.

It can hardly "suffer from over-tourism" the place is already destroyed by grazing

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Bulldoze it. And Newgrange too, whilst we’re on the subject. There’s a housing shortage, and a few high rise apartments on top of Montpelier Hill would absolutely sell like hot cakes.

youcancallmeal

They really messed up when they didn't just buy Orlagh House below the Hellfire club and turn that into a ready made interpretive center. Sure they could even buy it now for more than 2.85m and still would be cheaper than the 20+m proposed development. Anyway I live right at the foot of Montpellier hill and I don't oppose the center simply because the objections to it are pretty vague and entirely unconvincing, what does catastrophic effect even mean, is the entire area going to turn into a dead wasteland if this center is developed!?

hmmm

youcancallmeal wrote: »

They really messed up when they didn't just buy Orlagh House below the Hellfire club and turn that into a ready made interpretive center. Sure they could even buy it now for more than 2.85m and still would be cheaper than the 20+m proposed development. Anyway I live right at the foot of Montpellier hill and I don't oppose the center simply because the objections to it are pretty vague and entirely unconvincing, what does catastrophic effect even mean, is the entire area going to turn into a dead wasteland if this center is developed!?

Wow, that would have been an amazing gateway and park into the whole mountains. Agree that was a missed opportunity.

I think the big gap myself is a safe walking and cycling path up to the Hellfire from lower down the hill. I know some people are happy to cycle along that road, but I wouldn't bring my family along it - quite aside from the steepness, the cars are too fast and the road is too narrow. I definitely wouldn't walk it. It's crying out for an offroad greenway which could take an awful lot of pressure off parking further up next to Masseys.

branie2

That place is cursed

SteM

hmmm wrote: »

Wow, that would have been an amazing gateway and park into the whole mountains. Agree that was a missed opportunity.

I think the big gap myself is a safe walking and cycling path up to the Hellfire from lower down the hill. I know some people are happy to cycle along that road, but I wouldn't bring my family along it - quite aside from the steepness, the cars are too fast and the road is too narrow. I definitely wouldn't walk it. It's crying out for an offroad greenway which could take an awful lot of pressure off parking further up next to Masseys.

We were driving down a few Saturdays ago and there were 3 blokes standing on the edge of a ditch trying to keep our of the way of passing cars. They looked totally freaked, like they didn't know what they'd gotten themselves into. No way I would walk up there either.