Management fees in housing estate

davo2001

Hi,

General query. We own our house in a private estate of around 50 detected house, no council houses (if that makes any difference) in North Tipperary, built in the 1990's.

When we moved in 2 years ago we were asked to pay €550 towards the maintenance of the estate, didn't think much of it at the time.

We got the email a few weeks ago about the yearly fee and it got me thinking.

All it seems to pay for is grass cutting and (i assume) street lighting. The roads in the estate are in a bad state of disrepair with a good few pot holes.

So it would seem that "the estate" is paying nearly 30K per year for grass cutting and lighting?! Seems excessive.

What do other people pay for their management fees?

davo2001

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi,

General query. We own our house in a private estate of around 50 detected house, no council houses (if that makes any difference) in North Tipperary, built in the 1990's.

When we moved in 2 years ago we were asked to pay €550 towards the maintenance of the estate, didn't think much of it at the time.

We got the email a few weeks ago about the yearly fee and it got me thinking.

All it seems to pay for is grass cutting and (i assume) street lighting. The roads in the estate are in a bad state of disrepair with a good few pot holes.

So it would seem that "the estate" is paying nearly 30K per year for grass cutting and lighting?! Seems excessive.

What do other people pay for their management fees?

Firstly, as with all queries about management fees, did you attend the AGM? All income/expenditure of the MC is outlined during meeting.

Secondly, under the MUD Act, MCs are required to have a sinking fund in place for unexpected expenses. Chances are you are paying into this.

Contact the Directors of the MC and ask them for minutes of last meeting and copy of accounts. That will tell you where your money is going.

L1011

As above, you can see the accounts.

Grass cutting is likely to cost a fair few thousand alone - the cost doesn't scale precisely with the amount of space.

Insurance is probably going to eat up another four figure sum.

Mrs OBumble

Are you on town water and sewerage systems

Who's liable if someone trips and hurts themselves in a common area space?

Fils

Are the board of the management company drawing a wage? €550 is excessive unless you have acres of communal lawn.
As it’s 1990’s surely the council has taken it over so no public lighting maintenance.

Fils

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are you on town water and sewerage systems

Who's liable if someone trips and hurts themselves in a common area space?

Public liability is not that expensive.

L1011

Fils wrote: »

Are the board of the management company drawing a wage? €550 is excessive unless you have acres of communal lawn.
As it’s 1990’s surely the council has taken it over so no public lighting maintenance.

The council will not have taken lighting in charge in an estate with a management company. This is not a residents association grass cutting collection, the house owners own the estate grounds collectively

Fils wrote: »

Public liability is not that expensive.

PL for a residents association with no claims history is in the low hundreds - but this is going to have significantly more scope for claims.

FromADistance

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi,

General query. We own our house in a private estate of around 50 detected house, no council houses (if that makes any difference) in North Tipperary, built in the 1990's.

When we moved in 2 years ago we were asked to pay €550 towards the maintenance of the estate, didn't think much of it at the time.

We got the email a few weeks ago about the yearly fee and it got me thinking.

All it seems to pay for is grass cutting and (i assume) street lighting. The roads in the estate are in a bad state of disrepair with a good few pot holes.

So it would seem that "the estate" is paying nearly 30K per year for grass cutting and lighting?! Seems excessive.

What do other people pay for their management fees?

How long is a piece of string? Some apartment owners could pay 2-3k per annum in Dublin but it really does depend. And that fee could cover a multitude of things.

However, your solicitor should have advised you of the name of the management company as you're entitled to a share in the management company. The management company also needs to call an annual AGM to discuss matters pertaining to the development, elect directors and so on. 30k p.a to do the items listed seems excessive but I don't know what else the fee covers and that's assumes everyone is paying the fee. You really need to take all this up with the management company.

Fils

L1011 wrote: »

The council will not have taken lighting in charge in an estate with a management company. This is not a residents association grass cutting collection, the house owners own the estate grounds collectively



PL for a residents association with no claims history is in the low hundreds - but this is going to have significantly more scope for claims.

Different counties different rules. I’m knowledgable on what public liability costs thanks.

Fils

Fils wrote: »

Different counties different rules. I’m knowledgable on what public liability costs thanks.

How much does my MC pay?

dublin49

didnt think housing estates had management fees? what common areas do houses have?in a previous house which was new it took awhile for the council to take over so residents cut grass ourselves in the little park adjacent to us but there was never any question of fees.

L1011

dublin49 wrote: »

didnt think housing estates had management fees? what common areas do houses have?in a previous house which was new it took awhile for the council to take over so residents cut grass ourselves in the little park adjacent to us but there was never any question of fees.

Most don't. Some do.

Some councils actively encouraged it, as it reduced potential future costs for them; some developers did it to try create an air of exclusivity, or so a development could be gated.

Some councils will actively assist in dissolving them and taking over the common areas - has been done in a few estates in Kildare anyway - if owners wish that to happen.


In nearly all areas, when the council takes over it still doesn't cut the grass - or does it once a year (and nearly always in lovely branded vehicles just when you're trying to convince some reluctant payer that they don't cut it!)

jrosen

We have resident fees. We pay 200 per house per year. Previous house it was 120 per house but there were more houses. Grass cutting is covered and any new shrubs that may be needed. There is a intended surplus which they use for easter egg hunts/santa visits etc, clean up days, ordering additional plants and bark.

Is there a large amount of green space?

Surely your property tax is there to cover road/footpath repair? Street lighting? We have never paid for street lighting.

Bicyclette

L1011 wrote: »

Most don't. Some do.


In nearly all areas, when the council takes over it still doesn't cut the grass - or does it once a year (and nearly always in lovely branded vehicles just when you're trying to convince some reluctant payer that they don't cut it!)

y

We are in Limerick City and the council, finally, took over our estate a few years ago. They mow the grass in the green areas reasonably regularly. Before we were taken over, we used to pay about €50 per year per house for private contractors.

To me, the figures look excessive. I'd be asking to see the accounts and joining the committee. The figure you are paying is probably in excess of or pretty close to your LPT charges.

Just to add that our street lighting was always covered by the council. We've been living here since before the estate was finished and there was always public lighting.

dublin49

i think there is a difference between management fees that generally apply to apartments and are a legal requirement and resident fees that are voluntary and generally arranged to improve the look of the estate by a group of residents.There was a discussion on here before about an ad hoc group asking for silly money for the up keep of the estate and this may be similiar.I would certainly be asking some questions before handing over that lump of money for grass cutting.

davo2001

Thanks all, there was no AGM last year due to Covid.
I'll request to have a look at the accounts. The green areas are not that large, it takes a guy on a ride on around an hour, maybe 2 every 2 weeks to do the grass cutting.

I could understand the cost if it was apartments as this would cover bins and common areas etc, but it's not, it's all detacted houses.

It's towns water.

The board don't draw a wage (as far as i know).

I was just wondering what other people in a similar situation pay?

dublin49

davo2001 wrote: »

Thanks all, there was no AGM last year due to Covid.
I'll request to have a look at the accounts. The green areas are not that large, it takes a guy on a ride on around an hour, maybe 2 every 2 weeks to do the grass cutting.

I could understand the cost if it was apartments as this would cover bins and common areas etc, but it's not, it's all detacted houses.

It's towns water.

The board don't draw a wage (as far as i know).

I was just wondering what other people in a similar situation pay?

my understanding is the big cost component of management fees would be insurance and maintenance of say lifts,hallways etc,none of which would apply to a house holder.

Stratvs

Is there an actual Management Company (company limited by guarantee usually) in place here with each householder a member and a board of directors with accounts filed with the CRO. Or is this a simple association of householders with a committee.

Our estate has approx 30 houses early 1990 construction. Mains water and sewage. Public lighting. Only payment to residents assn is around €60-70 pa (with oap discount also) for maintenance of the green, etc. It’s sufficient and there’s always a surplus as I understand. The council do occasional sweep through with their road cleaner but otherwise the householders generally keep areas around their own properties free of weeds, litter etc.

A charge of >500 pa sounds an awful lot to me. A glance at the accounts would definitely be in order.

Ace2007

davo2001 wrote: »

Thanks all, there was no AGM last year due to Covid.

I have no input to help, but that sounds like a cop out - there is Zoom and all sorts of other meeting apps that they could have used.

If you said your weren't paying your annual fee due to Covid - i doubt that would wash.

Caranica

davo2001 wrote: »

Thanks all, there was no AGM last year due to Covid.
I'll request to have a look at the accounts. The green areas are not that large, it takes a guy on a ride on around an hour, maybe 2 every 2 weeks to do the grass cutting.

I could understand the cost if it was apartments as this would cover bins and common areas etc, but it's not, it's all detacted houses.

It's towns water.

The board don't draw a wage (as far as i know).

I was just wondering what other people in a similar situation pay?

Legislation was brought in to allow online AGMs last year, your management company was legally required to hold theirs by year end.

Insurance, landscaping, street lighting, repairs, road maintenance, water infrastructure, sinking fund could all be budget items. I know in our development we had to reinstate the car park surface, and we had several burst ferrules underground.

Check out the most recent accounts filed with the CRO for a small fee. You'll see where the fees are being spent. Comparing management fees is generally a pointless exercise, you're never comparing identical situations

Alexa111

Firstly, as with all queries about management fees, did you attend the AGM? All income/expenditure of the MC is outlined during meeting.

Secondly, under the MUD Act, MCs are required to have a sinking fund in place for unexpected expenses. Chances are you are paying into this.

Contact the Directors of the MC and ask them for minutes of last meeting and copy of accounts. That will tell you where your money is going.

deise121

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Who's liable if someone trips and hurts themselves in a common area space?

can't believe this is even a question. the american claim culture is too much for me to deal with sometimes

jimmycrackcorm

davo2001 wrote: »

When we moved in 2 years ago we were asked to pay €550 towards the maintenance of the estate, didn't think much of it at the time.

We got the email a few weeks ago about the yearly fee and it got me thinking.

All it seems to pay for is grass cutting and (i assume) street lighting. The roads in the estate are in a bad state of disrepair with a good few pot holes.

So it would seem that "the estate" is paying nearly 30K per year for grass cutting and lighting?! Seems excessive.

What do other people pay for their management fees?

It's probably that amount because only a few suckers are paying it.
I wouldn't pay unless I could determine if there is a legal management company for the estate and the accounts for such. If there was then I'd have thought that your solicitor would have drawn attention to this when purchasing.